6 replies to this topic

[moundbuilder]

Ancient Indiana?  Indiana has over 85 burial mound and geometric earthworks.  This is the list with Photos from "The Nephilim Chronicles: A Travel Guide to the Ancient Ruins in the Ohio Valley"   85 burial mound and earthwork sites can still be found in Indiana.  Only 2 are these are recognized as historic sites.  Recently University archaeological Grave Robbers received a grant of $200,000 to find what was left in the State. *snip*

Edited by Saru, 11 April 2012 - 01:52 PM.
Removed book promotion

[BMan375032]

Wow, that's in my neck of the woods and didn't even realize it. I know where I am going on my next joyride. Thanks moundbuilder

[Swede]

moundbuilder, on 10 April 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

Ancient Indiana?  Indiana has over 85 burial mound and geometric earthworks.  This is the list with Photos from "The Nephilim Chronicles: A Travel Guide to the Ancient Ruins in the Ohio Valley"   85 burial mound and earthwork sites can still be found in Indiana.  Only 2 are these are recognized as historic sites.  Recently University archaeological Grave Robbers received a grant of $200,000 to find what was left in the State.

Fritz - Rather than continuing with your endless self-promotion and spewing of misunderstood information, perhaps you would benefit from studies of the qualified research that has been conducted. For example:

These are the top ten Indian mounds and earthworks that can still be  visited in Indiana that were constructed by the Allegewi (Adena) and  Hopewell (a confederation of Sioux, Iroquois Cherokee and Allegewi)   None of these earthworks are "preserved." (The Nephilim Chronicles).

As has been repeatedly stressed, the Hopewell Interaction Sphere was not a confederation. Nor is there any certainty as to the direct associations of the builders of these features with recent/current Indigenous groups. In this regard, and more specifically related to Mounds State Park, Indiana:

The name of the people who built the Anderson Mounds site more than 2,000 years ago is lost to us. There are no direct and archaeologically traceable lines to historically known native people. (Cochran and McCord 2001:36).

For those interested in a more comprehensive presentation of the archaeological research that has been conducted at Mounds State Park, the full reference cited above may be of interest. Will assist with interpretive questions if desired.

http://cardinalschol...939/1/RoI61.pdf

Fritz - You may also wish to consult:

Birmingham and Eisenberg
2000 Indian Mounds of Wisconsin. University of Wisconsin Press.

You may find their discussion of upper world/lower world cosmology in relation to effigy mound construction to be enlightening.

Your angst in regards to qualified research is none too transparently based upon the professional rejection of your mid-nineteenth century claims. Further valid research would be recommended.


Edit: Typo.

[moundbuilder]

Swede, on 11 April 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Fritz - Rather than continuing with your endless self-promotion and spewing of misunderstood information, perhaps you would benefit from studies of the qualified research that has been conducted. For example:

These are the top ten Indian mounds and earthworks that can still be  visited in Indiana that were constructed by the Allegewi (Adena) and  Hopewell (a confederation of Sioux, Iroquois Cherokee and Allegewi)   None of these earthworks are "preserved." (The Nephilim Chronicles).

As has been repeatedly stressed, the Hopewell Interaction Sphere was not a confederation. Nor is there any certainty as to the direct associations of the builders of these features with recent/current Indigenous groups. In this regard, and more specifically related to Mounds State Park, Indiana:

The name of the people who built the Anderson Mounds site more than 2,000 years ago is lost to us. There are no direct and archaeologically traceable lines to historically known native people. (Cochran and McCord 2001:36).

For those interested in a more comprehensive presentation of the archaeological research that has been conducted at Mounds State Park, the full reference cited above may be of interest. Will assist with interpretive questions if desired.

http://cardinalschol...939/1/RoI61.pdf

Fritz - You may also wish to consult:

Birmingham and Eisenberg
2000 Indian Mounds of Wisconsin. University of Wisconsin Press.

You may find their discussion of upper world/lower world cosmology in relation to effigy mound construction to be enlightening.

Your angst in regards to qualified research is none too transparently based upon the professional rejection of your mid-nineteenth century claims. Further valid research would be recommended.


Edit: Typo.

More archaeological babble with no conclusions.
Here whats not in that report about Mounds State Park
1) The large henge (yes, its a henge) is 210 feet in diameter or 660 feet in circumference,  This is the same size as other henges at Cambridge City, Indiana, Chillicothe Ohio and Athens Ohio.
2.) The fact that the Winchester, Indiana rectangular earthwork is 1320 feet (660 + 660) shows an understanding of advanced mathematics
3.) The shapes of the earthworks at Mounds State Park were constructed to represent both the Earth Mother (what is known as the "fiddleback mound") and the Sun Father
     It worth noting that another fiddle shaped mound is (was) located at New Castle, Indiana that was also 215 in length.(The mound at New Castle as been nearly destroyed by archaeologists)  This number or measurement can also be found the large mound at Marietta and in the large works around Chillicothe such as the Seip earthwork.
4.) The solar alignments at Mounds State Park were discovered Edwin Davis, who confided with Ball State, who rejected his claim, only to print his discovery months later, giving him no credit.  
5.) The Sioux Indian who were known mound builders have legends that they once lived on the Ohio Valley and were the builders of the works there. There religion of 8 gods, sun and earth deities matches perfectly with the symbolism shown within the shapes of the mounds.
6.) As I travel across the Midwest giving presentations, people are gathering to stop further archaeological destruction and to preserve Ancient America. Indiana archaeologist have already been denied access to Yorktown henge and New Castle (this shows the destruction done to this site by idiot archaeologists
7.) "Qualified research" means having no idea of where any of the antiquities are in Indiana, no comprehension of the meaning and symbolism of the earthworks, no idea who constructed the mounds and earthworks, no ideas as to where they came from, nor where they went..right.  So "qualified" is the  same as "ignorant"

[Swede]

moundbuilder, on 11 April 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

More archaeological babble with no conclusions.
Here whats not in that report about Mounds State Park
1) The large henge (yes, its a henge) is 210 feet in diameter or 660 feet in circumference,  This is the same size as other henges at Cambridge City, Indiana, Chillicothe Ohio and Athens Ohio.
2.) The fact that the Winchester, Indiana rectangular earthwork is 1320 feet (660 + 660) shows an understanding of advanced mathematics
3.) The shapes of the earthworks at Mounds State Park were constructed to represent both the Earth Mother (what is known as the "fiddleback mound") and the Sun Father
It worth noting that another fiddle shaped mound is (was) located at New Castle, Indiana that was also 215 in length.(The mound at New Castle as been nearly destroyed by archaeologists)  This number or measurement can also be found the large mound at Marietta and in the large works around Chillicothe such as the Seip earthwork.
4.) The solar alignments at Mounds State Park were discovered Edwin Davis, who confided with Ball State, who rejected his claim, only to print his discovery months later, giving him no credit.  
5.) The Sioux Indian who were known mound builders have legends that they once lived on the Ohio Valley and were the builders of the works there. There religion of 8 gods, sun and earth deities matches perfectly with the symbolism shown within the shapes of the mounds.
6.) As I travel across the Midwest giving presentations, people are gathering to stop further archaeological destruction and to preserve Ancient America. Indiana archaeologist have already been denied access to Yorktown henge and New Castle (this shows the destruction done to this site by idiot archaeologists
7.) "Qualified research" means having no idea of where any of the antiquities are in Indiana, no comprehension of the meaning and symbolism of the earthworks, no idea who constructed the mounds and earthworks, no ideas as to where they came from, nor where they went..right.  So "qualified" is the  same as "ignorant"

To address your comments in the order presented:

1) In referencing "large henge", would you be referring to the Great Mound? If so, the total earthwork is 350+ ft in diameter (Cochran and McCord 2001:9). Also, given the standard definition of a henge, by what means have you concluded that the Great Mound is a henge?

2) This response is rather strange. Given the literally thousands of earthworks associated with the Hopewell Interaction Sphere, and the documented material and cultural interactions, why would this be considered to be of particular significance? As to "advanced mathematics", a stick and a section of cordage would be difficult to categorize as "advanced mathematics". But, more to the point, are you implying that the Amerindians that built these earthworks would not be capable of such?

3) By what means have you ascertained an "earth mother/sun father" symbology/cosmology? Documentation? It should also be noted that New Castle ceramics were recovered from the Fiddleback enclosure. Given the extent of the cultural interactions that have been documented specifically in eastern Indiana, there is no real mystery here.

4) In what year did Davis approach Ball State? Can you verify this encounter and date?

5) That Siouxan speakers may have had involvement in the Hopewell Tradition is hardly news. One should, however, understand the cultural aspects. To equate the cultural aspects of the Hopewell period to those of more modern representatives would be a disservice to the complexities of Amerindian history. To do such would be akin to equating the Germanic speakers of Caesar's time to those of recent history. As to the religious matter, would you care to provide us with the basis for this "interpretation"?

6) First, the photo you present is decades old. Methodologies have changed significantly. You really would benefit from utilizing more current information. But this does present an interesting conundrum. You would appear to wish to understand more about this cultural period. Without qualified investigation, how is such knowledge to be obtained?

7) If you actually had the qualifications to access the site files of any state, you would find that the number of documented sites is quite extensive, often ranging into five digits per state. The matter of symbolism and/or astronomical alignment of the Adena/Hopewell earthworks has been the topic of extensive study. Would again refer you to Birmingham and Eisenberg for an introduction to the topic, in addition to the paper by Cochran and McCord recently presented. Be aware, however, that qualified research is not inclined to jump to conclusions that can not be well verified. A point that you may wish to consider.

The current research demonstrates (and has for quite some time) that the earthworks are a product of Indigenous cultural elements. These groups were part of some of the preceding Archaic cultural groups. Their transition into the later Woodland period is also not of great mystery per se. The "mysteries" lie more in further understanding the cultural and possibly environmental aspects that led the development and later "dissolution" of this Tradition.

This period has been the subject of extensive study for quite some time. Below are just a small fraction of the papers produced in regards to the period. You may wish to obtain and study them.

Richard W. Yerkes
2005 Bone Chemistry, Body Parts, and Growth Marks: Evaluating Ohio Hopewell and Cahokia Mississippian Seasonality, Subsistence, Ritual, and Feasting. American Antiquity, Vol. 70, No. 2, pp. 241-265.

Margaret M. Bender, David A. Baerreis, Raymond L. Steventon
     1981 Further Light on Carbon Isotopes and Hopewell Agriculture. American Antiquity, Vol. 46, No. 2, pp. 346-353.

Matthew S. Coon
   2009 Variation in Ohio Hopewell Political Economies. American Antiquity, Vol. 74, No. 1, pp. 49-76.

Deborah A. Bolnick and David Glenn Smith
   2007 Migration and Social Structure among the Hopewell: Evidence from Ancient DNA. American Antiquity, Vol. 72, No. 4, pp. 627-644.

Arlene L. Fraikor, James J. Hester, Frederick J. Fraikor
1971 Metallurgical Analysis of a Hopewell Copper Earspool. American Antiquity, Vol. 36, No. 3, pp. 358-361.

Julieann Van Nest, Douglas K. Charles, Jane E. Buikstra, David L. Asch
2001 Sod Blocks in Illinois Hopewell Mounds. American Antiquity, Vol. 66, No. 4, pp. 633-650.

Christopher M. Stevenson, Ihab Abdelrehim, Steven W. Novak.
     2004 High Precision Measurement of Obsidian Hydration Layers on Artifacts from the Hopewell Site Using Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry. American Antiquity, Vol. 69, No. 3, pp. 555-567.

Mark F. Seeman
   1988 Ohio Hopewell Trophy-Skull Artifacts as Evidence for Competition in Middle Woodland Societies Circa 50 B.C.. A.D. 350. American Antiquity, Vol. 53, No. 3, pp. 565-577.

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[Myles]

Indiana does have its share of mounds.

[Swede]

Myles, on 13 April 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Indiana does have its share of mounds.

It most certainly does. Indiana has a rich history, both pre-contact and post-contact. The problem with Fritz's promotions lies in the more than questionable "interpretations" of said history.

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