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Dr. Allen Hynek - Then and Now


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#1    SolarPlexus

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:27 AM

Wikipedia said:

Dr. Josef Allen Hynek (May 1, 1910 April 27, 1986) was a United States astronomer, professor, and ufologist.

Hynek acted as scientific adviser to UFO studies undertaken by the U.S. Air Force under three consecutive names: Project Sign (19471949), Project Grudge (19491952), and Project Blue Book (1952 to 1969).

(link)







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#2    booNyzarC

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:42 AM

There is absolutely no question that Hynek's stance on the subject changed over time.

There is also absolutely no doubt that his constant search after the reality of this phenomena never yielded absolute confirmation.

His extreme interest in the Hessdalen lights prior to his passing, however, leads me to the following belief...

He recognized that the regular occurrences in Hessdalen were of supreme significance to modern day UFOlogy.  I just wish that he had been with us longer to see some of the fruition of that study.  But even moreso, that he may have validated this study as the most likely source of most unexplained sightings and championed the previously proposed explanations from Philip Klass.

We truly do live on a wondrous planet.


#3    psyche101

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:55 AM

View PostSolarPlexus, on 24 November 2010 - 04:27 AM, said:




Hi SP

I have no sound ATM, can you offer an overview of the clip?

Always interested in Hyneks thoughts.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#4    karl 12

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:00 AM

SP, very interesting video - thanks for posting that one. Here's what Dr Hynek had to say about his work as chief scientific advisor on Project Bluebook, there's also another interesting statement made below about his change of opinion about the UFO/OVNI subject.



Quote

Bluebook:


"I was there at [Project] Bluebook and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, not to rock the boat... Whenever a case happened that they coud explain--which was quite a few--they made a point of that, and let that out to the media. . .Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them. They had a job to do, rightfully or wrongfully, to keep the public from getting excited."
Dr. J. Allen Hynek, former Chairman of the Dept. of Astronomy at North Western University and scientific advisor to Project Bluebook from 1952-1969



"Project Blue Book was ballyhooed by the Air Force as a full-fledged top-priority operation. It was no such thing. The staff, in a sense, was a joke. In terms of scientific training and numbers, it was highly inadequate to the task. And the methods used were positively archaic. And that is the crack operation that the general public believes looked adequately into the UFO phenomenon".
Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969 (Projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book).



]"Blue Book was now under direct orders to debunk...I remember the conversations around the conference table in which it was suggested that Walt Disney or some other educational cartoon producer be enlisted in the debunking process".
Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969 (Projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book).




Quote

UFOs

Before I began my association with the US Air Force, I had
joined my scientific colleagues in many a hearty guffaw
at the "psychological postwar craze" for flying saucers
that seemed to be sweeping the country and at the naivete
and gullibility of our fellow human beings who were being
taken in by such obvious "nonsense." It was almost in a
sense of sport that I accepted the invitation to have a
look at the flying saucer reports....."

"I had started out as an outright 'debunker,' taking
great joy in cracking what seemed at first to be puzzling
cases. I was the arch enemy of those 'flying saucer
groups and enthusiasts' who very dearly wanted UFOs to be
interplanetary. My own knowledge of those groups came
almost entirely from what I heard from Blue Book
personnel; they were all "crackpots and visionaries.'"

"Now, however, documentation which puts the UFO-
U.S. government controversy in quite a new light has
become available. The authors have made revealing use of
documents released through the mechanism of the Freedom
of Information Act and other data which have been made
available to them, often through private sources, which
show that the CIA and NSA protestations of innocence and
lack of interest in UFOs are nothing short of
prevarication."

"The reader must judge for himself or herself just
how far these implications extend, but certainly no one
can deny any longer that various intelligence agencies of
our government were long cognizant of UFOs and the global
extent of this phenomenon. Official dispatches from our
embassies and air bases in other countries to these
agencies, to the State Department, and even, on occasion,
to the White House, bear incontrovertible witness to
this."

"For the government to continue to maintain that
UFOs are nonexistent in the face of the documents already
released and of other cogent evidence presented in this
book is puerile and in a sense an insult to the American
people."

Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969 (Projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book).

Cheers.


#5    SolarPlexus

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:48 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 24 November 2010 - 04:55 AM, said:

Hi SP

I have no sound ATM, can you offer an overview of the clip?



Ofcourse...



In 1966 they asked Hynek and Harold Brown, "What is the Airforce hidding in their investigation?"

Harold Brown (the former Secretary of Defense): "We are not hiding anything."

Dr. Allen Hynek: "None of the evidence i examined would indicate any proof at all that we are visited by extra-terrestrials."





... 19 years later...






In 1985, 1 year before his death, Hynek said:

"... I was there at Bluebook and i know the job they had... They were told not to excite the public... dont rock the boat... and i saw it in my own eyes happen that whenever a case happened that they could explain... which is quite a few... they made a point of that and let that out to the media... things that... Cases that were very difficult to explain... they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from that.. For them... They had a job to do... to, whether rightfully or wrongly, to keep the public from getting excited... [END] "

Edited by SolarPlexus, 24 November 2010 - 05:02 PM.

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."
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"Who never walks save where he sees men's tracks makes no discoveries."J.G. Holland


#6    SolarPlexus

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:53 PM

I found another interesting thing on wikipedia....


Quote

Steven Spielberg movie

Hynek developed the "close encounter scale" in his first book, to better catalogue various UFO reports. Dr. Hynek was also the consultant to Columbia Pictures and Steven Spielberg on the popular 1977 UFO movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and made a brief, non-speaking appearance in the film[16] (after the aliens disembark from the 'mother ship' at the end of the film, he can be seen, bearded and with pipe in mouth, stepping forward to view the spectacle). (link)


  :w00t:   :w00t:    



Well, well, well... i always wondered where do they get the ideas for the movies ...





...and i also found this....




Why Would NASA Write to Steven Spielberg?

Quote

"I really found my faith when I learned the government was opposed to the film. If NASA took the time to write me a 25 page letter, then I knew there must be something happening." Steven Spielberg said.

Spielberg spoke those words concerning the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind that was released in 1977.

Apparently, Spielberg either had a good imagination or was in touch with someone who knew something that wasn't released to the public. Either way, NASA apparently was opposed to the film and wrote to Spielberg.... (link)



Wow :)

Edited by SolarPlexus, 24 November 2010 - 05:05 PM.

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."
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"Who never walks save where he sees men's tracks makes no discoveries."J.G. Holland


#7    karl 12

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 07:31 PM

View PostSolarPlexus, on 24 November 2010 - 04:53 PM, said:

Well, well, well... i always wondered where do they get the ideas for the movies ...

SP, here's where they got the idea for the police chase scene in the movie:



Part Two


#8    psyche101

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:09 AM

View PostSolarPlexus, on 24 November 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

Ofcourse...



In 1966 they asked Hynek and Harold Brown, "What is the Airforce hidding in their investigation?"

Harold Brown (the former Secretary of Defense): "We are not hiding anything."

Dr. Allen Hynek: "None of the evidence i examined would indicate any proof at all that we are visited by extra-terrestrials."





... 19 years later...






In 1985, 1 year before his death, Hynek said:

"... I was there at Bluebook and i know the job they had... They were told not to excite the public... dont rock the boat... and i saw it in my own eyes happen that whenever a case happened that they could explain... which is quite a few... they made a point of that and let that out to the media... things that... Cases that were very difficult to explain... they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from that.. For them... They had a job to do... to, whether rightfully or wrongly, to keep the public from getting excited... [END] "


Thank you very much for that SP, might I add he also said he, as a scientist, never was or would be a "believer" in the sense of accepting something on blind faith.

In 1976, he also said

Quote

"I have come to support less and less the idea that UFOs are 'nuts and bolts' spacecrafts from other worlds. There are just too many things going against this theory. To me, it seems ridiculous that super intelligences would travel great distances to do relatively stupid things like stop cars, collect soil samples, and frighten people. I think we must begin to re-examine the evidence. We must begin to look closer to home."


I do not feel either of these statements contradicts the other, I think he died knowing no more about the phenomena than you or I?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#9    psyche101

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:31 AM

View PostSolarPlexus, on 24 November 2010 - 04:53 PM, said:

I found another interesting thing on wikipedia....





  :w00t:   :w00t:    



Well, well, well... i always wondered where do they get the ideas for the movies ...





...and i also found this....




Why Would NASA Write to Steven Spielberg?

[i]



Wow :)


I am pretty sure that when making star wars, Hawking said to Lucas

You know that Aliens probably would look nothing like this? This is very Anthropomorphic.

To which I believe Lucas siad something akin to

But that is not what the public wants.

And poor Carrie Fisher had to stap her boobs down! Aliens must not be busty :D

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#10    lost_shaman

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 06:01 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 25 November 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

I am pretty sure that when making star wars, Hawking said to Lucas

You know that Aliens probably would look nothing like this? This is very Anthropomorphic.

To which I believe Lucas siad something akin to

But that is not what the public wants.

And poor Carrie Fisher had to stap her boobs down! Aliens must not be busty :D

First, Carrie Fisher was great, nothing wrong there.

I think a hypothetical technological civilization would have Anthropomorphic traits; How could technology arise without such traits?

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#11    psyche101

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 06:38 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 25 November 2010 - 06:01 AM, said:

First, Carrie Fisher was great, nothing wrong there.

Agreed, I was more upset that they made her strap her boobs down. I just do not see the logic there :blink:

Posted Image

Yes, you are completely correct, she was indeed great!

View Postlost_shaman, on 25 November 2010 - 06:01 AM, said:

I think a hypothetical technological civilization would have Anthropomorphic traits; How could technology arise without such traits?


I think an opposable thumb would go a long way, bipedalism would also be an advantage, but working with a pool of one, it is hard to speculate. Although as we are looking at "earth like" planets,it seems hard to resolve that "earth like evolution" would not take place, I would say you have a good point there and I would have to agree.

Edited by psyche101, 25 November 2010 - 06:39 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#12    skyeagle409

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 06:54 AM

View PostSolarPlexus, on 24 November 2010 - 04:53 PM, said:

I found another interesting thing on wikipedia....





  :w00t:   :w00t:    



Well, well, well... i always wondered where do they get the ideas for the movies ...





...and i also found this....




Why Would NASA Write to Steven Spielberg?

[i]



Wow :)



I think that Steven Spielberg also got the idea for his movie: "1941," from the 'Battle of Los Angeles' incident of 1942.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#13    psyche101

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 06:57 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 25 November 2010 - 06:54 AM, said:

I think that Steven Spielberg also got the idea for his movie: "1941," from the 'Battle of Los Angeles' incident of 1942.


I do believe you are correct, ironic that it is a comedy?

:lol:

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#14    Paxus

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:32 AM

US Gov or NASA opposed to "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" ?!?!?!
That for real??!
That's BIZAARE!!!!!!!


#15    SolarPlexus

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 03:42 AM

yes paxus :)

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."
Galileo Galilei
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"Who never walks save where he sees men's tracks makes no discoveries."J.G. Holland





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