Russian "Aid" convoy enters Ukraine illegally

[keithisco]

Almost 300 lorries loaded with what? Have basically thumbed it's nose to International Law, and respect for Sovereign Nation Boundary Integrity. The International Red Cross will have nothing to do with this convoy - which is a very telling statement.

IMO - Putin is pushing for Ukraine to physically stop the convoy, to give him an excuse to intervene overtly with his military.

Lorries from a Russian aid convoy are streaming into Ukraine, without permission, after Russia accused Ukraine of obstructing it.

Russia's foreign ministry said Ukraine had held up the convoy in order to pursue war against rebels in Luhansk, where the aid is destined.

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said it was "not part of that convoy in any way".

Source (BBC): http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28892525

[libstaK]

Two things struck me:

"We are warning against any attempts to sabotage this purely humanitarian mission, which was prepared a long time ago, in an atmosphere of full transparency and in co-operation with the Ukrainian side and the ICRC," the Russian foreign ministry said.

and

"Foreign journalists were allowed to look into the Russian lorries earlier and found they contained humanitarian supplies such as baby food and cereals."

Why is there so much angst and mystery about a humanitarian convoy which was agreed to "a long time ago" and inspected by "foreign journalists".

Well ....... what constitutes a long time ago? and what were the specifics of that agreement?

Also ....... who are these vague "foreign journalists" and why has the fact that they have looked inside not formed a part of any international news report?

The whole thing is very odd and I can't get a grip on whether it is because of sensationalist reporting by the media, or disinformation about transparency and witnesses by the Russians. Need a little help here. Anybody have anything solid on what those two statements in the article actually refer to "specifically"?

Edited August 22, 2014 by libstaK

[stevewinn]

The Russian aid convoy better be very careful, Ukraine seven days ago said they attacked and disabled at least half of a Russian armoured column. with no evidence whatsoever of the event from anyone, including international journalists (guardian) who are said to have witnessed the event. - Just two days later another story broke. but this time of another convoy, a civilian - refugee convoy being attacked and all the people in that convoy being killed. Ukraine blamed Pro-Russian fighters. But details are very sketchy. It's not beyond the realms of possibility the Ukrainians attacked this refugee convoy thinking it was Russian. and that's where the reports of the Russian Armoured convoy attack are coming from. both events are only separated by two days.

BBC story has no detail whatsoever.

Ukraine convoy attack: 'Bodies recovered' in Luhansk

Fifteen bodies have been retrieved from the scene of an attack on a convoy of refugees in eastern Ukraine, a Ukrainian military spokesman says. Earlier, a rebel source told the BBC no-one had survived an attack on a convoy of refugees in the Luhansk area on Monday. Ukraine has accused pro-Russian rebels of attacking the convoy but they have denied involvement.

That is the sum of the reporting. - Why hasn't this story been front page, headline news. after all, it's suppose to be an incident where Pro-Russia fighters has attacked and killed Refugees. - But the story has died a death without the uproar you'd expect from such action. Why?

[RoofGardener]

There is also the possibility that this is a genuine aid convoy (e.g. not carrying weapons or anything), but that it has been ordered to act in a suspicious manner in order to provoke an over-reaction from the Ukranian government, in turn providing a pretext for Russian troops to enter the area to "protect" future convoys.

[seeder]

There is also the possibility that this is a genuine aid convoy (e.g. not carrying weapons or anything), but that it has been ordered to act in a suspicious manner in order to provoke an over-reaction from the Ukranian government, in turn providing a pretext for Russian troops to enter the area to "protect" future convoys.

This is all getting a bit paranoid. The trucks are carrying aid, they invited journalists to look, and it was shown on the BBC news. The aid is for the people who have had NO power, NO water, NO food. for god knows how long. 330-000 people have been displaced due to the fighting....Im sure they are feeling hungry/thirsty and will benefit from sleeping bags and tents and food/water

Its just AID!! And Russia has issued a warning as the trucks are driven by Russians, to HELP the displaced.

[spud the mackem]

Putin's at it again,using this "aid" convoy for propaganda purposes, like acting the good guys, so if the Ukrainians stop it the Russians can go viral saying we are only trying to help and the Ukranians are against helping people....very clever...davstryeche

[questionmark]

Putin's at it again,using this "aid" convoy for propaganda purposes, like acting the good guys, so if the Ukrainians stop it the Russians can go viral saying we are only trying to help and the Ukranians are against helping people....very clever...davstryeche

If the Ukrainians had any brains now they should block the Eastern part of Rebel county and not let anybody of them out unless they pay 1000 Rubles fine for illegally passing the border.... That could bring some interesting statements from the driver...

[keithisco]

This is all getting a bit paranoid. The trucks are carrying aid, they invited journalists to look, and it was shown on the BBC news. The aid is for the people who have had NO power, NO water, NO food. for god knows how long. 330-000 people have been displaced due to the fighting....Im sure they are feeling hungry/thirsty and will benefit from sleeping bags and tents and food/water

Its just AID!! And Russia has issued a warning as the trucks are driven by Russians, to HELP the displaced.

BUT... so many of these trucks appear to be empty.... The International Red Cross have said that they have no input into this convoy, and do not want anything to do with it - that in itself informs you that something is not right. It is so easy to hide C4, Semtex, etc into any spare volume. NO, there is something rotten here...

[seeder]

BUT... so many of these trucks appear to be empty.... The International Red Cross have said that they have no input into this convoy, and do not want anything to do with it - that in itself informs you that something is not right. It is so easy to hide C4, Semtex, etc into any spare volume. NO, there is something rotten here...

I addressed this on the other thread..the BBC journalist on TV news, showed 'one' truck with just a few boxes.. one truck.. to be clever he wanted a random truck opened, and it was full..

If you can demonstrate otherwise please do and I will revise my comments

[seeder]

Found my other post!!

seeder, on 16 August 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

In the news I saw (BBC), a reporter filmed 'one' empty truck... he then went to another truck and asked for it to be opened, and it had goods in there. So whats the truth? A single empty truck? Blown out of all proportion? Or does anyone have vids/links to confirm that more than one was empty?

Now found the vid... he 'says' there are empty trucks, but only finds/films the one... plus let me quote stevewinn: "As in any aid convoy, done on military planning and scale through a potential conflict zone, i cannot remember recommended figure but a percentage of the convoy will be empty. this is done in case a number of vehicles break down on route"

[TSS]

Found my other post!!

seeder, on 16 August 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

In the news I saw (BBC), a reporter filmed 'one' empty truck... he then went to another truck and asked for it to be opened, and it had goods in there. So whats the truth? A single empty truck? Blown out of all proportion? Or does anyone have vids/links to confirm that more than one was empty?

Now found the vid... he 'says' there are empty trucks, but only finds/films the one... plus let me quote stevewinn: "As in any aid convoy, done on military planning and scale through a potential conflict zone, i cannot remember recommended figure but a percentage of the convoy will be empty. this is done in case a number of vehicles break down on route"

[media=]

[/media]

That is the convoy that the Red Cross spokesman was on TV saying they had direct contact in helping to co-ordinate etc.....this report says the red cross do not want anything to do with the convoy in the article in the OP. So either something has happened that has made the Red Cross suspicious, or we are talking about a different convoy.

Edited August 22, 2014 by The Sky Scanner

[questionmark]

That is the convoy that the Red Cross spokesman was on TV saying they had direct contact in helping to co-ordinate etc.....this report says the red cross do not want anything to do with the convoy in the article in the OP. So either something has happened that has made the Red Cross suspicious, or we are talking about a different convoy.

Ah, finally somebody who reads the whole article before subscribing to the opinion of Russia Today!

[seeder]

That is the convoy that the Red Cross spokesman was on TV saying they had direct contact in helping to co-ordinate etc.....this report says the red cross do not want anything to do with the convoy in the article in the OP. So either something has happened that has made the Red Cross suspicious, or we are talking about a different convoy.

The Red Cross would have done it - if Kiev and the Rebels guaranteed their safety.

[TSS]

The Red Cross would have done it - if Kiev and the Rebels guaranteed their safety.

I'm not following you, first the Red Cross said they had a major hand in organising the convoy of a week or so ago....today they said "not part of that convoy in any way" ...so what are you saying has gone on then?

[seeder]

I'm not following you, first the Red Cross said they had a major hand in organising the convoy of a week or so ago....today they said "not part of that convoy in any way" ...so what are you saying has gone on then?

I can only say what Ive read and seen on the telly, heres a quote:

RED CROSS DECLINES TO ESCORT

The International Committee for the Red Cross, which both Moscow and Kiev had agreed should supervise the convoy, said it was not escorting it "due to the volatile security situation".

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/uk-ukraine-crisis-idUKKBN0GL1VH20140822

[keithisco]

The Russian aid convoy better be very careful, Ukraine seven days ago said they attacked and disabled at least half of a Russian armoured column. with no evidence whatsoever of the event from anyone, including international journalists (guardian) who are said to have witnessed the event. - Just two days later another story broke. but this time of another convoy, a civilian - refugee convoy being attacked and all the people in that convoy being killed. Ukraine blamed Pro-Russian fighters. But details are very sketchy. It's not beyond the realms of possibility the Ukrainians attacked this refugee convoy thinking it was Russian. and that's where the reports of the Russian Armoured convoy attack are coming from. both events are only separated by two days.

BBC story has no detail whatsoever.

That is the sum of the reporting. - Why hasn't this story been front page, headline news. after all, it's suppose to be an incident where Pro-Russia fighters has attacked and killed Refugees. - But the story has died a death without the uproar you'd expect from such action. Why?

Steve, you are referring directly to another thread that is still open on the forum. This thread is unrelated to it. Please do not try to hijack this thread by referring to another issue.

In this case, the fundamentals are completely different. This is about the Russian "Aid" convoy breaking ALL norms of International Law and effectively starting an Invasion. If you do not believe that the International Red Cross actually stated their position that they in no way support or are involved in this "Convoy" then please state your reasons.

This story IS front page...

[keithisco]

I'm not following you, first the Red Cross said they had a major hand in organising the convoy of a week or so ago....today they said "not part of that convoy in any way" ...so what are you saying has gone on then?

Simple really... the Red Cross did not have access to all of the trucks - they therefore cannot support this convoy as a purely humanitarian gesture from Putin. They also had no part in the logistics of the convoy in the first place - it was just a Political Ploy from Putin.

[aztek]

The Russian military has moved artillery units manned by Russian personnel inside Ukrainian territory in recent days and is using them to fire at Ukrainian forces, NATO officials said on Friday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/russia-moves-artillery_n_5700537.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[seeder]

Simple really... the Red Cross did not have access to all of the trucks -

Proof please? If none then withdraw this statement

[aztek]

Proof please? If none then withdraw this statement

looks like you should withdraw yours.

Meanwhile, another 90 vehicles are headed toward the Ukrainian border, according to Col. Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for Ukraine's National Defense and Security Council. Ukrainian border guards, customs officers and Red Cross representatives have not been given access to that group, Lysenko said.

Still, Ukraine's government has suspicions. Nalyvaychenko said he believes the neither the trucks nor the drivers are civilian. The drivers, he said, received Russian passports only two weeks ago -- days before Moscow started sending the convoy to the border.

http://www.cnn.com/2...isis/index.html

Edited August 22, 2014 by aztek

[seeder]

looks like you should withdraw yours.

Meanwhile, another 90 vehicles are headed toward the Ukrainian border, according to Col. Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for Ukraine's National Defense and Security Council. Ukrainian border guards, customs officers and Red Cross representatives have not been given access to that group, Lysenko said.

Still, Ukraine's government has suspicions. Nalyvaychenko said he believes the neither the trucks nor the drivers are civilian. The drivers, he said, received Russian passports only two weeks ago -- days before Moscow started sending the convoy to the border.

http://www.cnn.com/2...isis/index.html

read it again..

[aztek]

why? which part of " Red Cross representatives have not been given access to that group" do you not get?

[TSS]

Simple really... the Red Cross did not have access to all of the trucks - they therefore cannot support this convoy as a purely humanitarian gesture from Putin. They also had no part in the logistics of the convoy in the first place - it was just a Political Ploy from Putin.

Got it. I missed that somehow

[keithisco]

Proof please? If none then withdraw this statement

Is it really that difficult to read my sources?

If YOU have sources to the contrary (i.e. that the Red Cross does NOT have anything whatsoever to do with this convoy) then provide them.... otherwise YOU withdraw your personal statements - unsupported by any Aid Agency!!

[stevewinn]

The Russians are in control, the rest - they just react. The Russian aid convoy is going to areas where there's a sizeable population of ethnic Russians. Russia will say its looking after its own. Until there is evidence the convoy is a trojan horse we'll just have to keep speculating what Vlad the mad's plan is. Truth is Whatever he decides - we cant do a thing about it except huff and puff.