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Overpopulation


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#1    TrueBeliever

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

I certainly think overpopulation is a real problem and affects everything in our life, from jobs availability to appropriation of natural resources........I am interested in hearing from the fundamentalist christians who believe overpopulation is a myth.......I just do not understand how they do not see the issues involved. Science and math are not their strong point but come on.......it is so obvious!


#2    Betrayal of Humanity

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:38 PM

How would you fix the overpopulation problem?

"The advocates of abortion on demand falsely assume two things: that women must suffer if the lives of unborn children are legally protected; and that women can only attain equality by having the legal option of destroying their innocent offspring in the womb." --  Robert Casey

#3    TrueBeliever

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

View PostBetrayal of Humanity, on 10 November 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

How would you fix the overpopulation problem?

I don't know, but anything I think of will be offensive to someone! People are more concerned with rights than responsibility.....I would like to simply appeal to reason, and hope that some would 'get it' and limit their family size. But many who believe  a deity has full control over natural affairs believe they do not have to show any common sense or deduce any mathematical consequences....because 'God' will sort it out......therein lies our problem. How do we reason with unreasonable mindsets?


#4    Orcseeker

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

View PostBetrayal of Humanity, on 10 November 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

How would you fix the overpopulation problem?

Stop people from having more kids than they can even support ( because face it, those who have multiple children these days can't support them as properly as they would like ). Providing proper sexual education. Providing education in general. Encourage adoption.

As far as I'm concerned, Chinas one child policy has been a breeding ground for corruption and the abandonment/deaths of baby girls due to it not being a son as their culture heeds that. In the long run they may have fewer women and in turn a declining population when the one child policy generation comes to pass. But no one can say that it is the right way.

If we continue, nature being nature, may breed in itself a supervirus. The core problem here being, this one being powerful enough to wipe out the human race. Why a super virus you ask? We have all these medicines, antibiotics and such that take care of many of our illnesses and in turn, they are growing stronger as a result. However, if there was one that built up enough to bypass our medicines and further mutated to become terribly deadly. We could have a big problem on our hands. From possibly avoiding this altogether or succumbing to a weaker, less lethal supervirus and surviving, continuing the overpopulation and encouraging the use of and increasing the potency of our medicines could only make the situation worse.

We see in countries like Africa, the children are staving and living in the worst conditions in the world. We then have all these charitable organisations saying to donate to save this child and that child. But the problem here isn't starving children, it is people having children in a place they can't properly look after them so it creates and endless cycle and quite disgusting to see some organisations exploit it. If we target the real problems for the causes of things like these, the other problems to stem from these would cease. Africa being host to the most countries with the highest birth rates would be somewhere to start.

Education I believe is key.

The general areas in population decline are particularly parts of Eastern Europe and Russia. This is mostly due to lower birth rates. A lot of the young people leave these countries for more opportunity rich countries and leave the older, ageing population behind, which increases the countries death rates and emigration rates. As a result of this immigration can also be expected to be low.



Edited by Orcseeker, 10 November 2012 - 01:02 PM.


#5    Mnemonix

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:05 PM

I'm not planning on having children.


#6    Betrayal of Humanity

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

Stop worrying about offending people then and speak your mind. It is not just Christians that are the problem with overpopulation, instead you need to look at who has the most kids and why.

Killing of those in prison that have committed crimes against the innocent would cut down on the population greatly. But people do not want to do this(for some odd reason), they would rather limit others ability to have as many children as they want and give out free abortions.

Offering free sterilization is another good option and should be encouraged not frowned on.

You should only be able to have so many children while on welfare(I would much rather get rid of it all together)instead of being able to continuously breed just to get a hand out. Kids do not deserve to be used as a weapon for anyone to obtain resources.

Those are some of my opinions, I don't care if someone is offended by them. How can anything get fixed in the world if everyone is offended by what others think or say.

"The advocates of abortion on demand falsely assume two things: that women must suffer if the lives of unborn children are legally protected; and that women can only attain equality by having the legal option of destroying their innocent offspring in the womb." --  Robert Casey

#7    Orcseeker

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:21 PM

I agree with getting rid of murderers and rapists, but these days you'd get more time for downloading a few songs than killing someone... So I think the justice system needs a big turnover before we look at dealing out any sort of punishments.

America does a good job with dealing with murderers and such, but over here in Australia, prison is like one big nice hotel, where they get nice meals and nice beds and after a couple of years for killing someone, get to go free. After being a leech on society and no justice being served.

The point im saying is, we would really need to change a lot of our societies in order to put in place overpopulation curbing safeguards. Most of us need to come back to reality and realise that this world will run out if we continue to increase our population.

Edited by Orcseeker, 10 November 2012 - 01:33 PM.


#8    TrueBeliever

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:23 PM

View PostBetrayal of Humanity, on 10 November 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Stop worrying about offending people then and speak your mind. It is not just Christians that are the problem with overpopulation, instead you need to look at who has the most kids and why.

Killing of those in prison that have committed crimes against the innocent would cut down on the population greatly. But people do not want to do this(for some odd reason), they would rather limit others ability to have as many children as they want and give out free abortions.

Offering free sterilization is another good option and should be encouraged not frowned on.

You should only be able to have so many children while on welfare(I would much rather get rid of it all together)instead of being able to continuously breed just to get a hand out. Kids do not deserve to be used as a weapon for anyone to obtain resources.

Those are some of my opinions, I don't care if someone is offended by them. How can anything get fixed in the world if everyone is offended by what others think or say.

if you have read many of my posts you would know I am not shy.....and I can be quite offensive. I do not think only christians are the problem with overpopulation.    Read what I said though..............people who believe a deity runs the world and that humans cannot destroy the planet are a problem IMO. A huge problem. These same folks many times have a problem with contraceptive use....

I totally agree with limiting the number of children on welfare. One, and no more and that is probably too many.

More contraceptive use would be awesome! There again you have the religious element of people like the Duggars who think contraception is an affront to their God..........Michelle looked into the camera on one show, and said emphatically..."overpopulation is a myth!"  That kind of ignorance shocks me.

I am not a huge supporter of the death penalty because of how often we imprison/execute an innocent person. But that's a topic for another thread...lol

Free sterilization would be so awesome! totally agree there!

We have to address the mindsets that are behind overpopulation though........from religion, to entitlement, to just sheer irresponsibility and selfishness........

Like I said I don't know the exact answers....I just know we need to do something..........if people won't do it willingly and freely, maybe we ought to force them. But people can be spoiled rotten brats when it comes to what they feel entitled to.....


#9    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:41 PM

View PostTrueBeliever, on 10 November 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

if you have read many of my posts you would know I am not shy.....and I can be quite offensive. I do not think only christians are the problem with overpopulation. Read what I said though..............people who believe a deity runs the world and that humans cannot destroy the planet are a problem IMO. A huge problem. These same folks many times have a problem with contraceptive use....

I totally agree with limiting the number of children on welfare. One, and no more and that is probably too many.

More contraceptive use would be awesome! There again you have the religious element of people like the Duggars who think contraception is an affront to their God..........Michelle looked into the camera on one show, and said emphatically..."overpopulation is a myth!"  That kind of ignorance shocks me.

I am not a huge supporter of the death penalty because of how often we imprison/execute an innocent person. But that's a topic for another thread...lol

Free sterilization would be so awesome! totally agree there!

We have to address the mindsets that are behind overpopulation though........from religion, to entitlement, to just sheer irresponsibility and selfishness........

Like I said I don't know the exact answers....I just know we need to do something..........if people won't do it willingly and freely, maybe we ought to force them. But people can be spoiled rotten brats when it comes to what they feel entitled to.....

One of the reasons people believe overpopulation is a myth is because of the fact that you can fit every person in the world into an area the size of of Australia with enough land to grow their own plants, etc.

The main reason it seems as though the world is tight on food resources is because most of the arable land is used to grow the food that is needed to feed the livestock that fills westerners' huge appetite for meat and for junk food.


#10    Betrayal of Humanity

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:42 PM

The criminals here are basically treated the same way IMO. I agree the system needs a complete overhaul but it can't be done unless people speak up to those in charge and voice there opinions because arguing with those online isn't going to help, though discussing it will help in figuring out what needs to be done and what people are willing to let go of.

Forcing is not the answer either, only education can help those understand what needs to be done. We need some missionaries that are willing to go over to over countries that are poor and over populated and explain things to them as well. That's how the Christians got the word of God around.

People are also very wasteful and should be taught how not to be, and charging them more money is not the way to go with that, it only makes people resent and  there for not do even to save money. Teaching it to our children is a better approach.

Edited by Betrayal of Humanity, 10 November 2012 - 01:46 PM.

"The advocates of abortion on demand falsely assume two things: that women must suffer if the lives of unborn children are legally protected; and that women can only attain equality by having the legal option of destroying their innocent offspring in the womb." --  Robert Casey

#11    Orcseeker

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:58 PM

This overpopulation is a myth stuff just makes me lose faith in humanity. After watching that duggers woman try to justify it makes me want to cry. For example, you can fit 5 people in a bit of land, perhaps that of land is inhospitable desert. Most of the worlds populations these days live in cities. If everyone spread out, it would use even more resources.

We need to have populations reduced to a level that our resources can at least in some sectors keep up in and last long enough for us to be able to sufficiently implement or adopt other sustainable alternatives and methods.

Right now we are consuming the most we ever had in the whole history of the human race. Plastics, foods, oils, cosmetics etc. We adopt more of our wants than needs. Especially those who are better off. For example, some girls I know have 40 pairs of shoes... Shoes require, believe it or not, a lot of resources to produce. As well as this unnecessary amount, it could provide so many of the poor (who don't even come close to a 1:1 in resource consumption comparison) who cannot afford such luxuries, footwear that may otherwise never get worn again.

Though a lot of things like that are a result of society, much like dresses as well. An industry built on developing social stigmas from wearing the same things more than once and to keep up with this requires an unsustainable requirements to adhere to the "do's".

So on every level I believe people can be educated.

Edited by Orcseeker, 10 November 2012 - 02:01 PM.


#12    Artaxerxes

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

My wife and I have been married for 38 years and we are childless by choice.  After 6 years of marriage we talked and decided that we were happy with our marriage the way it was and I ran out and found a urologist that would give me a vasectomy.  I was 27 years old.   It cost our health insurance $275 at that time which is way cheaper than what it would have cost our insurance if my wife had gotten pregnant and had a child.  

While in college the book "The Population Bomb" by Ehrlich was required reading in Biology 101.  It had a profound impact on my thinking.   The effects of overpopulation seemed so obvious to me.  

We are either in or soon will be in Peak Oil mode.  That means that we have used 1/2 of all the world's oil reserves in the last 130 years.   The huge population increases of the 20th Century are directly attributable to oil.   Cheap energy allowed the production of huge quantities of cheap food for humans.  We reproduced to fit the available food supply.   Because we are using oil at an ever increasing rate the prediction is that we will use most of the remaining oil reserves in the next 40 years.  Even if oil is abiotic it is made at such a slow rate that the earth will not or can not supply us with what is needed to sustain all the humans that are presently on the earth.

Sunlight, wind power, etc. won't be able to fill the needed energy demand when the oil runs out.  The only remaining option will be nuclear energy.   Hopefully we won't have another Chernobyl.


#13    Ashotep

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:29 PM

Just because there is physical space on the planet to hold these people doesn't mean this planet can support them.  The aquifers are already low and getting lower.  There is no new farm space either, its all being farmed now.  Many of those places are going to get where its too hot and dry to grow crops, which is part of why the aquifers are getting so low.  We already have too many people on this planet.

I heard some say limit how many children you can draw welfare on or cut out welfare all together.  That would just make the kids suffer, they didn't ask to be born.  I don't know what you would do there.  Forcible take their children and adopt them out then sterilize them.  How much intrusion from government do you want.


#14    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:19 PM

As a person with three kids, if you tried to force sterilize me or any of my children, I would basically shoot you. With that said my vesectomy is planned.

Some of your ideas about what it takes to raise children is rooted in your own materialistc consumption habits. Kids need to be warm, nutritious food, and to be loved. It's not that hard and it's not really that expensive. Welfare is a joke. I was raised in a travel trailer with no welfare sometimes without even electricity. I made it just fine.  

Don't worry. Nature knows how to take care of over population. It might not be pretty, but it wouldn't be the first time either.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#15    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

As a person with three kids, if you tried to force sterilize me or any of my children, I would basically shoot you. With that said my vesectomy is planned.

Best reply to this thread so far.. I think I would do the same...if I had a gun   lol

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          Don't worry. Nature knows how to take care of over population. It might not be pretty, but it wouldn't be the first time either.        

Absouletly  bang on...

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