10148 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

TheOtherSide1945, on 17 January 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

now those are close. but i dont think they are as exact and the size of the stones are a 1/4 to 1/3 the size used in peru. wouldnt the greek and european ones be alot younger when they had technology more refined?

They were at least a 1000 years older or more.

[Abramelin]

TheOtherSide1945, on 17 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

the other thing is if anciant man was smart enough to come up with the astronomical knowledge given to them by "gods" and were advanced enough to make Gobli Tempe(sp?) and Puma Punku, then why would they make up these stories based on nothing? I mean wouldnt they say WE built puma punku not an unkown race of giants?

Göbekli Tepe is like 12,500 years older than Puma Punku.

It's very unlikely they are connected.

[seeder]

TheOtherSide1945, on 17 January 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

now those are close. but i dont think they are as exact and the size of the stones are a 1/4 to 1/3 the size used in peru. wouldnt the greek and european ones be alot younger when they had technology more refined?

The Parthenon is 1000 years older than puma punku, google an image if you dont know what it looks like, it was one of the best ever ancient buildings, and still stands, zillion times better than PP

and 1000 years before it

[TheOtherSide1945]

Abramelin, on 17 January 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Göbekli Tepe is like 12,500 years older than Puma Punku.

It's very unlikely they are connected.

not saying they were connected just good examples of at the very least very advanced carving.

[seeder]

Abramelin, on 17 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

They were at least a 1000 years older or more.

Hope you liked that post Abe?

[TheOtherSide1945]

seeder, on 17 January 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

The Parthenon is 1000 years older than puma punku, google an image if you dont know what it looks like, it was one of the best ever ancient buildings, and still stands, zillion times better than PP

and 1000 years before it

the thing about it is that you can look at it and see how they could have built it. is there any monolithic stones used to construct it? i mean you can easily have built that with rope, slaves, and very good craftsmen. when you have slabs that are 131 tons its a different story. then they had to get it up a mountain, or were they quarried on site? if they were quarried on site where are all the tools and stones they made errors on? isn't the orginal build no longer standing as if it were blown up? i guess it could be argued that the stones laying around that were from the supposed explosion or whatever destroyed it, are in fact the throw away stones.

[Slave2Fate]

Lord Vetinari, on 17 January 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

I think they would. What else might they see it as? Something unprecedented, particularly if it was coming out of the Sky, and if it was brightly lit, would most probably be seen as, depending on their cultural backgriound, either a god in person or a message from the God, I'd have thought. They wouldn't have thought of it as a balloon, or flares, after all.

I think they would have seen them as strange visitors surely however if an alien were to pour water from a shiny metal flask the ancients would then assume that alien must be Bill the Giver of Life (water)? That's a bit of a stretch I think.

[seeder]

TheOtherSide1945, on 17 January 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

the thing about it is that you can look at it and see how they could have built it. is there any monolithic stones used to construct it? i mean you can easily have built that with rope, slaves, and very good craftsmen. when

you have slabs that are 131 tons

thats nothing, did you know the heaviest monolith in the world is in China and it was made during the Ming Dynasty. "The Stele base" in the Yangshan Quarry of Nanking, China, weighs 16,250 tons! This ancient monolith measures 30.35 meters long, 13 meters wide, and 16 meters high.

see:
http://thescaleofkin...angshan-quarry/

Then see this list on heavy monoliths is size order around the world and then come back to me!

http://en.wikipedia....rried_monoliths

PP was childs play compared to loads of them. In fact it didnt even make the above list! Its just that zoser doesn't research...he just watches youtube and gets convinced

Edited by seeder, 17 January 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[TheOtherSide1945]

seeder, on 17 January 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

thats nothing, did you know the heaviest monolith in the world is in China and it was made during the Ming Dynasty. "The Stele base" in the Yangshan Quarry of Nanking, China, weighs 16,250 tons! This ancient monolith measures 30.35 meters long, 13 meters wide, and 16 meters high.

see this list on heavy monoliths is size order around the world and then come back to me!

http://en.wikipedia....rried_monoliths

PP was childs play compared to loads of them. Its just that zoser doesn't search

http://en.wikipedia....rried_monoliths

the heaviest  ever was 16, 000 tonnes

they never moved it though(theone in CHina). standing up one giant obelisk is a different story than stacking an entire building. the western stone is an interesting one i will give you that.

Edited by TheOtherSide1945, 17 January 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[seeder]

TheOtherSide1945, on 17 January 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

they never moved it though(theone in CHina). standing up one giant obelisk is a different story than stacking an entire building.

The list actually is in 2 parts, quarried, and moved.... so see the moved section, as said PP didn't even  get listed

Edited by seeder, 17 January 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[Oniomancer]

seeder, on 17 January 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

zoser needs to 'read this post before he ignores it altogether, he tends to do that when I offer evidence

Puma Punk wasnt unique, the style is in many places

And when he's done, he can read this:

http://books.google....ulpture&f=false

[Slave2Fate]

seeder, on 17 January 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

thats nothing, did you know the heaviest monolith in the world is in China and it was made during the Ming Dynasty. "The Stele base" in the Yangshan Quarry of Nanking, China, weighs 16,250 tons! This ancient monolith measures 30.35 meters long, 13 meters wide, and 16 meters high.

see:
http://thescaleofkin...angshan-quarry/

Then see this list on heavy monoliths is size order around the world and then come back to me!

http://en.wikipedia....rried_monoliths

PP was childs play compared to loads of them. In fact it didnt even make the above list! Its just that zoser doesn't research...he just watches youtube and gets convinced

What I found interesting was from your second link, a bit lower down the page.

Quote

These are listed with the largest experiments first; for additional details of most experiments see related pages.

• Marinos Carburis, lieutenant-colonel in the Russian Army, organized the move of an enormous boulder called the Thunder Stone (Russian, Камень-Гром) from the Gulf of Finland in 1768 to Saint Petersburg, Russia for the purpose of using it as a pedestal for the Bronze Horseman statue. Based on the density of granite, the mass of the Thunder Stone has been estimated to be around 1500 tonnes. This was done by rolling it on bronze ball bearings on a track. It took an estimated 400 men 9 months to move it.^[76]
  
• In 1997 Julian Richards teamed up with Mark Witby and Roger Hopkins to conduct several experiments to replicate the construction at Stonehenge for NOVA's "Secrets of Lost Empires" mini series. They initially failed to tow a 40 ton monolith with 130 men but after adding additional men towing as well as some men using levers to prod the megalith forward they succeeded in inching it forward a small distance.^[77]
  
• Roger Hopkins and Mark Lehner teamed up with a NOVA crew to conduct an Obelisk erecting experiment, they successfully erected a 25 ton obelisk in late summer of 1999. They also managed to tow it a short distance.^[78][79][80]
  
• Thor Heyerdahl organized an effort to pull a 10 ton Moai on a sledge with a group of 180 men. Approximately 18 men pulled each ton.^[81][82][83]
  
• Charles Love experimented with a 10-ton replica of a Moai on Easter Island. His first experiment found rocking the statue to walk it was too unstable over more than a few hundred yards. He then found that placing the statue upright on two sled runners atop log rollers, 25 men were able to move the statue 150 feet (46 m) in two minutes. Approximately 2.5 men pulled each ton.^[84]
  
• Austen Henry Layard organized an effort to transport 2 10 ton colossal Statues of a winged Lion and a winged Bull with a group of 300 men in 1847. He loaded them on a wheeled cart and towed them from Nimrud to the river and loaded on a barge where it was sent to London. Approximately 30 men pulled each ton.^[85]
  
• Paul Emile Botta and Victor Place attempted to move 2 additional 30 ton colossi to Paris from Khorsabad in 1853. In order to facilitate their shipment to Paris they were sawed in pieces and they still ran into problems. One of them fell into the Tigris river never to be retrieved. The other made it to Paris.^[85]
  
• Giovanni Battista Belzoni organized an effort to pull a 7.5 ton fragment of a statue of Ramses on rollers with a group of 130 men in 1815. This statue was towed to the river and loaded on a barge where it was sent to London. Progress increased with practice as they went along. Approximately 17 or 18 men pulled each ton.^[86]
  
• Henri Chevrier organized an effort to pull a 6 ton block on a sledge with a group of 6 men. Approximately 1 man pulled each ton.^[87] other reports claim that Chevier's experiment required 3 men to pull each ton.^[88]
  
• Josh Bernstein and Julian Richards organized an effort to pull a 2 ton stone on wooden tracks with a group of about 16 men. Approximately 8 men pulled each ton.^[89]
  
• Mark Lehner and NOVA organized an experiment to tow stones and to build a pyramid 9 meters wide by 9 meters deep by 6 meters high. They were able to tow a 2 ton block on a sledge across wood tracks with 12 to 20 men. Approximately 6 to 10 men pulled each ton. The pyramid was 54 cubic meters total estimated weight 135 tons. It was built out of 186 stones. The average weight of each stone was almost 1,500 lb (680 kg). (.75 tons) They found that 4 or 5 men could use levers to flip stones less than a ton and roll them to transport them. 44 men took 22 days to complete the pyramid including the carving of the stones. They used iron to carve the stones that wasn't available to the ancient Egyptians. Egyptians had to use copper. They also used a modern front end loader to accelerate the work on the lower courses. They were unable to use the front end loader to install the capstone since it was too high and had to use levers to raise it to 20 feet (6.1 m).^[90]
  
• In a 2001 exercise in experimental archaeology, an attempt was made to transport a large stone along a land and sea route from Wales to Stonehenge. Volunteers pulled it for some miles (with great difficulty) on a wooden sledge over land, using modern roads and low-friction netting to assist sliding, but once transferred to a replica prehistoric boat, the stone sank in Milford Haven, before it even reached the rough seas of the Bristol Channel.^[91]
  
• Roger Hopkins and Vince Lee both theorized about how the megalithic stones were moved at Baalbek, these theories involved either towing them or flipping them.^[92]
  
• Vince Lee participated in experiments to test his theories about how the walls of Sacsayhuamán were built.^[92]

[TheOtherSide1945]

seeder, on 17 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

The list actually is in 2 parts, quarried, and moved.... so see the moved section, as said PP didn't even  get listed

hmmm, most of this is from egypt and its the same thing we dont know how they built that. the russian ones they used manpower for so much but most of the transport was done by ship. not up the side of a mountain.

[Slave2Fate]

TheOtherSide1945, on 17 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

hmmm, most of this is from egypt and its the same thing we dont know how they built that. the russian ones they used manpower for so much but most of the transport was done by ship. not up the side of a mountain.

The only difference would be the method and the required workforce. It wouldn't be impossible with the correct application of both.

[Harte]

TheOtherSide1945, on 17 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

the other thing is if anciant man was smart enough to come up with the astronomical knowledge given to them by "gods" and were advanced enough to make Gobli Tempe(sp?) and Puma Punku, then why would they make up these stories based on nothing? I mean wouldnt they say WE built puma punku not an unkown race of giants?

No westerner ever spoke to the builders of Puma Punku so your argument is flawed there.

The Inca came after the culture that built PP, hence their statement that they didn't build it.

Whoever did, they left behind evidence of agricultural and irrigation systems that would befit a hundred thousand people or more, along with the accompanying artifacts.

Harte