I won't even go there but Aboriginals have a bag they call it a dili bag or as we say a Dilly-Bag - it's for carrying things in, a drawstring type pouch bag they carry things in - almost like a bucket with a drawstring...weird. Anyways...
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there are language connections.
When I was in Ozzy I noticed more of them (was in Cairns too last year).
Most striking is BOOMERANG <= BOOM-RANK (tree-branch).
And yes, I'm also serious about the O-mega/ 'double-u' connection.
BTW, although I didn't have anything to add to them, I totally your posts of last week. Very poetic!
~ ~ ~
To me, it's like I found a light that keeps me 'delving' further into the well.
I can feel it inside of me this story is true. The manuscript may be recently written or whatever, it doesn't faze me, the contents are true I reckon. If the timeframe is wrong it's because of something else, like Christian Reckoning or confusion.
"The agony and the irony, they're killing me" Flagpole Sitta - Harvey Danger
It's a phrase that means to hang back, lag behind, linger longer.
general etymology gives us this:
dal·ly /ˈdæli/ Show Spelled
[dal-ee] Show IPA
verb, -lied, -ly·ing.
–verb (used without object)
1. to waste time; loiter; delay.
2. to act playfully, especially in an amorous or flirtatious way.
3. to play mockingly; trifle: to dally with danger.
–verb (used with object)
4. to waste (time) (usually followed by away ).
Use dally in a Sentence
See images of dally
Search dally on the Web
1250–1300; Middle English dalien < Anglo-French dalier to chat, of uncertain origin
OK, all about loitering, hanging around - then it became advanced into a dalliance etc..
To dilly-dally in my opinion could come from the Hebrew root of HANG: (which also comes from DEL/DAL) - dilly-dally - hanging (back - around - down)
dal (Strong's #1800) is the less common masculine word, equivalent of deleth and also from the same root. It is used in the phrase, 'the door of the lips' in Psalm 141:3 in parallel to and meaning the 'mouth'. Other derived or associated words include: dâlal (Strong's #1809) 'to hang down, swing/wave; be weak, feeble, delicate'; dâlîyth (Strong's #1808) [plural: dâlîyyôwth] 'branches, boughs', as hanging from a tree; dâllâh 'thread, hair, poor - life as hanging by a slender thread', (Strong's #1803, Isaiah 38:12, a thread hanging down from a loom). http://www.biblicalh...dies/deleth.htm
Imo again, words like DELay come from this same root - hanging - waiting ---> delay delayed
In a phrase I could say: C'mon kids, don't dilly-dally! or C'mon kids, don't delay! Same thing - all means keeps one hanging.
STOP PRESS Edit:
Maybe an explanation:
The word dal in Hebrew, can also mean the lowest poorest tribe or individual. In fact, modern India describes the lower castes, the 'untouchables', as dalits.
"According to James Massey, the term "Dalit" is perhaps, one of the most ancient terms which has not only survived till date, but is also shared by a few of world's oldest languages, namely, Hebrew and Sanskrit. Though they differ in their grammatical and lexicographical connotations, both these languages share the term "Dalit" with the same root and sense. It has been said that the root word 'dal' in dalit has been borrowed into Sanskrit from Hebrew." (www.csichurch.com/article/dalit.htm and see www.dalitsolidarity.org/meaning.htm)
Then this: One interesting use of deleth is for the 'leaf' or 'page' of a book, as it hangs from the spine and resembles a double-door. This occurs in Jeremiah 36:23 when the king hears 3 or 4 'columns' [literally: 'doors'] of Jeremiah's words of prophecy read from the scroll and then cuts the 'leaves' off with a scribe's knife and burns them in the fire. In the ancient Lachish letters (no.4, dated 586 B.C.) on the obverse side there is the phrase "I have written on the door () according to all my Lord has written to me . . .". Here we are not to imagine doors being written upon but the leaves of a scroll again.
Maybe the writings of the OLB were not on the walls (or doors?) of the citadels at all but on PAPER. It always seemed a bit odd to me they would write this stuff on the WALLS of their citadels.
Edited by The Puzzler, 27 April 2011 - 04:18 AM.
"The agony and the irony, they're killing me" Flagpole Sitta - Harvey Danger
I hesitated posting this, but after having thought about it for a few days, I think the family won't mind, as it is for the good of the research and with the most respect. This is also to support the Reuvers-Kofman theory that I posted about recently.
Some additional notes on the Over de Linden family
Generation I ~ Jan Andries-son Over de Linden (ca.1718-1794)
He had been a 'klerk' (administrator) in Leeuwarden in the early 1740-s, but moved to Enkhuizen after his marriage in 1745 with Jantje vd Woud from Harlingen. That he was a klerk means that he came from a relatively well-to-do family, or else he would not have learnt to read and write.
Enkhuizen in the 18th and 19th century was like a ghost town. In the 17th century, being one of the East-India-Comany cities, it had florished, but from 1650 it went downhill and fell in decline. When Jan O.L. arrived, there was only some trading of agricultural products and material from broken-down houses. Why would someone with a good education move from Friesland to a Westfrisian ghost-town like Enkhuizen was, and settle as a book-publisher?
It is tempting to think that there were political motives. If he was indeed the owner of the OLB, he might have had ideas and ideals that were not in harmony with the Frisian 18th century establishment. In Enkhuizen in the more liberal Westfriesland he would have much more freedom to print and sell his books.
Further research is needed to know who was his employer in Leeuwarden, if he is mentioned in any legal- or church documents from either Friesland or Enkhuizen, what were the names of their other children (Johannes and Andries were named after the two grandfathers), and if any publications from his press have survived.
If indeed he passed on the OLB (or its original) to his son Andries (1759-1820) the carpenter, then why would he not ALSO have passed on a copy to his other son Johannes (1752-?) who followed his example to become a book-publisher as well. Jan Andriesz lived long enough to make one or more copies and pass on the tradition to both sons (and to other children if he had them).
Generation II ~ Johannes and Andries
It is noteworthy that Johannes married a woman from a "family of medical doctors and theologians" in 1776 and that they had their first child baptised only six weeks after the marriage. They must have died before 1810, as their youngest daughter stayed in an orphan-house from 1810 till 1814. It is remarkable that she was not adopted by her uncle and aunt or by her older brother Jan. Research is needed to the dates of death and a possible testament.
Andries did the "poorterseed" (oath of citizens?) in 1811 which means he was considered to be of good standing.
Further research is needed to establish if they had other children than the ones listed in the genealogy and if they appear in legal- or church documents.
Note that both Johannes and Andries named one son after their father, Jan.
Jan Johannes-son Over de Linden (1776-1858) was the 3rd generation book publisher. He and his wife named their children according to the tradition:
1st son: father of the father
2nd son: father of the mother
1st daughter: mother of the mother
2nd daugtter: mother of the father
other children to uncles and aunts of choice
The only known son of Pieter Andries-son Over de Linden (1782-?), named Andries (born 1810), probably died at young age. He would have been another possible heir of the OLB.
From the marriage Jan Andries-son Over de Linden (1785-ca.1835) and Antje Goedmaat, not much was found on the web. I must have some notes at home though. If Cornelis was their only son, it's remarkable that he was not named Andries, after his father's father. This would suggest a conflict between Jan Over de Linden and his father Andries (who also was said to have passed on the OLB to his youngest daughter Aafje, because his son Jan would not have been interested). Cornelis was probably the name of his other grandfather.
It is significant that Jan O.L. was known to "not practice religion" (did he have a documented conflict with the church?), while his wife Antje Goedmaat was "orthodox Calvinist", changing her religion at old age (into what?). Further reasearch in the church archives may provide answers.
Aafje Andries-daughter had two children already (Cornelia and Andries) when she married their probable father Hendrik Reuvers (his mother's name was Cornelia) in 1821. This does not need to mean that they did not love each other enough, as it is possible that they just initially did not care about involving church and civil authorities into private matters. It is remarkable that one of their grandsons, Jacob Kofman (1843-1911) would become a driven 'apostle', who believed that the second coming of Chist was near (see earlier post), while his brother Hendrik (1853-1933) became a frontrunner of the socialist movement. According to the statements by Cornelis O.L. the OLB was passed on to Hendrik and Aafje Reuvers-Over de Linden, and it was because of his uncle Hendrik that he had not received the manuscript earlier.
Two sons (at least) of Jan Johannes-son followed the tradition of book-publishing, Johannes (1803-?) and Willem (ca.1813-?).
Cornelis Over de Linden (1811-1874) from the OLB must have had some problem with his father Jan, as he only named his 4th son after him, not just naming him Jan, but Anton-Jan (1843-?). I don't know the name of his wife's father yet, but if it wasn't also Cornelis, he really must have liked his own name, as he named his first son Cornelis and his second Antoon-Cornelis.
That there was something 'different' about the family ethics is once more demonstrated by a detail in Cornelis' auto-biography. He would have written that before he was married, when he was already working at the shipyard in Den Helder, he was living with a family and that he had had a love affair with the (married) woman of the house (DGG, p.238). Not only that this had happened, but mostly that he does not hide this (for most people embarrasing) fact, is remarkable. His full cousin Wijntje van Doornik (1829-1891) would have had five children from three different fathers (being married to one of them).
According to one version of the story of how Cornelis had received the OLB, he got it from his full cousin Cornelia Kofman-Reuvers (1818-1878). One of her sons, Hein (Hendrik) Kofman (1853-1933) would later have accused Cornelis O.L. of having stolen the OLB (from his mother or from his grandmother?). If this is true it would be a strong clue that Rijkent Kofman (Cornelia's husband) must have known more about the OLB (see my earlier post about this).
Generation VI (skipping V)
Last but not least, in the sixth generation the two branches of the Over de Linden family tree are reunited, in the marriage of Keetje, the daughter of Jacob (Rijkent's son) Kofman, the 'apostle', and her cousin to the fouth degree Gerard Over de Linden (from the book publishers branch). See below.
They had three children:
1) Bartholdus Gerardus OVER DE LINDEN,
born ca.1898, married to
Maria Petronella Elisabeth Kropff, born ca.1898
2) Hendrika Jacoba OVER DE LINDEN,
born ca.1901, married to
Hermanus Johannes Stokvis, born ca.1900
3) Catharina Cornelia OVER DE LINDEN,
born ca.1906, married to
Lukas Jakobus Niederländer, born ca.1905
Two contradicting views on the meaning of "daleth":
The chart below shows the etymology of the letter/symbol, “daleth”, from its earliest usage.
The Semitic alphabet used pictures to convey ideas. For example, the earliest known Semitic symbol of a fish literally meant “door” or more specifically a “tent door”. Interestingly, the Semitic people of Phoenicia incorporated a triangle into their symbol of a fish; it was the tent shape of the triangle that was meant to be symbolic of a door or gateway. This particular shape became known as daleth.
Over time, the diamond shape of the fish was eliminated and only the triangular shaped tail remained – pointing in the opposite direction. This particular shape was the fourth letter of the Phoenician alphabet and was also known as daleth. Even though the shape evolved, the idea behind the letter daleth remained and daleth continued to be equivalent to a door.
Interestingly, daleth was adopted by the Hebrews for the fourth letter of their alphabet and like the Phoenician daleth, the Hebrew daleth also meant door. To the Greeks, who adopted daleth as the fourth letter of their alphabet, daleth was written in the form of a triangle and was renamed “delta”. Like the Phoenician and Hebrew daleth, the Greek delta means door.
According to The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, as well as other sources, the original meaning of daleth was probably dag – the Hebrew word for fish. In other words, because daleth was originally based on the pictogram of a fish, the representation of both the triangle and a fish can be used interchangeably to convey the idea of a door. This same concept was embraced by America’s Founding Fathers when laying the foundations of our Nation’s Capitol.
There are two possibilities for the original Early Semitic pictograph for this letter - , a picture of a fish and , a picture of a door. The modern Hebrew name for this letter is “dalet” and means “door”. The word “dalet” is a derivative of the parent root “dal” also meaning “door”. The Arabic name for this letter is “dal” giving support to the parent root as the original name. As the Hebrew word for a “fish” is dag, it is unlikely that the pictograph is the pictograph for this letter but, rather the pictograph .
The basic meaning of the letter is “door” but has several other meanings associated with it. It can mean “a back and forth movement” as one goes back and forth through the tent through the door. It can mean “dangle” as the tent door dangled down from a roof pole of the tent. It can also mean weak or poor as one who dangles the head down.
While I was on that site I thought this was really amazing, not for any reason to do with the topic, look at this, it's 33 successive cut rock circles - all nudged into each other to form the Tholos Tomb - not rocks, circles of cut rock, each one slightly bigger than the next.
The Mycenae Lion's Gate was built c. 1250BC while the larger sized bodies in some of the grave shafts with the gold 'mask of Agamemnon' is dated c. 1600BC, imo, there was 2 distinct Mycenaean era people in Greece.
Anyway, I'd be pretty sure that the triangles in the DOORWAYS at Mycenae have some relation to the idea of this shape meaning DOOR. (To interpretation of deliverance, freedom, released)
What I see though, is why the Christians probably have a fish symbol for Jesus.
Wikipedia: Ichthys (more commonly spelled Ichthus, or sometimes Ikhthus, from Koine Greek: ἰχθύς, capitalized ΙΧΘΥΣ or ΙΧΘΥC) is the ancient and classical Greek word for "fish." In English it refers to a symbol consisting of two intersecting arcs, the ends of the right side extending beyond the meeting point so as to resemble the profile of a fish, used by Early Christians as a secret symbol and now known colloquially as the "sign of the fish" or the "Jesus fish."
Edit: (I forgot to include the most important part) Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς), Greek for "Jesus".
Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστός), Greek for "anointed".
Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεοῦ), Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Θεóς, Theos, Greek for "God".
Upsilon (u) is the first letter of huios (Υἱός), Greek for "Son".
Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτήρ), Greek for "Savior".
But what you say may be yet another (extra or main?) reason to use the fish as a symbol.
(The more ambiguous meanings the better in symbology.)
Original text in OLB
[012/27] Tex Frya's #7 ALLERA MÀNNALIK THÉR EN OTHER FON SINE FRYDOM BIRÁW
AL WÉRE THENE ÔRE HIM SKELDECH
MOT IK ANDA BÀRN.TAM ÉNER SLÁFINE FÁRA LÉTA
The translations by Ottema, Overwijn and De Heer are all similar and acceptable, general meaning: Anyone who robs another's freedom,
even if the other owes him,
'deserves to be severely humiliated'
(litterally: "must I let fare on the child-leash of a slave-girl")
[Ottema (1876) p.21]
Een iegelijk die een ander van zijne vrijheid berooft,
al ware de ander hem schuldig,
dien moet ik aan den leiband eener slavin laten voeren
Een ieder, die een ander van zijn vrijheid berooft,
al heeft de ander aan hem een verplichting,
die moet ik aan de leiband van een slavin laten rondlopen.
[De Heer (2008) p.21]
Iedereen die een ander van zijn vrijheid berooft,
al is die ander hem schuldig,
moet ik aan de kinderband van een slavin voeren laten.
Sandbach has totally missed the point as Fryans didn't have slaves, not even people who deserve punishment.
[p.21] If any man shall deprive another,
even his debtor, of his liberty,
let him be to you as a vile slave
But Friesland's official OLB-authority prof.dr. Jensma came up with a most preposterous translation:
[Jensma (2006) p.95]
Alleman die een ander van zijn vrijheid berooft,
al ware de ander hem schuldig,
moet ik in de baarmoeder van een slavin laten voeren.
The third line translated: I must have him be lead into the womb of a slave-girl
His reasoning is this:
The 19th century creators of the OLB must have used dictionaries of their time.
He found the word "berntam" in two sources:
- Proeve van een Friesch en Nederlandsch woordenboek, by M. Hettema (1832) => "baarmoeder" (womb)
- Altfriesisches Wörterbuch, (Frisian-German) by Karl von Richthofen (1840) = > "Kinderzeugung" (child-making!)
In his footnote Jensma clarifies: "Ottema translates "leiband" (leash), appearantly based on the Newfrisian non-existing combination 'berne-team' (child-leash)."
Dutch also knows the oldfashioned word "toom", meaning "leash", mostly used in "tomeloos" (= bandeloos); reckless, wild, without constraints. The word also lives forth in "tam" (tame) and "temmen" (to tame).
Using logic and common reasoning, I think that both Hettema and von Richthofen were wrong, but I would like to know their sources.
Bern-tam or BÀRN.TAM = child-leash makes much more sense, but I have also considered "navel-string" (umbilical), in the context of womb.
It also shows that the supposed hoaxers did not use any of the existing dictionaries (for this), as Jensma's translation is complete and utter nonsense (or can anyone explain the logic to me?).
~ ~ ~
If a student with a bizarre sense of humor would have suggested this, I might have smiled about it, but Jensma's book was partly financed by Maatschappij der Nederlandse Letterkunde (union for Dutch literature) te Leiden and Het Nederlands Literair Productie- en Vertalingsfonds (the Dutch fund for production and translation of literature) in Amsterdam.
May it be clear that the Netherlands suffer from an inflation of academic titles.