120 replies to this topic

[and then]

Considering the damage we are being told that will result from this failure to compromise by the two parties, do you think a deal will be struck or do you think both sides are willing to actually, knowingly allow a double dip recession?

[DieChecker]

I think Obama is psychologically unable to go as far down the Cuts road that the Republicans are demanding, and without the House, which is still under Republican control, he will not reach a deal.

The stratagy could be a long term one. Obama and the Democrats fail, along with the Republicans, to make a deal and we go over the "Cliff". Another recession hits, unemployment goes up. Stays bad for another 4 years. At that point Dan Quayle, Sarah Palin, Ron Paul or even Jeb Bush could easliy get elected with just about any stand, as long as it sounds better then 8 years of recessions and horrendously slow recovery, and super bad bipartisanship.

Sure, every person on Earth suffers financially for 4 more years, but the end result is a Republican in the White House!!! Politicians at the top levels really don't care about anyone then their party goals. Much like just about any Union you will find. Interested in promoting the Union and not the Company and the Employees.

I personnally don't think this is a Cliff. I think it is just a couple of Speed Bumps.

[acidhead]

United States

The U.S. government's fiscal year begins on 1 October of the previous calendar year and ends on 30 September of the year with which it is numbered. Prior to 1976, the fiscal year began on 1 July and ended on 30 June. The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 stipulated the change to allow Congress more time to arrive at a budget each year, and provided for what is known as the "transitional quarter" from 1 July 1976 to 30 September 1976. As stated above, the tax year for a business is governed by the fiscal year it chooses.^[19]
For example, the United States government fiscal year for 2013 ("FY 2013" or "FY13") is as follows:

• 1st quarter: 1 October 2012 – 31 December 2012
  
• 2nd quarter: 1 January 2013 – 31 March 2013
  
• 3rd quarter: 1 April 2013 – 30 June 2013
  
• 4th quarter: 1 July 2013 – 30 September 2013

[and then]

acidhead, on 03 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

United States

The U.S. government's fiscal year begins on 1 October of the previous calendar year and ends on 30 September of the year with which it is numbered. Prior to 1976, the fiscal year began on 1 July and ended on 30 June. The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 stipulated the change to allow Congress more time to arrive at a budget each year, and provided for what is known as the "transitional quarter" from 1 July 1976 to 30 September 1976. As stated above, the tax year for a business is governed by the fiscal year it chooses.^[19]
For example, the United States government fiscal year for 2013 ("FY 2013" or "FY13") is as follows:

• 1st quarter: 1 October 2012 – 31 December 2012
  
• 2nd quarter: 1 January 2013 – 31 March 2013
  
• 3rd quarter: 1 April 2013 – 30 June 2013
  
• 4th quarter: 1 July 2013 – 30 September 2013

I'm not sure the significance?  If taxes increase dramatically and at the same time spending is cut by government then I don't see how it matters where in the fiscal year it occurs.  The overall effect will be negative.  It makes me furious that these people are willing (seemingly) to watch the economy sink even lower and bring pain to many millions more people just for political advantage.  The republicans need to just roll over for him and have done.  He WILL have his way eventually or he'll burn it all down.  If he's correct then the economy will turn around and the dems will be heroes but if the repubs are right then the economy will tank worse and he'll be seen to be an idiot.  Any other approach and the repubs lose - and BIG.

[joc]

Folks, we are already over the cliff...

....and the only way to go is....you guessed it....straight down into the abyss...

[Jeremiah65]

I started to check "yes" because they have every intention of running and jumping off the edge...but then I decided to click "don't care".

It's good to see how the fear mongering and social programming is effecting some people.

You realize we need to cut the 1.2 trillion dollar deficit right?  You realize this only cuts the deficit in half...we are still "overspending" by 600 billion dollars...???

The fear mongering is to get people to cling to big brother and wallow in despair...This is just the beginning of many things that needs to happen.  The MSM is trying to scare everyone because they support one side that likes to spend money it does not have.

Here's what is going to happen.  We go over the make believe "cliff"...The Bush tax cuts expire, some cuts that need to happen go into effect...then under a special session, Congress will write new legislation to give a tax cut to the middle class...make it retroactive to the first of 2013 (they can do that) and then they will pick and choose which cuts from sequestration they will keep and toss.  There will be new cuts and new spending...oh joy.

This allows the Dems to say they fought the "rich" to get rid of the Bush tax cuts and will let the Repubs say they are helping the middle class...also allows the Repubs to avoid a black eye for raising taxes.  If they go "over the cliff" then Grover Norquist has nothing to say.

Dog and pony show....erm...Elephant and Donkey show...

Edited by Jeremiah65, 03 December 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[RavenHawk]

I said yes, not because of fear mongering but because of Socialist stupidity.  How soon we forget that when we got the Bush tax cuts, everyone complained because the individual only received $300 bucks.  So as I brought up in another thread, what does it give us to only raise taxes on the top 2%?  That only raises about $80 billion.  Obama isn’t that much of a moron.  Raising taxes on the rich isn’t to help the rest of us.  It is merely to grab power.  Force the GOP to cave which would be a big victory for a lame duck president.  In the final analysis, only the rich will be hurt by letting the Bush tax cuts expire which will result in even less wealth being reinvested back into the system.  Even thought it means cuts in defense (I’ve been around long enough, I’m confident that my job will still be here), we need the spending cuts.  And that means that Obamacare will be in danger of folding.  People will be hurting but it’s better for us to hurt a little bit now, than a whole bunch later.  So given the losses vs gains, I’m rooting for the cliff which is really only a cliff for the Socialists.

[OverSword]

We've already gone over the cliff.  Crashes real effects take 7 to 10 years to catch up while the wealthy play games with other peoples investments to make sure only the people that can't afford to lose, lose, and the rich take only a minor hit if any.  Read about the great depression and see the truth of this.  We have mirrored the mistakes and stupid futile attempts to patch it up that were made in the 1920's and 30's.

Edited by OverSword, 03 December 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[Harte]

I think DieChecker has it about right, as usual.

IMO, we need to go over the thing whether it's a cliff or just a speed bump.

Harte

[RavenHawk]

Harte, on 03 December 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

IMO, we need to go over the thing whether it's a cliff or just a speed bump.

Or to paraphrase, we need to go over it before we can see what’s in it…

[ninjadude]

DieChecker, on 03 December 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

I think Obama is psychologically unable to go as far down the Cuts road that the Republicans are demanding, and without the House, which is still under Republican control, he will not reach a deal.

The republicans are psychologically unable to go as far up the tax revenue road that the Democrats are demanding (by voter mandate).

[joc]

ninjadude, on 04 December 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

The republicans are psychologically unable to go as far up the tax revenue road that the Democrats are demanding (by voter mandate).

You're screwed!  I'm screwed!  We are all screwed!  Republicans and Democrats!  What a rip!  They are the same freaking party...maybe you are in the Washington Party...the rest of us aren't.  The game is over!  They won!  You didn't win...THEY won..,.and yet you gloat like you won something...the only winners in all of this are the State-ists.  End of story!

[F3SS]

ninjadude, on 04 December 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

The republicans are psychologically unable to go as far up the tax revenue road that the Democrats are demanding (by voter mandate).

And the house reps are doing what their constituents voted them in to do. Seems many voters like Obama but know he needs a check and a balance. It's just too bad they didn't think he needed a rotation too right out of the office.

[acidhead]

and then, on 03 December 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I'm not sure the significance?  If taxes increase dramatically and at the same time spending is cut by government then I don't see how it matters where in the fiscal year it occurs.  The overall effect will be negative.  It makes me furious that these people are willing (seemingly) to watch the economy sink even lower and bring pain to many millions more people just for political advantage.  The republicans need to just roll over for him and have done.  He WILL have his way eventually or he'll burn it all down.  If he's correct then the economy will turn around and the dems will be heroes but if the repubs are right then the economy will tank worse and he'll be seen to be an idiot.  Any other approach and the repubs lose - and BIG.

This Christmas show down to get a deal done is simply more of the political reality show.  It's all an act.  As you pointed out "I don't see how it matters where in the fiscal year it occurs"... than in retrospect who really gives two ****s what the D's and R's say between now and the end of December.  It's just a number in relation to time.  Time to tax America.  It's all BS and pointless to promote a feel-good deadline when it doesn't matter anyhow.  I personally don't know how some people can listen to these con artists... these so-called leaders couldn't lead me across the street without asking for a second opinion.

[and then]

I'm hearing more and more "pundits" from the right saying essentially "I don't care - burn it down"  I'm beginning to think it might be the only effective bargaining strategy they have left.  To just accept that they lost and allow him to do his worst so they can be chosen to pick up the pieces later.  Lovely for those of us right on the edge.