119 replies to this topic

[SlimJim22]

Emma_Acid, on 22 March 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

Man alive, this things really grown legs.

The Great Rift has nothing to do with earth. Its 300 light years away and is a bunch of huge gas clouds. We have no "relation" to it, other than the massive distance, so its completely irrelevant.

Yes it can be ruled out - that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I think Matt mentioned sacrifice in relation to the Maya as it was the Maya calendar which is the source of all this silliness.

Such as?

Galaxies don't "shift slightly". They are all moving through space at tremendous speeds.

Its worse than "conjecture", its pure fiction.

Because this sort of BS is damaging. It's damaging to people's ability to sort out fact from fiction, to be able to think critically, and don't even get me started on subjects like little girls committing suicide because they think the world will end in 2012.

Nope, not at all. A person is clever, but people are stupid - and simply because a lot of people buy into it doesn't make it any less BS. In the 17th century, much of the population of Europe thought that the plague was spread by Jews. Does this suddenly have any credence to it, just because a lot of people bought into it?

We aren't "evolving" to be healthy, sustainable, technological or spiritual. Evolution has nothing to do with it.

I'm honoured by your presence Emma.

Is a gas cloud the same as a nebulous? There is a chance that new wave frequencies could be projected or something else that I am equally failing to understand. I don't know what will happen and the truth is neither do you, so how can you say it is irrelevant or whatever?

Surely the various religious traditions could be seen as substantial evidence for this.

Yes. We started about the Mayan calendar that I asserted was likely brought by the Olmecs and then Matt started using the old psuedo skeptic argument of them being backward savges that made sacrifices and this is where we will return if you listen to the likes of me, sorta thing. The fact is that the Maya's probably resorted to sacrifice in greater numbers when the climate changed and they suffered drought. The Aztecs were far more into sacrifice so I don't think bringing sacrifice into a discussion about a calendar has any merit.

In another thread I am trying to learn about nanoparticles, this is just one example, there are others.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking a shift in space as you say galaxies are constantly moving. What I meant was a shift in frequency of vibration. Does that help?

Art mirrors reality.

You don't seem to be getting me at all. I am saying it could be the start of a new and positive age so why would people think the world will end. That is what the media is putting out there not the sort of stuff I have reffered to.


People are stupid if they cannot recognize the changes taking place all around them.

By Matt's definition of evoltuion it was centred around behaviour, that is why I explained how our behaviour is adapting to our changing environment. It will not change overnight as you know that is not how evolution works. It will take centuries through natural selection but who will be the ones most suited to the future and best able to thrive. I reckon they will be the people who are more healthy, who produce the least waste, use the most advanced technology and have a spiritual side that makes them have a strong social conscience and live moral lives with little prejudice.

That's just my view of the possible Utopia.

Search, I recall our conversation all to clearly. You drew my attention to Jose Arguelles. I will not be parting with any cash and you don't need to to educated yourself on this subject. I could provide a good link but it's not really worth it, is it? I respect your opinion greatly and I am not convinced one way or the other but I will continue to research ALL the possibilities and make connections where possible.

[bigdaddyinge]

first thing i gotta say is "wow", emma. that is about as direct and no-nonsense a reply as you can give. gotta love it!   this whole thing with 2012 is just grand scale fear-mongering. will something happen on dec. 21 2012? who knows. maybe. maybe not. there is not a single shred of evidence that points to that date having more of a chance of catastrophe than next wednesday. or two months from now. or any other point in time that anyone can "predict". i personally think that dec. 21, 2012 WILL bring on something..... that being dec. 22nd! when nothing happens, these 2012 threads will just be replaced with the next END OF THE WORLD prophesies that become en vogue. do all you people not remember june 6, 2006? or jan 1, 2000? or any of the other countless, ridiculously prophesized END OF THE WORLD dates? well, as far as i see, hasn't happened yet, and probably won't in 2012 just because the mayan calendar makers ran out of rock.

[SlimJim22]

bigdaddyinge, on 22 March 2010 - 06:54 PM, said:

first thing i gotta say is "wow", emma. that is about as direct and no-nonsense a reply as you can give. gotta love it!   this whole thing with 2012 is just grand scale fear-mongering. will something happen on dec. 21 2012? who knows. maybe. maybe not. there is not a single shred of evidence that points to that date having more of a chance of catastrophe than next wednesday. or two months from now. or any other point in time that anyone can "predict". i personally think that dec. 21, 2012 WILL bring on something..... that being dec. 22nd! when nothing happens, these 2012 threads will just be replaced with the next END OF THE WORLD prophesies that become en vogue. do all you people not remember june 6, 2006? or jan 1, 2000? or any of the other countless, ridiculously prophesized END OF THE WORLD dates? well, as far as i see, hasn't happened yet, and probably won't in 2012 just because the mayan calendar makers ran out of rock.

What's with the end of the world stuff? You only ever here that from the skeptics trying to debunk the legitimacy of the new age theory because they can't accept atrology as having any influence on man. Try this link it is pretty easy to get.

http://www.13moon.co...hecy page.htm#5

[bigdaddyinge]

SlimJim22, on 22 March 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

What's with the end of the world stuff? You only ever here that from the skeptics trying to debunk the legitimacy of the new age theory because they can't accept atrology as having any influence on man. Try this link it is pretty easy to get.

http://www.13moon.co...hecy page.htm#5

ok. here's a quote from sciencedaily.com....

Quote

The Mayan calendar was designed to be cyclical, so the fact that the long count comes to an end in December 2012 is really of no consequence, according to Martin. Simply, it is the end of great calendar cycle in Mayan society, much like our modern society celebrated the new Millennium. It does not mean that the "world will end." In fact, the Mayan calendar does not end then and there is no evidence to suggest that the Mayans -- or anyone for that matter -- has knowledge for the world's demise.

and i'll see your link and raise you another....mayan calender

[Mattshark]

SlimJim22, on 22 March 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

What's with the end of the world stuff? You only ever here that from the skeptics trying to debunk the legitimacy of the new age theory because they can't accept atrology as having any influence on man. Try this link it is pretty easy to get.

http://www.13moon.co...hecy page.htm#5

That is because there is no evidence to suggest stuff, and since new agers tend to be no better than creationists in terms of academic fraud and pseudo-science and have just as much evidence, why should it be accepted?

[bigdaddyinge]

Mattshark, on 22 March 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

That is because there is no evidence to suggest stuff, and since new agers tend to be no better than creationists in terms of academic fraud and pseudo-science and have just as much evidence, why should it be accepted?

HERE! HERE!

[SlimJim22]

Mattshark, on 22 March 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

That is because there is no evidence to suggest stuff, and since new agers tend to be no better than creationists in terms of academic fraud and pseudo-science and have just as much evidence, why should it be accepted?

You need not accept it and neither does anyone else who doesn't want to. It's alright to consider and respect the work being done in this field. The problem is that the message you'd like people to believe is that, we think 2012 is the END!!
That isn't gonna happen because we all know it is a beginning. All the 2012 prophecy will be over, no more doomsday... for a while at least. However, more and more people will be getting in tune with the spiritual side of existence and reaping the benefits of a change if lifestyle. If organized religion became more moderate and respectful the world could become a really good place naturally, simply by applying science in the right way where ever it was needed. Sadly, differences will be used as an excuse to carve up the worlds resources and hand control to the elite. That's what I forsee and it's no prophecy just common sense observations of how the world is going.

[Mattshark]

SlimJim22, on 22 March 2010 - 10:15 PM, said:

You need not accept it and neither does anyone else who doesn't want to. It's alright to consider and respect the work being done in this field. The problem is that the message you'd like people to believe is that, we think 2012 is the END!!
That isn't gonna happen because we all know it is a beginning. All the 2012 prophecy will be over, no more doomsday... for a while at least. However, more and more people will be getting in tune with the spiritual side of existence and reaping the benefits of a change if lifestyle. If organized religion became more moderate and respectful the world could become a really good place naturally, simply by applying science in the right way where ever it was needed. Sadly, differences will be used as an excuse to carve up the worlds resources and hand control to the elite. That's what I forsee and it's no prophecy just common sense observations of how the world is going.

Sorry mate, but the stuff people are coming out with doesn't deserve respect, it is not people spending years studying hard on science and history, working so many hour for limited pay and then some *insert expletive* sat on his bum just decides something sounds good and cool and feels it deserves respect? Or someone trying to make money out the naive? No, they don't and it is outright insulting to the people who work there arses off to think that these new idiots preaching crap and lies have opinions that are worth as much. Not all opinions are equal.

[bigdaddyinge]

SlimJim22, on 22 March 2010 - 10:15 PM, said:

You need not accept it and neither does anyone else who doesn't want to. It's alright to consider and respect the work being done in this field. The problem is that the message you'd like people to believe is that, we think 2012 is the END!!
That isn't gonna happen because we all know it is a beginning. All the 2012 prophecy will be over, no more doomsday... for a while at least. However, more and more people will be getting in tune with the spiritual side of existence and reaping the benefits of a change if lifestyle. If organized religion became more moderate and respectful the world could become a really good place naturally, simply by applying science in the right way where ever it was needed. Sadly, differences will be used as an excuse to carve up the worlds resources and hand control to the elite. That's what I forsee and it's no prophecy just common sense observations of how the world is going.

no, it isn't the end. nor is it the beginning of anything. 2012 will end up being nothing but the year between 2011 and 2013. no sudden mass enlightenment. no psychic transformations. no rise of superior, spiritually advanced humans or other beings. no return of annuki from nibiru. no end of the world. no coming of christ. no mass catastrophies or no holocaustic monstrocities. no beings of light. no galactic miracles caused from planetary alignment. there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTING ANY OF THIS. just mass hysteria and grossly unwarranted speculation. oh, and lots of fear mongering. but hey, what do i and millions of other unenlightened folks know anyway?

[Marby]

Throughout history, people have decided whether it be because of religion, mysticism, or alleged prophecy, that either the end is coming, a new beginning is coming, that there will be some great shift in human consciousness, you name it. Not once has this panned out, and for good reason - that's not how the world works. People like to read into things, create patterns, and feel as though they have some control over the future. The control we have over the future is minimal at best.

The Mayan thing is particularly ridiculous because it's been so badly misinterpreted and so badly misused with so many "meanings" attached to it that it boggles the mind. Yet there is nothing to suggest that anything will happen or that the Mayans had some special knowledge that the rest of humanity doesn't. Nothing to see here. The calendar ended. A calendar, by the way, that no one has cared about or used since the Mayans were using it.

We've had the astrology talk before, but I will reiterate here. Astrology is pretty much bunk. It's not even credible as a pseudo-science. I've said this several times before, but you can apply any astrological reading to any random person and it will somehow apply because it's purposely vague. Even on the larger scale, when people claim that this or that has happened because it's the Age of Aquarius or whatever, it's because people cherry pick what they think fits. World events are not affected by astrology. Individuals are not affected by astrology. It doesn't hold up to close scrutiny at all.

[SlimJim22]

Mattshark, on 22 March 2010 - 11:50 PM, said:

Sorry mate, but the stuff people are coming out with doesn't deserve respect, it is not people spending years studying hard on science and history, working so many hour for limited pay and then some *insert expletive* sat on his bum just decides something sounds good and cool and feels it deserves respect? Or someone trying to make money out the naive? No, they don't and it is outright insulting to the people who work there arses off to think that these new idiots preaching crap and lies have opinions that are worth as much. Not all opinions are equal.

I am sensing a lot of negativity   Seriously though, I agree it is the scientists who do the hard work and provide legitamacy to theories. This is the way it should remain but science itself must progress, I think it would be most fitting if religion and spirituality was broken down and accepted as the effect of subtle energies between cosmos and man. We are just made of a load of chemical elements and amino acids and proteins so imo we are effected by all things in our environment. It is just so subtle that it is virtually unrecognizable. I don't like charalatans and won't fork out money on a whim when some writer says this or that. I won't discard what they say either though, i take value where I can and integrate it into a way that I can make practical improvements. I am extremely skeptical of the new age but some parts of it have real  resonance for me. The other person who spoke about resonance at length was Tesla and he was a scientist but one who understood the subtle enrgy fields that have now been rediscovered and confirmed by the latest science.

[SlimJim22]

bigdaddyinge, on 23 March 2010 - 09:12 AM, said:

no, it isn't the end. nor is it the beginning of anything. 2012 will end up being nothing but the year between 2011 and 2013. no sudden mass enlightenment. no psychic transformations. no rise of superior, spiritually advanced humans or other beings. no return of annuki from nibiru. no end of the world. no coming of christ. no mass catastrophies or no holocaustic monstrocities. no beings of light. no galactic miracles caused from planetary alignment. there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTING ANY OF THIS. just mass hysteria and grossly unwarranted speculation. oh, and lots of fear mongering. but hey, what do i and millions of other unenlightened folks know anyway?

You sound more crazy than the people making all the doomsday prophecy. Are you psychic? Can you see the future? No, then you do not know what will happen and to continue claiming you do only affirms the stupidity inherent in the pseudoskeptic viewpoint.

One thing for certain that is schedule for 21/12/2012 is Swan Sat going online. I don't know for sure if this is true or if it another ploy but considering my post to Matt and my other research I find this extremely significant. Do you watch Lost?

There is evidence supporting it but the establishment chooses to discredit or ignore entirely the basis of these claims. What would be needed to convince you that there was a slim chance that it is not all BS but a return to knowledge that we have forgotten through our separation from our environment?

Do you like the world you live in? Could it be improved? How?

The future is not written, we are the creators of our own world, or we should be at least.

[SlimJim22]

Marby, on 23 March 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

Throughout history, people have decided whether it be because of religion, mysticism, or alleged prophecy, that either the end is coming, a new beginning is coming, that there will be some great shift in human consciousness, you name it. Not once has this panned out, and for good reason - that's not how the world works. People like to read into things, create patterns, and feel as though they have some control over the future. The control we have over the future is minimal at best.

The Mayan thing is particularly ridiculous because it's been so badly misinterpreted and so badly misused with so many "meanings" attached to it that it boggles the mind. Yet there is nothing to suggest that anything will happen or that the Mayans had some special knowledge that the rest of humanity doesn't. Nothing to see here. The calendar ended. A calendar, by the way, that no one has cared about or used since the Mayans were using it.

We've had the astrology talk before, but I will reiterate here. Astrology is pretty much bunk. It's not even credible as a pseudo-science. I've said this several times before, but you can apply any astrological reading to any random person and it will somehow apply because it's purposely vague. Even on the larger scale, when people claim that this or that has happened because it's the Age of Aquarius or whatever, it's because people cherry pick what they think fits. World events are not affected by astrology. Individuals are not affected by astrology. It doesn't hold up to close scrutiny at all.

Consciousness has progressed through ages, even in the recent past we have moved from a analogue into a digital age. Our technology as I have said is an extension of man. The wheel, the spiral drill, metalurgy, all these things came at the right point in time for us to excel and grow as a species. It is just natural selection, we have adapted greater cognition and along with our opposable thumbs we can dominate our environment through cooperation.

I love it that our technology now is based on silicone and crystals and in the not too distant future will be cenred around nanoparticles. From what I understand of them thye are not even there half the time. Spooky. It all fits it with the Aquarian age for me at least but only time will tell. It may or maynot be appreciated with hindsight if there was any truth to it or mankind could remain very much dviided as we are now. I respect the view of all skeptics as they provide a valueable element for our overall understanding. I just hope they will not be too proud to compromise if the time is right.

on the subject of calendars. The Maya did not even use the loong count on a daily basis so why have it at all, that is the really big question...

[Mattshark]

SlimJim22, on 23 March 2010 - 11:08 AM, said:

I am sensing a lot of negativity   Seriously though, I agree it is the scientists who do the hard work and provide legitamacy to theories. This is the way it should remain but science itself must progress, I think it would be most fitting if religion and spirituality was broken down and accepted as the effect of subtle energies between cosmos and man. We are just made of a load of chemical elements and amino acids and proteins so imo we are effected by all things in our environment. It is just so subtle that it is virtually unrecognizable. I don't like charalatans and won't fork out money on a whim when some writer says this or that. I won't discard what they say either though, i take value where I can and integrate it into a way that I can make practical improvements. I am extremely skeptical of the new age but some parts of it have real  resonance for me. The other person who spoke about resonance at length was Tesla and he was a scientist but one who understood the subtle enrgy fields that have now been rediscovered and confirmed by the latest science.

Mate, I just completed an MSc in Animal Behaviour and that does include humans so of course I am going to be extremely negative about baseless claims. Believe me that there is nothing, literally nothing to support anything that is millions of light years away affecting our behaviour. Yes there are environmental influences, but the are ones that can be detected by our senses, not some mystic space energies that there is no evidence of, that is just as much pseudo-science as anything else.

The new age junk may have real resonance for you, but the reality is that it is no better than creationism.

[Marby]

SlimJim22, on 23 March 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Consciousness has progressed through ages, even in the recent past we have moved from a analogue into a digital age. Our technology as I have said is an extension of man. The wheel, the spiral drill, metalurgy, all these things came at the right point in time for us to excel and grow as a species. It is just natural selection, we have adapted greater cognition and along with our opposable thumbs we can dominate our environment through cooperation.

I love it that our technology now is based on silicone and crystals and in the not too distant future will be cenred around nanoparticles. From what I understand of them thye are not even there half the time. Spooky. It all fits it with the Aquarian age for me at least but only time will tell. It may or maynot be appreciated with hindsight if there was any truth to it or mankind could remain very much dviided as we are now. I respect the view of all skeptics as they provide a valueable element for our overall understanding. I just hope they will not be too proud to compromise if the time is right.

on the subject of calendars. The Maya did not even use the loong count on a daily basis so why have it at all, that is the really big question...

But see, here you are making the pure assumption that scientific and technological advance has to do with some greater consciousness - a greater consciousness that has no evidence to support that it even exists so even if it did exist, anything said of it can only be based on wild speculation. On top of that, you are suggesting that celestial bodies have something to do with all this, when we know that they don't. Astrology has been thoroughly debunked to the point where it's a not even worth mentioning. You are also assuming that because of the mystical as opposed to the very obviously scientific, we have collectively grown as a species, when in fact, much of our scientific advancement in many fields has no bearing on say, the tribal people from the Amazon who have no contact with the outside world. Are you claiming that they are not evolving? This brings me to another point that I will illustrate with the proper definition of natural selection, letting it speak for itself - from biology.com:

Definition

noun

A process in nature in which organisms possessing certain genotypic characteristics that make them better adjusted to an environment tend to survive, reproduce, increase in number or frequency, and therefore, are able to transmitgenerations. and perpetuate their essential genotypic qualities to succeeding


Supplement

It is the process by which heritable traits that increase an organism's chances of survival and reproduction are favoured than less beneficial traits. Originally proposed by Charles Darwin, natural selection is the process that results in the evolution of organism.


While natural selection may help an organism to better survive in its environment, it really just boils down to the very basics of survival, and nothing more.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support that we are in any sort of age, dictated by the position of stars in the sky, the moon, or the sun. There is no reason, evidence, or motivation to care about the Mayan calendar outside of a historical/archaeological context.

While it's all very impressive that science has come so far and keeps going further, lets give it the proper credit and let it stand alone rather than attaching the mystical to it. It only cheapens it to do so.

Edited by Marby, 23 March 2010 - 12:41 PM.