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USA mass murders?!


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#1    dekker87

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:05 PM

after several 'learned' posters have referred to american atrocities today yet appear unable to actually back them up with any hard facts i'm opening it up to everyone.....

can anyone post anything that gives weight to expandmymind and solarplexus's accusations / statements that the USA has committed mass murder in the last 60 years!?


#2    HollyDolly

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:21 PM

View Postdekker87, on 01 June 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

after several 'learned' posters have referred to american atrocities today yet appear unable to actually back them up with any hard facts i'm opening it up to everyone.....

can anyone post anything that gives weight to expandmymind and solarplexus's accusations / statements that the USA has committed mass murder in the last 60 years!?

Trying to think.There were massacres of native american villages by US military troops in the 1800s.
Of course, they preyed on settlers and attacked wagon trains, which is conviently forgotten by those of a libral veiwpoint.
There were various labor strikes in which men,women and children were killed, and race riots like in oklahoma in the 1900s against blacks,.But there were as far as I know nothing in America like th eInquisition, or the witch trails in Europe, or in France,like the Albigisian Crusade against the Cathars,etc. Every nation has its own dark history,you accept it and move on.


#3    rashore

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:35 PM

What are you talking about Dekker? Like the government ordering mass killings? Killings outside of combat situations?


#4    dekker87

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:35 PM

View PostHollyDolly, on 01 June 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Trying to think.There were massacres of native american villages by US military troops in the 1800s.
Of course, they preyed on settlers and attacked wagon trains, which is conviently forgotten by those of a libral veiwpoint.
There were various labor strikes in which men,women and children were killed, and race riots like in oklahoma in the 1900s against blacks,.But there were as far as I know nothing in America like th eInquisition, or the witch trails in Europe, or in France,like the Albigisian Crusade against the Cathars,etc. Every nation has its own dark history,you accept it and move on.

thanks Holly but i'm looking for instances within the last 60 years...since the end of WW2...i'm being told that america surpasses all other nations when it comes to mass killings during this period so i'd just like to see some evidence of this...


#5    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:38 PM

Nicaragua (20,000 estimated dead), Cambodia/Lao (estimated hundreds of thousands dead), Sudan (estimated 20,000 dead), Vietnam (too many to count are dead) to name but a few at the moment. If you'll give me time, I will reply to your (quite absurd) reply to my post in the other thread. Y'know, where this is being actively discussed.

And of course then you have the brutal dictators that the U.S. has armed, funded, supported and encouraged. Of which there are literally hundreds of thousands dead in South America, hundreds of thousands died in Indonesia (the first time), I'm unsure of the number that died when Indonesia more recently invaded East Timor (tens of thousands?), etc, etc. Mass murder by the U.S. is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories...


#6    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:40 PM

View Postdekker87, on 01 June 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

i'm being told that america surpasses all other nations when it comes to mass killings during this period so i'd just like to see some evidence of this...

No, you have been told that they have committed such acts, then you have used other examples that have surpassed the casualties in number, as a means to justify U.S. acts and take the moral high ground on their behalf.

And please, it's etiquette to allow someone time to reply to a post before going off on a rant somewhere else. You'll get your reply.


#7    rashore

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:43 PM

So this is killings through combat? Well yeah there's been a lot of that since 1950. I dunno if the US has done the most killing though.


#8    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:48 PM

In reference to Cambodia:

Nixon: "I want them to hit everything."

Kissinger to the U.S. military: transmitted the order to the Pentagon to carry out a "massive bombing campaign in Cambodia. Anything that flies on anything that moves."

Which not only is mass murder, but generally considered genocide (hundreds of thousands dead)... Unless you happen to be the U.S. or a lucky ally

Edited by expandmymind, 01 June 2011 - 02:50 PM.


#9    Alienated Being

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:50 PM

Hm... well, the H1N1 was an engineered virus... so what does that tell you?


#10    Spark Plug

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:54 PM

View Postdekker87, on 01 June 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

after several 'learned' posters have referred to american atrocities today yet appear unable to actually back them up with any hard facts i'm opening it up to everyone.....

can anyone post anything that gives weight to expandmymind and solarplexus's accusations / statements that the USA has committed mass murder in the last 60 years!?

I think you need to be careful about what you're writing and who might be reading it.


#11    acidhead

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:55 PM

View Postexpandmymind, on 01 June 2011 - 02:38 PM, said:

Nicaragua (20,000 estimated dead), Cambodia/Lao (estimated hundreds of thousands dead), Sudan (estimated 20,000 dead), Vietnam (too many to count are dead) to name but a few at the moment. If you'll give me time, I will reply to your (quite absurd) reply to my post in the other thread. Y'know, where this is being actively discussed.

And of course then you have the brutal dictators that the U.S. has armed, funded, supported and encouraged. Of which there are literally hundreds of thousands dead in South America, hundreds of thousands died in Indonesia (the first time), I'm unsure of the number that died when Indonesia more recently invaded East Timor (tens of thousands?), etc, etc. Mass murder by the U.S. is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories...


winning!

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#12    dekker87

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:59 PM

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Nicaragua (20,000 estimated dead),

sorry did the USA invade?

i must have been dozing when that happened...i have a vague recollection of congressional hearings to do with ILLEGAL funding of the contras....for which i believe certain US govt figures served time in prison.

Quote

Cambodia/Lao (estimated hundreds of thousands dead),

millions actually but again i must have slept thru this because although i remember a few US bombing raids on Vietcong supply lines i don't remember them invading.

Quote

Sudan (estimated 20,000 dead),

in exactly what way, shape or form are the US responsible?

Quote

Vietnam (too many to count are dead)

the vietnam WAR you mean? outside of 'normal' war time combat and without referencing the mai lai massacre (for which the US servicemen involved were tried and convicted of war crimes) which of these deaths amount to 'murder' as commonly understood?

Quote

And of course then you have the brutal dictators that the U.S. has armed, funded, supported and encouraged

the actions of whom the US is not in any responsible.

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Of which there are literally hundreds of thousands dead in South America,

hmmm...i remember the US invasion of grenada....and some action in panama...other than that i can't recall any us invasion in south america...

Quote

hundreds of thousands died in Indonesia (the first time),

how is the us responsible for this?

it's not enough to prove linkage or support between the us and these regimes...your position is that the US has committed mass murder...so prove that THE US has done so....not some tangenitally linked regime that recieved some funding from the us because they may have been anti-communist.

Quote

I'm unsure of the number that died when Indonesia more recently invaded East Timor (tens of thousands?), etc, etc.

this is down to the US!?!?!!?

Quote

Mass murder by the U.S. is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories...

Indeed not...it's actually total and utter BS anti-american propaganda.


#13    dekker87

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:01 PM

View Postacidhead, on 01 June 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

winning!

regardless of who did the killing to post a phrase such as 'winning' on a topic such as this belies your actual feelings for those who died.

View PostSpark Plug, on 01 June 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

I think you need to be careful about what you're writing and who might be reading it.

why?


#14    ali smack

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:02 PM

I'm not quite show what the O.P. is asking?
here are some bits and bobs i've found regarding dictators and U.S. Government.

http://wais.stanford...tators8303.html

http://www.gwu.edu/~...SAEBB/NSAEBB82/

http://www.counterpu...on06172004.html

http://tfclub.tripod.com/list.html

http://www.alternet....ing_to_the_hilt

I will do some more research and post my results


#15    ali smack

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:05 PM

http://www.hawaii.ed.../SOD.CHAP13.HTM

http://www.projectce...llings-in-iraq/

and here are some articles regarding killings which I believe the O.P. may have been more interested in.

Edited by ali smack, 01 June 2011 - 03:07 PM.





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