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Knowing your religion


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#1    vdesbld

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:01 PM

This is an "open statement" regarding various "biblical" interpretations that I felt are being used inappropriately to misguide people throughout the world.  If you do not like the subject of clarification of Christian wrong/wrong-doing, then please look away.  This page can only enlighten you.

First, when you hear the statement "Moses parted the Red Sea," one should know that a typical military tactic against chariots was to ruse them into a low-lying area and then breach a dike/dam, flood them, then go in for the cleanup.  Iraq did this against the Iranians wherein they would goad Iranian men and machines into gullies and valleys, and then proceed to wipe them out (the Afghans did it against the Russians as well).  One must also not discount the fact that Moses' people poisoned the Nile as part of their rebellion against the Pharaohs.  Really, its nothing different than what the CIA was doing in Nicaragua and San Salvador during the 80s, or in Columbia or Bolivia today.

Second, please make sure that when anyone says, "Rose from the grave," that really, one should understand that this act involved "a few good men," a lot of intention, and eventually, a stolen body and a private wake.  References to any other kind of interpretation is super-phenomenal-- in other words, it didn't happen that way, and the word "resurrection" is a super-phenomenal statement.

Third, a lot of people continue to hold onto (emotionally) to obsolete, redacted and embellished "truths."  As a social historian, I know that the farther back you go in society, the less "trustworthy" are accounts of events because of the limited people that recorded them, as well as the method of interpretation used by that particular ethnic person.  

Fourth, when referring to time, many christians say that people used to live to be 1000 years old.  They fail to take into account that several thousand years ago, almost everyone, including the Egyptians and Hebrews, counted time in moons, 13 to the year.  Somewhere along the way, the interpretation of a time span became distorted to show that each one of those moon cycles was a "solar year."  That is pattentedly false.  They counted in moons then, and therefore, when saying "1000" (lunar years/months), one should divide by 13, and there will arrive at the average age referred to in the bible, which was about 72 years.  For anyone that lived well-off back then, that was a normal life-span.

If you have any other clarifications, please feel free to email me your contentions/arguments/conclusions.


#2    Aslan

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:10 PM

I'm afraid I'm a little baffled by all this. Quite apart from your nebulous reasons for starting the whole thread, what does this mean:

QUOTE
References to any other kind of interpretation is super-phenomenal-- in other words, it didn't happen that way, and the word "resurrection" is a super-phenomenal statement.


What exactly do you mean by 'super-phenomenal'?




#3    Kaj

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:20 PM

What "support" to these things do you have?

Where did you find this? Or is it only you?

I´m not religious, but why try to destroy a belief religious people have, for comfort and support in their often hard lifes....

I don´t get it.... Pointless....

If it is only a book to you...so be it. It still is important to some people.
Let them who needs it, have it.
I wish i had a strong belief in something, I´m jealous of it, but I don´t judge them.

We are just farts in space and time.



Be nice !

#4    Aslan

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 07:09 PM

Well he's disappeared. He spent a good while looking at it and then disappeared. And I can only suspect he didn't know what he was talking about. I objected, anyway, to the supercilious tone of his post.

Does anybody else know what vdesbld meant when he used 'super-phenomenal' in this context?


#5    SpaceyKC

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 08:38 PM


          Sorry, Aslan,  I don't have a clue.

"Science may have found a cure for most evils;  but it has
         found no remedy for the worst of them all --- the apathy of human beings."
                                                     Helen Keller

#6    schadeaux

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (vdesbld @ Sep 9 2003, 11:01 AM)
If you have any other clarifications, please feel free to email me your contentions/arguments/conclusions.

Why should anyone email you a response to this?  This is a discussion forum, not a dating club.  Therefore, I will post my contentions here, as I feel a little contention is good for the soul.

*First, as far as Moses and the Red Sea is concerned, it is still not proven exactly where the Israelites crossed, or if the Egyptians crossed in the same place.  There is a likely area of the Red Sea where the bottom is near or at sea level, where drought like conditions may reveal a bridge crossing:
user posted image
-Whether the actual crossing was made possible by an act of God or a condition of Nature simply depends on your own opinion and/or faith.

*Second, rising from the dead is not unheard of.  In the late 19th – early 20th century burying people alive was a real concern.  People were having their gravesite equipped with alarms in the event they were actually alive when the coffin was nailed shut.  After some 900 years you would think professional doctors would know the difference between a live person and a dead one.
-Aside from all that, there is no evidence anywhere that the Resurrection didn’t happen.  
Resurrection Link

-I could also include here that in some interpretations of the Resurrection, Jesus did not literally “rise from the dead.”  The Resurrection may also refer to the state of Jesus being finally and communally accepted as the son of God.  That’s a whole other subject, I know, but I felt it should be expressed here.  It would make this whole section superfluous.
-(As for the “super-phenomenal” remark, it is a painfully obvious misstatement in the context of your post.  If the events were not “super-phenomenal” they would be quite ordinary and not worthy of note.)

*Third, I am glad you are a social historian (if these are, in fact your words, and not a cut-and-paste).  Other than your statement of profession, I fail to see the significance of this paragraph.
-I take that back.  I fail to see the significance of this paragraph.

*Fourth, other than the first sentence that your statements have no basis in fact.
Age Link

If you have any other clarifications, please don't bother to email me your contentions/arguments/conclusions.  I check this forum site much more often. original.gif  

"To study and not think is a waste.
To think and not study is dangerous."
Confucius

#7    Nancy

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE (schadeaux @ Sep 9 2003, 05:27 PM)
Why should anyone email you a response to this?  This is a discussion forum, not a dating club. 

schadeaux? NOW you tell me........ geezeeeee! This isn't a "meat market"?

Seriously, I am just as perplexed as all others who have taken the time to reply to this Thread.  w00t.gif

I have no words of wisdom to impart, although schadeaux, you did a marvelous job!  thumbsup.gif

I see the Author of this over the edge Post/Thread has yet to reappear and discuss any of this. Hmmm, tis almost as if he/she wasn't here at all  .... blink.gif


dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#8    schadeaux

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE (Nancy @ Sep 9 2003, 03:24 PM)
QUOTE (schadeaux @ Sep 9 2003, 05:27 PM)
Why should anyone email you a response to this?  This is a discussion forum, not a dating club. 

[color=green]schadeaux? NOW you tell me........ geezeeeee! This isn't a "meat market"?

I said nothing about solicitous flirting, Nancy. wink2.gif  

"To study and not think is a waste.
To think and not study is dangerous."
Confucius

#9    Nancy

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 01:39 AM

QUOTE (schadeaux @ Sep 9 2003, 06:54 PM)
I said nothing about solicitous flirting, Nancy. wink2.gif

Ut oh, am I going to be arrested again? oopsssssssssss   dontgetit.gif  

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#10    Bizarro

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 02:58 AM

its bash the Christians week on Unexplained Mysteries! come everyone, enjoy the festivities and create as many threads trashing faith as you possibly can.  it will make for great conversation and fun  thumbsup.gif  

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#11    Sandy Band

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 03:06 PM

Aslan,

Clearly the phrase super-phenomenal refers to an event that is so ultra-amazing that it's mega-fantastical characteristics cause it to go off the normal "phenomenon-measuring" scale, looping back round to zero and thus becoming normal again.

And you an english teacher too. I pity your students, I really do.


#12    Nancy

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE (Sandy Band @ Sep 10 2003, 11:06 AM)
Aslan,

Clearly the phrase super-phenomenal refers to an event that is so ultra-amazing that it's mega-fantastical characteristics cause it to go off the normal "phenomenon-measuring" scale, looping back round to zero and thus becoming normal again.

And you an english teacher too. I pity your students, I really do.

Sandy Band.......
It is not my intent to speak for Aslan, he does that very well himself. However, I do feel your comments are insulting and demeaning!

NOTE:
Main Entry: [3]superFunction: adverb
Etymology: super-
Date: 1946
1 : VERY, EXTREMELY <a super fast car>
2 : to an excessive degree

Main Entry: phe·nom·e·nalPronunciation: fi-'nä-m&-n&l
Function: adjective
Date: 1825
: relating to or being a phenomenon: as a : known through the senses rather than through thought or intuition b : concerned with phenomena rather than with hypotheses c : EXTRAORDINARY, REMARKABLE
synonym see MATERIAL
- phe·nom·e·nal·ly /-n&l-E/ adverb

My interpretation of Aslan's remarks indicate that the word "phenomenal" stands alone. Adding the word "super" makes NO sense at all, quite the same way your phrases " mega-fantastical"  and "ultra-amazing"  are ridiculous and meaningless.

If I were Aslan? I would expect an apology. Rude comments are not tolerated well by intelligent individuals.........  and are unnecessary. disgust.gif

Aslan? I apologize if I have overstepped my bounds here, but this type of attitude drives me  w00t.gif

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#13    Aslan

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 03:27 PM


And I'd only just arrived at the conclusion that 'super-phenomenal' meant:

A zippy-sounding pseudo-scientific word that doesn't actually mean anything but can be used as a blanket explanation to baffle people whom you consider less intelligent than yourself and therefore easily wowed by zippy-sounding pseudo-scientific words.





#14    Sandy Band

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 04:15 PM

Nancy,

Sorry, but I think you've missed the heavy sarcasm in my post. I was entirely agreeing with Aslan that the phrase was nonsense, hence my use of equal rubbish like "ultra-amazing" and "mega-fantastical".

If anything I should be apologising to the original poster.

Anyhoo, no hard feelings to Aslan, Nancy, vdesbld, anyone at all. I was only joshing. I'll play nice from now on!  


#15    Saru

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 04:58 PM

I'm going to shut this one down, several people have already stated that they are offended by the content of the original post, and since the person who started it has long since disappeared, I don't think there's any reason to let this continue.





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