355 replies to this topic

[Capt Amerika]

psyche101, on 04 February 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

Stephen Greer? Really?

$500 for the premiere?
You can likely get front row seating on the day of the premiere for $20 a pair with free popcorn.

[Capt Amerika]

Abramelin, on 05 February 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

We never did.

When was the last time we travelled to another star?

Heck, we haven't even made it to the moon!

[nopeda]

psyche101, on 05 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Quote

Abramelin, on 05 February 2013 - 12:54 AM, said:
We never did.
When was the last time we travelled to another star?

Not meaning to nitpick, but did you not say "Great Distances In Space"? I would consider the voyager probes to come under that category.

Still thinking small. What movie do you think he's plagiarising btw, and how?

[nopeda]

Chrlzs, on 04 February 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

It may be more 'nuanced', but it also ignores Occam's Razor and adds a whole pile of other questions..  WHY don't they wish to?  Why are they so bad at it, getting 'glimpsed' (in a way that is always not-quite 'proof') all the time?  Are they also deliberately teasing us?  And why are aliens more feasible than say, interdimensional beings or time travelers

If they exist they're apparently giving us hints of their existence before coming in direct open contact to let us ease into the idea. How controlled it is is a question, but imo the vast majority if not all actual sightings or crashed vehicles were deliberate on their part. When people see their air vehicles at night it's because they have lit them up on display, for example. Crop circles would be similar...

Since all matter is in the position and conditions it's in now, in order to "travel" back in time all matter would have to revert to the conditions and positions it was in at that time. That is, to "travel" as it's attempted to be portrayed in popular stories about the concept. But! In reality such stories don't really portray time travel for the individual, since if an individual traveled back in time say 200 years he would cease to exist. Instead of portraying the supposed traveler as actually traveling back in time that way, instead the portrayal is that everything else supposedly in the entire universe EXCEPT FOR the supposed traveler travels back to the positions and conditions it was in at the time supposedly being traveled back to. The idea is idiotic when considered in a realistic way like this. So is the idea of multidimensions of matter existing and occupying the same space.

[nopeda]

Quote

psyche101, on 04 February 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:
What else would one do though? Beyond looking at physics, heck, even quantum physics, we do have an understanding of space, if not an intimate knowledge of it. We know that E=MC2, we know what distances we are dealing with, we know how fast a photon can travel the Universe.

No we sure don't, since we've never been far enough from this small area to have any idea what velocity light travels in different parts of the universe. At this point my impression is that we are in and have never been able to get out of and area where the velocity of light is "adjusted" by some thing(s) since all tests indicate that it always travels at the same velocity relative to THIS PARTICULAR PLANET. Most likely it's not this particular planet but this particular area, however large that area may happen to be. If light travels significantly faster outside of such an area it would explain why it appears that light from all sources impacts this area at the same velocity relative to the area but regardless of the velocity of the emitter relative to Earth/this area....

[Abramelin]

Capt Amerika, on 05 February 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Heck, we haven't even made it to the moon!

Ah, you're one of those....

[DONTEATUS]

My money is on the facts,the Fact that not even a Bolt has been found ! SO Risk ? THe only risk is If and when they Land, Are we going to be nice,or are they going to be Hungry?

[Chrlzs]

Capt Amerika, on 05 February 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Heck, we haven't even made it to the moon!

Did you forget the sarcastic smiley?  If not, would you be so kind as to take this over to an Apollo denial thread, with evidence?  Thanks!

[Lilly]

Some posts have been removed due to personal attacks. Stick to discussing the subject matter, not one another. If you feel someone's post violates UM rules please use (click) the report button (bottom left).

Do not personally attack others. Refer to UM rules:

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[psyche101]

Abramelin, on 05 February 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

But it's still not even near a neighboring star.

No, to be fair, I did not know you meant "other systems" just "space" But we do have viable plans for craft that could reach other stars, even manned. We just have not taken the leap yet. The theory is there though. I am severely disappointed we have not tried any, the longe we wait, the less chance of hearing about another planet from the first person perspective in my lifetime.

[psyche101]

nopeda, on 05 February 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Still thinking small. What movie do you think he's plagiarising btw, and how?

Ah, you must be who Lilly is talking about. Your reputation precedes you. Why bother speaking to me when we do not like each other one bit? I have not bothered you in your thread, do you miss me do you?

Plagiarising? You should read the thread. Had you read the previous 2 pages, you would have seen:

Quote

Abramelin, on 05 February 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

I have another question: why do we think we know what's necessary to travel great distances in space?

Because we've done it.

To which I said, I do not mean to nitpick, but would not the Voyager probes be considered a great distance in space, and seeming as they are entering Interstellar space. I woud consider that a reasonable distance. An entire solar system is nothing to sneeze at.

If you miss me so much, maybe copy my Avatar to your desktop. You can open a text document and type all sorts of nonsense and feel good about it, heck, you might get the replies you so desire from me that way!

Edited by psyche101, 06 February 2013 - 03:36 AM.

[Slave2Fate]

psyche101, on 06 February 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

I am severely disappointed we have not tried any, the longe we wait, the less chance of hearing about another planet from the first person perspective in my lifetime.

Same here and that window closes more and more every day. I ain't getting any younger...

[Slave2Fate]

nopeda, on 05 February 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

No we sure don't, since we've never been far enough from this small area to have any idea what velocity light travels in different parts of the universe. At this point my impression is that we are in and have never been able to get out of and area where the velocity of light is "adjusted" by some thing(s) since all tests indicate that it always travels at the same velocity relative to THIS PARTICULAR PLANET. Most likely it's not this particular planet but this particular area, however large that area may happen to be. If light travels significantly faster outside of such an area it would explain why it appears that light from all sources impacts this area at the same velocity relative to the area but regardless of the velocity of the emitter relative to Earth/this area....

Is there any indication that physics is not the same across the universe? How would you even know? Without substantiation for your physics altering 'bubble' that we supposedly exist in then it is nothing more than a useless thought experiment,  which ultimately only serves to muddy the waters. Unless that is your intention.

Furthermore, I fail to see what this has to do with visitation to begin with. Even if aliens use a different iteration of physics than we do by being outside the 'bubble' they would have to adhere to any physics restrictions once they entered. So what exactly is your point?

Edit: Actually, never mind. Your inability to understand physics and general logic has been a death knell for too many threads in the past already.

Edited by Slave2Fate, 06 February 2013 - 03:36 AM.

[psyche101]

nopeda, on 05 February 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

No we sure don't, since we've never been far enough from this small area to have any idea what velocity light travels in different parts of the universe. At this point my impression is that we are in and have never been able to get out of and area where the velocity of light is "adjusted" by some thing(s) since all tests indicate that it always travels at the same velocity relative to THIS PARTICULAR PLANET. Most likely it's not this particular planet but this particular area, however large that area may happen to be. If light travels significantly faster outside of such an area it would explain why it appears that light from all sources impacts this area at the same velocity relative to the area but regardless of the velocity of the emitter relative to Earth/this area....

OK, but what would photons be doing in this region outside of our space? If dark matter or the fabric of space-time is indeed resistive, and controls the speed of light, then yes, I could see that as plausible, but not sure how or why our space would interact with this other type of space. To make sure I understand exactly what you propose, would it be something like a Photon travelling the expanse between theoretical multiverses? If that is the case, the the speed of light would also be dependant on that medium meaning the next Universe over could have a different speed of light to that which we have, probably based upon the most abundant matter created it this hypothetical "Other Universes" big Bang. We do not know the fabric of space time well enough to say if the Big Bang, or the most abundant element in the Universe has an impact on that. If it does, then yes, the speed of light would be considered a variable.
Or perhaps are you suggesting something like the fabric of space time having different densities in differing regions of space? That too, I admit might well have an effect on the speed of light. We have no reason to think so, but the idea seems plausible.

Edited by psyche101, 06 February 2013 - 03:47 AM.

[psyche101]

Slave2Fate, on 06 February 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

Is there any indication that physics is not the same across the universe? How would you even know? Without substantiation for your physics altering 'bubble' that we supposedly exist in then it is nothing more than a useless thought experiment,  which ultimately only serves to muddy the waters. Unless that is your intention.

Furthermore, I fail to see what this has to do with visitation to begin with. Even if aliens use a different iteration of physics than we do by being outside the 'bubble' they would have to adhere to any physics restrictions once they entered. So what exactly is your point?

Edit: Actually, never mind. Your inability to understand physics and general logic has been a death knell for too many threads in the past already.

Gidday Mate

Rather then let these guys relish in some long winded banter, I have to say I am afraid that a suspicion exists but not confirmed.

Quote

LINK - Laws of physics may change across the universe

New evidence supports the idea that we live in an area of the universe that is "just right" for our existence. The controversial finding comes from an observation that one of the constants of nature appears to be different in different parts of the cosmos.

If correct, this result stands against Einstein's equivalence principle, which states that the laws of physics are the same everywhere. "This finding was a real surprise to everyone," says John Webb of the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. Webb is lead author on the new paper, which has been submitted to Physical Review Letters.

Even more surprising is the fact that the change in the constant appears to have an orientation, creating a "preferred direction", or axis, across the cosmos. That idea was dismissed more than 100 years ago with the creation of Einstein's special theory of relativity.

Sections of sky

At the centre of the new study is the fine structure constant, also known as alpha. This number determines the strength of interactions between light and matter.

A decade ago, Webb used observations from the Keck telescope in Hawaii to analyse the light from distant galaxies called quasars. The data suggested that the value of alpha was very slightly smaller when the quasar light was emitted 12 billion years ago than it appears in laboratories on Earth today.

Now Webb's colleague Julian King, also of the University of New South Wales, has analysed data from the Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile, which looks at a different region of the sky. The VLT data suggests that the value of alpha elsewhere in the universe is very slightly bigger than on Earth.

The difference in both cases is around a millionth of the value alpha has in our region of space, and suggests that alpha varies in space rather than time. "I'd quietly hoped we'd simply find the same thing that Keck found," King says. "This was a real shock."

It is a long way form being widely accepted, and indeed, the best minds today will say that Physics are indeed the same across the Universe, Michio Kaku recently said exactly this in Through The Wormhole.


Like I say, a long way form convincing, but the idea is indeed out there. But then again, I seem to remember something about Neutrino's being faster than light recently.................. did not hold up.

Heck, sometimes these guys strike a lucky guess LOL.

Edited by psyche101, 06 February 2013 - 03:44 AM.