133 replies to this topic

[Darkwind]

nebraska.statepaper.com said:

Abortion Law: Mother Denied Abortion, Then Had To Watch Baby Die
March 07, 2011

Nebraska’s new abortion law forced Danielle Deaver to live through ten excruciating days, waiting to give birth to a baby that she and her doctors knew would die minutes later, fighting for breath that would not come.



And that’s what happened.The one-pound, ten-ounce girl, Elizabeth, was born December 8th. Deaver and husband Robb watched, held and comforted the baby as it gasped for air, hoping she was not suffering. She died 15 minutes later.



The sponsor of the controversial Nebraska statute, Sen.

Read more...

Good law, I don't think so.

[OverSword]

From the article

Quote

The law, the only one of its kind in America, prohibits abortions after the 20th week. It is based on the disputed argument that a fetus may feel pain at that stage

Where does it say that religion was the basis of the law?  You are just assuming that.  It's a good assumption too, but think of this.  Murder is against the law.  It says in the bible,

Quote

Thou shalt not kill

does this mean that since it says killing is wrong in the bible that laws against murder are bilically based?  If they are is that really a bad thing?  Personally I wouldn't want to be murdered myself.

[Emma_Acid]

OverSword, on 08 March 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

From the article

Where does it say that religion was the basis of the law?  You are just assuming that.  It's a good assumption too, but think of this.  Murder is against the law.  It says in the bible, does this mean that since it says killing is wrong in the bible that laws against murder are bilically based?  If they are is that really a bad thing?  Personally I wouldn't want to be murdered myself.

Not necessarily, but it is true that most anti-abortion activists are religiously orientated.

[Beckys_Mom]

Quote

  Deaver, 34, and her husband planned the pregnancy and wanted a second child, she said.



Their dreams ended tragically when they learned, shortly before the premature birth, that the pregnancy could not go to term and that the fetus had virtually no chance to survive. She was in her 22nd week of pregnancy when her water broke. Abortion was barred at 20 weeks by the Nebraska law.



The standard of viability, based on the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1973 landmark decision in Roe v. Wade, is generally considered to be between 22 and 24 weeks.

    

Having to go through a late pregancy and loss of my last child... I can tell you one thing - if she had of aborted at 20 weeks, the pain she faced wouldn't be that much different,  I feel the impact of sudden loss would have hurt her still in the same way.    I remember when I went through late pregnancy loss and having to go in to give birth so early was a nightmare..  I didn't want to see the child in a fit of panic.. all sorts rush through your head...but I still saw her.. that made me worse off.....

[OverSword]

Emma_Acid, on 08 March 2011 - 06:34 PM, said:

Not necessarily, but it is true that most anti-abortion activists are religiously orientated.

Like I said, it's a good assumption but still and assumption.

[Sakari]

Oxy-moron -An oxymoron (plural oxymorons or oxymora) (from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull") is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms.

Quote

Where does it say that religion was the basis of the law?  You are just  assuming that.  It's a good assumption too, but think of this.  Murder  is against the law. It says in the bible,

[Beckys_Mom]

OverSword, on 08 March 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

Like I said, it's a good assumption but still and assumption.

Not an assumption when you see them all over the news....

Religious do not hide from that...they protest it and pride themselves on that.. and BTW - Emma said - MOST  <-- that doesnt mean all.... you should pay close attention to key words like that  lol

[Darkwind]

But it wasn't murder. It was a medical procedure. To say that woman murdered her child is cruel and inhuman.

Edited by Darkwind, 08 March 2011 - 07:45 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

Darkwind, on 08 March 2011 - 07:43 PM, said:

But it wasn't murder. It was a medical procedure. To say that woman murdered her child is cruel and inhuman.

It is not murder if the child was at great risk of dying inside her regardless

It is only classed as murder if the baby has nothing wrong with it and not in danger - then I agree it is murder at that late stage

Im not against abortion over religious views...I only agree to it if the baby is in great danger and is the mother.... other than that I am against it

[Setton]

Sakari, on 08 March 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

Oxy-moron -An oxymoron (plural oxymorons or oxymora) (from Greek ὀξύμωρον, "sharp dull") is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms.

How is 'it says in the Bible' an oxymoron?

Beckys_Mom, on 08 March 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

Not an assumption when you see them all over the news....

Religious do not hide from that...they protest it and pride themselves on that.. and BTW - Emma said - MOST  <-- that doesnt mean all.... you should pay close attention to key words like that  lol

No but the assumption is that the law being referred to in the article is based on religion as the title of this thread says. There is no evidence in the article for that at all. It says the law was passed because a fetus may feel pain at 20 weeks. No other reason.

It's still a bad law (to put it mildly) but the title of the thread is very misleading (if not simply false).

[Beckys_Mom]

Setton, on 08 March 2011 - 07:56 PM, said:

No but the assumption is that the law being referred to in the article is based on religion as the title of this thread says. There is no evidence in the article for that at all. It says the law was passed because a fetus may feel pain at 20 weeks. No other reason.

It's still a bad law (to put it mildly) but the title of the thread is very misleading (if not simply false).

9/10 it is religious based...

[Sakari]

Setton, on 08 March 2011 - 07:56 PM, said:

How is 'it says in the Bible' an oxymoron?

The reply :

Quote

Where does it say that religion was the basis of the law?  You are just  assuming that.  It's a good assumption too, but think of this.  Murder  is against the law.  It says in the bible,

The first part of the question ( regarding religion not being involved ) , than having the second bold in there using " it says in the Bible "

Stating to begin with where does it say religion? as a argument , than refering to " it says so in the Bible " later in the reply....A oxymoron.

[Setton]

Sakari, on 08 March 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

The reply :




The first part of the question ( regarding religion not being involved ) , than having the second bold in there using " it says in the Bible "

Stating to begin with where does it say religion? as a argument , than refering to " it says so in the Bible " later in the reply....A oxymoron.

Ah ok. I thought you were just referring to the phrase 'it says in the Bible' on its own and i understood what the poster meant so I didn't see it as an oxymoron but as two (poorly defined) seperate statements.

1. It does not say the law is based on religion so the title is wrong.
2. Murder is against the law based on the Bible so not all religiously based laws are a bad thing.

[Setton]

Beckys_Mom, on 08 March 2011 - 08:02 PM, said:

9/10 it is religious based...

Probably higher chances than that to be honest. But my point is that the OP does not know this and is just automatically associating a bad law about abortion with religion despite having no evidence for this.

Unless they do have evidence. In which case, it would be helpful if this was given. Otherwise it's just a very poor attempt to have a go at religion. Namely: Something bad has happened. I don't like religion. I'll just blame it on religion rather than looking into it.

Incidentally, if you do a quick search on google for 'is the nebraska abortion law based on religion' (not the best search but my brain's given up after lectures today ), the first page is one claiming that it is. Oh wait... it's this thread. So far as I can see, no-one else has claimed it is.

Edited by Setton, 08 March 2011 - 08:18 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

Setton, on 08 March 2011 - 08:15 PM, said:

Probably higher chances than that to be honest. But my point is that the OP does not know this and is just automatically associating a bad law about abortion with religion despite having no evidence for this.

Evidence or no evidence - he calls it a bad law... so be it