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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#1396    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 04:15 AM

or, Abe, do you say the Vistula lagoon is the East Sea Aster Sea - Estmere according to the book link you gave...

I will then, the Vistula Lagoon is, imo, after much, much thought, the Aster Sea.

Posted Image
http://en.wikipedia..../Vistula_Lagoon

Based on, it being a Frisian sea, and known as the Estmere.

The North Sea is Wralda's Sea.

The Baltic Sea is the Balda Sea.

The Middel Sea is the Mediterranean.

All on a N - S alignment to Italy.

The locations above and also:

Bedrum = sleeping place - space

Wagrum = wall - space


Those are points I am pretty definite on now.

The language is not Latin based but Nordic and German and those 2 words can be explained as above.

If the Vistula lagoon was known as the Aster Sea, it makes sense the people are called the Estonians right there too, Finno-Urgit speakers.

It also makes sense that Phaethon is from there now especially since the name stands for Dawn, Eos. The mother of Phaethon is the Vistula Lagoon with the amber drops, right at the mouth of the Vistula River, that Herodotus says is the Eridanus, precisely where the amber trade came into the Balkans from.

Edited by The Puzzler, 25 October 2010 - 05:01 AM.

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#1397    Alewyn

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:54 AM

If this debate (and the silence)is anything to go by,The Dutch and the Frisians do not deserve the Oera Linda Book.


#1398    Otharus

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:32 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 25 October 2010 - 06:54 AM, said:

If this debate (and the silence) is anything to go by,The Dutch and the Frisians do not deserve the Oera Linda Book.
There is no such thing as "the" Dutch or "the" Frisians; people have always been coming and going.

The culture of the Netherlands suffers from what could be called multiple personality disorder or identity crisis. (Doesn't the whole world?)

I guess that more than 95% of the population has never even heard of the OLB.

The manuscript should be studied by an international, intercultural, multidisciplinary group of researchers.

I hereby volunteer.

Edited by Otharus, 25 October 2010 - 08:05 AM.


#1399    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:32 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 25 October 2010 - 06:54 AM, said:

If this debate (and the silence)is anything to go by,The Dutch and the Frisians do not deserve the Oera Linda Book.
I just made 11 posts since this morning, hardly quiet, I'm in Australia, I think everyone else is in bed now....I'm pretty much talking to myself at this time of day.

The Frisians deserve it, I do believe it is their history. They are originators of the English language and the Anglo-Saxons, after the Celts and prior to the Norman invasion, I believe they did trade in the Nordic Bronze Age and I think the OLB is true, everything is falling into place now.


The name Germany or Germanics only came into usage with the Romans, these people were there, their language is Germanic and IE, just like Old English. I have translated wagrum which no one commented on, into Germanic as in wattle-work wall space to write on and bedrum as sleeping place space.

I might not agree your whole book is correct Alewyn but I do think the OLB is truth after over 1000 posts in this thread.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#1400    Otharus

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:27 AM

View PostOtharus, on 21 October 2010 - 08:44 PM, said:

From: "De Rand van het Rijk ~ De Romeinen en de Lage Landen" (The Romans and the Low Lands)
Here's a scan from this book that fascinates me because of the way M and N are written (L COMINIVS), the outer lines not being vertical like in normal Roman script, but just like in the JOL-script.
Attached File  lcominivs.jpg   87.83K   8 downloads
I know it's not hard evidence, but thought some of you might like it anyway.

Edited by Otharus, 25 October 2010 - 08:30 AM.


#1401    Otharus

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:42 AM

View PostOtharus, on 25 October 2010 - 08:27 AM, said:

... but just like in the JOL-script.
Attached File  lcominivs2.JPG   46.48K   6 downloads


#1402    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:02 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 25 October 2010 - 12:06 AM, said:

Yes, this confirms it, it means dawn, eos, morning star. Austi is dawn star, not East in etymological terms.

Sorry, NO star in that link..

"...goddess of the dawn...."

You: "If you can link me to some sort of etymology that says AST equates to East that would be good. That's not Ost."


LOL, you want an etymology for Ast that would explain it means East.

Ast eAst, LOL.


Eystra-, Øster- Aster- Easter-

What more do you want?

==

EDIT:

I see Cormac already answered you:

O.E. east "east, easterly, eastward," from P.Gmc. *aus-to-, *austra- "east, toward the sunrise" (cf. O.Fris. ast "east," aster "eastward," Du. oost O.S. ost, O.H.G. ostan, Ger. Ost, O.N. austr "from the east"), from PIE *aus- "to shine," especially "dawn" (cf. Skt. ushas "dawn," Gk. aurion "morning," O.Ir. usah, Lith. auszra "dawn," L. aurora "dawn," auster "south"), lit. "to shine." The east is the direction in which dawn breaks. For theory of shift in sense in Latin, see Australia. Meaning "the eastern part of the world" (from Europe) is from c.1300. Fr. est, Sp. este are borrowings from M.E., originally nautical. Cold War use of East for "communist states" first recorded 1951. Natives of eastern Germany and the Baltics were known as easterlings 16c.-18c. The east wind in Biblical Palestine was scorching and destructive (cf. Ezek. xvii.10); in New England it is bleak, wet, unhealthful. East End of London so called by 1846; East Side of Manhattan so called from 1882; East Indies (India and Southeast Asia) so called 1590s to distinguish them from the West Indies.


What is difficult to understand about, "O.Fris. ast "east," aster "eastward" ???

Edited by Abramelin, 25 October 2010 - 10:15 AM.


#1403    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:26 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 25 October 2010 - 04:15 AM, said:

or, Abe, do you say the Vistula lagoon is the East Sea Aster Sea - Estmere according to the book link you gave...


I showed you that area was called the "Frisische Haff" in Germa, or Frisian Bay.

Then we have those Prussians or Pruteni speaking a Brittanic language according to Tacitus...

Frisians to the west of Denmark related to Brittons, Prussians/ Pruteni to the east of Denmark speaking a Britton language.... Preteni/Pruteni.


It appears to me that at some time, a people with the hypothetical name of "Phruisians" migrated form Denmark/South Sweden. One part of that tribe went west and became known as the Frisians, others went east and became known as the Prusians. The North Sea was known as the Mare Frisia (Frisian Sea), part of the Baltic was known as the Frisian Bay.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 October 2010 - 10:52 AM.


#1404    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:32 AM

And I will keep repeating that the area between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea can not be the area the OLB talks about. Just look at any map, and you will see that that area is just a small part of Bulgary and Turkey, ie the area around the Bosporus/Dardanelles. If you stretch it a bit you could add Greece, but that's it.



----------------

EDIT:

Puzz said:

Bedrum = sleeping place - space

Wagrum = wall - space


Those are points I am pretty definite on now.

The language is not Latin based but Nordic and German and those 2 words can be explained as above.



No one ever said the language is Latin based.

And I haven't seen an explanation of "wagrum" meaning wall/space.

And.. I haven't seen anything satisfactory that tells me that word 'bedrvm' isn't a modern borrowing from English, "bedroom". It's the combination of bed and room we are talking about, not just the origin of the word bed.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 October 2010 - 10:40 AM.


#1405    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:47 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 25 October 2010 - 06:54 AM, said:

If this debate (and the silence)is anything to go by,The Dutch and the Frisians do not deserve the Oera Linda Book.

That's kind of a weird remark, unless you have put all of us, Puzzler, Otharus, Cormac and me on ignore and can't read our posts...

The Dutch and Frisians.. maybe you like to check up on the Inguavones instead?


#1406    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:49 AM

View PostOtharus, on 25 October 2010 - 08:27 AM, said:

Here's a scan from this book that fascinates me because of the way M and N are written (L COMINIVS), the outer lines not being vertical like in normal Roman script, but just like in the JOL-script.
Attachment lcominivs.jpg
I know it's not hard evidence, but thought some of you might like it anyway.

Nice find.

But if you can find the Jol script version of -th- too, then I think you hit jackpot.


#1407    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:56 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 25 October 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

I just made 11 posts since this morning, hardly quiet, I'm in Australia, I think everyone else is in bed now....I'm pretty much talking to myself at this time of day.

The Frisians deserve it, I do believe it is their history. They are originators of the English language and the Anglo-Saxons, after the Celts and prior to the Norman invasion, I believe they did trade in the Nordic Bronze Age and I think the OLB is true, everything is falling into place now.


The name Germany or Germanics only came into usage with the Romans, these people were there, their language is Germanic and IE, just like Old English. I have translated wagrum which no one commented on, into Germanic as in wattle-work wall space to write on and bedrum as sleeping place space.

I might not agree your whole book is correct Alewyn but I do think the OLB is truth after over 1000 posts in this thread.


I have posted about how that name of the Germans came into being: I think it was Tacitus who said that the Germanic tribes all adopted that name, "Germans" because one of those Germanic tribes had kicked the hell out of some enemy, and so the rest of those tribes started using that name for all of them to scare their other enemies.


#1408    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:44 AM

Frya's Empire according to Alwyn's interpretation of the OLB:

Posted Image

What I really think is the real area (the area in red, the Inguavones/North Sea Germans):

Posted Image

.. and what a bit of imagination, the area inside the black line is to where the Frisians spread (as you can see, I should have included eastern England).


==

"They were probably a people of seafarers, the North Sea spanning from Britain to Eastern Denmark, was referred to as the Mare Frisia at that time. Small groups of Frisians settled the surrounding lands and their settlements have been traced to England, Scotland, Norway, Germany, Belgium, France, and obviously in Denmark and the Netherlands. Their language was probably very close to that of the ancient Belgae."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisians

Well, certainly not everybody is convinced their language was close to that of the ancient Belgae



"Frisian Migrations

The Frisian people also migrated to other areas in Europe. It has been proposed that Frisian migrations to what is now England occurred, after the Romans left Britain, during the early Middle Ages (along with the Angles, Saxons and Jutes); and that these peoples founded England or Angla-lond. There are certain studies that purport to prove Frisian involvement in this. Linguistics for example: that the Old Frisian language is that which is most closely related with Old English[16]; archaeology: that brooches found in Kent are most likely to be from Frisia[17]. And genetics: that Frisian men share a strong genetic background with men from East Anglia and the northern midlands of England[18].

In the Faroese island of Suðuroy people refer to Frísarnir í Akrabergi (the Frisians of Akraberg), indicating that the Frisians might have had some sort of settlement there [ME: and they had indeed, they were known and feared as pirates in the Faroer and some have said that that is where the mythical Frieslant on Zeno's maps was located; it was nothing but the name the Frisian pirates gave to the Faroer).

It is somehow believed the Frisians had settled across Scandinavia, Poland, the Baltic States and farther inland across Central Europe. Frisian seafarers may been invited to Ireland, the Spanish provinces of Asturias and Galicia near Portugal and the few might joined the Normans when they occupied Sicily in Southern Italy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisians


There are many times I think this whole thing is about the Vikings/Normans, not so much the Frisians. The Frisans did spread out on their own, but that's quite different from owning/occupying all of Europe, whether you call them Frisians or Frya's People or Inguavones.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 October 2010 - 11:49 AM.


#1409    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:53 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 October 2010 - 10:32 AM, said:

And I will keep repeating that the area between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea can not be the area the OLB talks about. Just look at any map, and you will see that that area is just a small part of Bulgary and Turkey, ie the area around the Bosporus/Dardanelles. If you stretch it a bit you could add Greece, but that's it.



----------------

EDIT:

Puzz said:

Bedrum = sleeping place - space

Wagrum = wall - space


Those are points I am pretty definite on now.

The language is not Latin based but Nordic and German and those 2 words can be explained as above.



No one ever said the language is Latin based.

And I haven't seen an explanation of "wagrum" meaning wall/space.

And.. I haven't seen anything satisfactory that tells me that word 'bedrvm' isn't a modern borrowing from English, "bedroom". It's the combination of bed and room we are talking about, not just the origin of the word bed.


.
(Post 1355)I showed you already how rum is for space.

We can find wag and wall in the etymology for magic wand.

wand
c.1200, from O.N. vondr "rod, switch," (cf. Goth. wandus "rod," M.Swed. vander), from P.Gmc. *wend- "to turn," see wind (v.)). The notion is of a bending, flexible stick. Cf. cognate O.N. veggr, O.E. wag "wall," O.S., Du. wand, O.H.G. want, Ger. Wand "wall," originally "wickerwork for making walls," or "wall made of wattle-work" (an insight into early Germanic domestic architecture). Magic wand is attested from c.1400 and shows the etymological sense of "suppleness" already had been lost.
http://www.etymonlin...dex.php?l=w&p=1

Wag = wall made of wattle-work - (wand)
Rum = space

wagrum - wattlework wall space (to write on)

-------------------------

bedjam - sleeping place in the ground
bed - sleeping place
rum - space

bedrum = sleeping place - space.

Used by Germanic and Nordic speakers before being infiltrated by Romans and any Latin words from them.

*jam = wedged in. That would refer to being wedged into the earthen ground cot, it was a place to wedge in for the night. Once we stopped wedging into the space in the ground that part would have been dropped from the word bedjam imo.
**jamb jamb
early 14c., from O.Fr. jambe "pier, side post of a door," originally "a leg, shank," from L.L. gamba "leg, (horse's) hock" (see gambol).
http://www.etymonlin....php?search=jam
----------------------------


The words are clearly there.



I think you misunderstood my ast thing, it's all good. (Greek aster (star) then star of the dawn (ast)- From PIE aus - to shine - dawn doesn't shine, the star of dawn shines though - the aster of Greeks) I am over it now.

----------------------------


Yes, "Frisische Haff" is the Vistula Lagoon. Your book link earlier called it Estmere.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#1410    Abramelin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 12:08 PM

OK, I must have mmissed the wagrum bit. Not suprising when you post at least 11 times a day in one row, LOL.


"bedrum = sleeping place - space.
Used by Germanic and Nordic speakers before being infiltrated by Romans and any Latin words from them."



But sorry, the bedrum etymology doesn't convince me at all. And the word bedrum is never used anywhere before the English invented it.


==

I have a link to a very recent German dictionairy about old Frisian.

If you click on it, scroll down till you see 'ru-m' (and the -u- has a horizontal bar on top).

It is only used as an adjective, not as a noun (a noun like room or space), and it means something like 'roomy' or 'spaceous'.

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-R.pdf

.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 October 2010 - 12:39 PM.