366 replies to this topic

[TheSearcher]

Ignoring the large body of evidence and the testimonies of the actual crop circle makers themselves, that they are man made, is also untenable. As far as an argument goes, this works both ways.

[laver]

TheSearcher, on 16 January 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Ignoring the large body of evidence and the testimonies of the actual crop circle makers themselves, that they are man made, is also untenable. As far as an argument goes, this works both ways.

Chalk and cheese. Lots of witnesses who have no axe to grind against someone who for some reason wants to try and convince us that all crop circles are of human origin with heresay comments like 'I did not make this one but it is a human creation'. Agreed humans could have made one like it but the facts indicate they do not make them all for a large number of reasons.

[TheSearcher]

Ok, fair enough. Have you seen a UFO? Have you seen how a crop circle is made? Because unless you did, everything you say is "hearsay" as well.
As to what the facts indicate, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because to me the facts indicate something entirely different.

[DingoLingo]

laver, on 16 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Agreed humans could have made one like it but the facts indicate they do not make them all for a large number of reasons.

Who's facts.. and what reasons?

So far I have yet to see a FACT that says they were not human made..

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

DingoLingo, on 17 January 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Who's facts.. and what reasons?

So far I have yet to see a FACT that says they were not human made..

"they're too complex"
"there's mathematics encoded into them"
"they appear overnight"
"drunk men with a plank of wood are idiots"

and my personal favourite

"because occam's razor says so".

[laver]

TheSearcher, on 16 January 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

Ok, fair enough. Have you seen a UFO? Have you seen how a crop circle is made? Because unless you did, everything you say is "hearsay" as well.
As to what the facts indicate, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because to me the facts indicate something entirely different.

No I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.
Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.
Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

[laver]

DingoLingo, on 17 January 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Who's facts.. and what reasons?

So far I have yet to see a FACT that says they were not human made..

I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.
Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.
Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

laver, on 17 January 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

People have been seeing the signs of the end of the world, including based on evidence from the Book of Revelation, since ten minutes after it was written.
We are no more, and no less, likely to be living in a Biblical end time now then we have been in the last 2000 years.

[laver]

Wearer of Hats, on 17 January 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

People have been seeing the signs of the end of the world, including based on evidence from the Book of Revelation, since ten minutes after it was written.
We are no more, and no less, likely to be living in a Biblical end time now then we have been in the last 2000 years.

I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.
Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.
Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

Regarding the matter of Occum's Razor there are too many unanswered questions if we just said 'all crop designs are designed and made by humans', too many facts about the matter that would not fit this proposal. So it is a matter of each person's individual mind set as to the probabilty either way. Arthur C Clarke said that the chances of Earth having been visited from outside during its long history far outweighed the chances that it had not. So if we have inexplicable signs that we may be getting messages from outside this orb of ours and human creation does not fit the facts of the matter to say that these come from elsewhere is the simplest and most straightforward answer and hence quite in keeping with the principle of Occum's Razor.

[TheSearcher]

laver, on 17 January 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

No I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.
Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.
Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

So it's all hearsay, if I apply your own rules on judging others and thus means nothing. thanks for confirming.

[laver]

TheSearcher, on 17 January 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

So it's all hearsay, if I apply your own rules on judging others and thus means nothing. thanks for confirming.

As I said chalk and cheese; the independant witnesses I refer to have actually seen things and gain credibility by the numbers involved. One opinion from a non observer giving his opinion on what someone else has done clearly would not have the same standing and be hearsay.
People who make crop circles and seem to have an agenda of trying to convince everyone that all crop circles are of human origin have a problem because they never know where and when the designs are going to appear, like the rest of us. So it would be impossible to organise their lives in such a way that if they personally claimed the design to be their work  evidence might not come to light that they were in fact doing something else at the time.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

there are hundres, if not thousands, of people clamouring for Obama's birth certificate to prove he's from Kenya. Numbers of people believing something does not mean it's true.

[TheSearcher]

laver, on 17 January 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

As I said chalk and cheese; the independant witnesses I refer to have actually seen things and gain credibility by the numbers involved. One opinion from a non observer giving his opinion on what someone else has done clearly would not have the same standing and be hearsay.
People who make crop circles and seem to have an agenda of trying to convince everyone that all crop circles are of human origin have a problem because they never know where and when the designs are going to appear, like the rest of us. So it would be impossible to organise their lives in such a way that if they personally claimed the design to be their work  evidence might not come to light that they were in fact doing something else at the time.

So the testimony of someone who has actually made crop circles, links which were given to you several times, are hearsay? Yet you refer to it as a non observer? What a wondrous world you live in.

[laver]

TheSearcher, on 17 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

So the testimony of someone who has actually made crop circles, links which were given to you several times, are hearsay? Yet you refer to it as a non observer? What a wondrous world you live in.

The testimony of someone who has not made the design in question is hearsay and often speculation so of little value in a search for the truth. Please remember that just because some crop circles are clearly man made does not mean all crop designs are so made if the evidence makes this impossible.

[laver]

Wearer of Hats, on 17 January 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

there are hundres, if not thousands, of people clamouring for Obama's birth certificate to prove he's from Kenya. Numbers of people believing something does not mean it's true.

So true, but that is why we look for evidence in crop design creation which does not tie in with human creation in some circles and do not rely on prejudice.