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College Costs-- get bent over by the system


Jack Skellington

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Prepare for RANT.

You can likely surmise that I'm having to live the nightmare known as having a Junior in High School who is shopping colleges. My oldest son had athletic scholarships available, but elected to join the Navy instead of college so this is my first kick at this.

Schools are SOOOO expensive.

Have no fear they say! We will cover all of your "need-based" expenses. 100% --well that sounds pretty good. Trouble is they are the ones who are going to determine if our family and my son "need" any help at all. They do this by calculating something they call an "Expected Family Contribution" or EFC.

The amount that we are "expected" to contribute to our son's education is calculated by examining our income and assets of course-- so the more you have or the more you make, the higher the expected amount will be. This bothers me. My son might be a great athlete and a stellar student, but those factors are not considered at a great many institutions. The ONLY factor they consider for financial aid is the EFC and from that figure-- your "need-based" amount.

Full disclosure-- based on my income "THEY" (whoever "they" are) decide for example that I don't need any help. So if a particular school happens to cost $65k a year with room and board-- then guess what? My EFC is exactly $65k.

Your son or daughter might apply to the same school and based on your income "they" may decide that your EFC is $20k.

Sounds fair though, right? I mean if I make more then I should pay more.

When did this kind of thinking take such firm root?

If you and I go to the grocery store and want to buy some apples-- would it be fair to charge you one price for an apple, and me a higher price for the same apple, based on income? Is that what is coming next? When we go out to a movie, should they verify income before deciding on how much a ticket for each of us will be? How about housing? Should I pay more for an identical house next door to yours? The realtor says the houses cost $300k each. I go to get the loan and they look at the price and determine what my expected cost should be-- $300k. You go to get a loan and they drop your price to $100k. Nice for you, right?

This is the baloney our colleges have bought into. It comes from that "progressive" idea of a graduated tax system. In truth, the graduated tax system is founded in the nut vaults known as the college system. The colleges are the brain farms that produced the progressive tax system and they have successfully implanted their goofy ideas into the financial aid program.

Before you dismiss my rant as whining, consider that while I might make more than you, YOU certainly make more than your neighbor. Particularly if you consider Mexico, for example- your neighbor. Are you willing to pay more for your car, for your house, your apples and oranges or your new Apple iOrange than the consumer in line with you, because of an income litmus test? Are you willing to submit yourself to that? If your kids and their kids go to the same high school, will you pay an extra fee simply because you are economically advantaged by comparison?

No? -- why is college suddenly considered different and who is it exactly deciding what my, or your expected contribution should be? Now our neighbors come from all over the globe-- There are some pretty poor South Americans, Chinese, Indian--- in the global community these are our neighbors. They are the ones who will have "need-based" financial aid, while you (like me) will discover that our EFC doesn't qualify us for help from the institutions we fund with our tax dollars.

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Scratching Cornell off the list anyway.... O'keefe strikes again.

https://youtu.be/b-wF9FVxV9w

Edited by Jack Skellington
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I love how they assume your family is function enough to help you too.

According to colleges my family should basically be paying for my college.

Unfourtantly it's me paying for everything

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Prepare for RANT.

You can likely surmise that I'm having to live the nightmare known as having a Junior in High School who is shopping colleges. My oldest son had athletic scholarships available, but elected to join the Navy instead of college so this is my first kick at this.

Schools are SOOOO expensive.

Have no fear they say! We will cover all of your "need-based" expenses. 100% --well that sounds pretty good. Trouble is they are the ones who are going to determine if our family and my son "need" any help at all. They do this by calculating something they call an "Expected Family Contribution" or EFC.

The amount that we are "expected" to contribute to our son's education is calculated by examining our income and assets of course-- so the more you have or the more you make, the higher the expected amount will be. This bothers me. My son might be a great athlete and a stellar student, but those factors are not considered at a great many institutions. The ONLY factor they consider for financial aid is the EFC and from that figure-- your "need-based" amount.

Full disclosure-- based on my income "THEY" (whoever "they" are) decide for example that I don't need any help. So if a particular school happens to cost $65k a year with room and board-- then guess what? My EFC is exactly $65k.

Your son or daughter might apply to the same school and based on your income "they" may decide that your EFC is $20k.

Sounds fair though, right? I mean if I make more then I should pay more.

When did this kind of thinking take such firm root?

If you and I go to the grocery store and want to buy some apples-- would it be fair to charge you one price for an apple, and me a higher price for the same apple, based on income? Is that what is coming next? When we go out to a movie, should they verify income before deciding on how much a ticket for each of us will be? How about housing? Should I pay more for an identical house next door to yours? The realtor says the houses cost $300k each. I go to get the loan and they look at the price and determine what my expected cost should be-- $300k. You go to get a loan and they drop your price to $100k. Nice for you, right?

This is the baloney our colleges have bought into. It comes from that "progressive" idea of a graduated tax system. In truth, the graduated tax system is founded in the nut vaults known as the college system. The colleges are the brain farms that produced the progressive tax system and they have successfully implanted their goofy ideas into the financial aid program.

Before you dismiss my rant as whining, consider that while I might make more than you, YOU certainly make more than your neighbor. Particularly if you consider Mexico, for example- your neighbor. Are you willing to pay more for your car, for your house, your apples and oranges or your new Apple iOrange than the consumer in line with you, because of an income litmus test? Are you willing to submit yourself to that? If your kids and their kids go to the same high school, will you pay an extra fee simply because you are economically advantaged by comparison?

No? -- why is college suddenly considered different and who is it exactly deciding what my, or your expected contribution should be? Now our neighbors come from all over the globe-- There are some pretty poor South Americans, Chinese, Indian--- in the global community these are our neighbors. They are the ones who will have "need-based" financial aid, while you (like me) will discover that our EFC doesn't qualify us for help from the institutions we fund with our tax dollars.

The wonders of modern technology. Recently I was able to find my bank records for 1984, my last year in college (my niece is starting college next year and was curious as to how much tuition was when I attended). My tuition was $683 for 12 hrs. My friends and I lived in a 3 bdrm appt that cost $185 per month, or about $62 per person (which included electricity and water). Granted that was 30 years ago but why does college cost so much nowadays? I know that BAMA isn't one of the more expensive universities, but it isn't one of the cheapest either.

Because it was reasonably priced I was able to work and pay my way without loans. It took me 5.5 years :cry: but I wasn't in debt when I finished. :clap:

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The truth is college doesn't NEED to cost $65K a year, but for the fact that I'm having to pay for my kid's college and somebody else's kids costs. That's the reality. We all pay more, to fund a system that stinks. Meanwhile the college endowments grow and grow.

I figured this out while we were comparing schools and noticed their endowment sizes, thinking that the more they had 'in the bank' the more funds that might be available to help offset our costs.... Not so.

For example one of the small schools we looked at had an endowment of $65 Million. Another had $80 million and so on.... You would think that the $80M endowment would mean more funds available for scholarships and in general that was true.

But then we started looking at bigger schools like Stanford-- with endowments into the BILLIONS of dollars. Harvard for example has something like $60 Billion. Yet those Ivy Schools reserve funds only for need based financial aid. If you qualify to get in by your grades great! Now let's calculate your EFC. BOOM! They offer no academic scholarship money. None for athletics.

The only aid available financial aid is Need-Based aid, and they will determine if you need it.

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Its unfortunate the colleges are so expensive now a days. When I was in my last semester of college, the school decided all students had to pay an extra $380 retro active fee hike in the middle of the semester, and sent out a very threatening letter saying that if payment were not made in full within 30 days, they would automatically drop currently enrolled students. Talk about being held hostage! Still makes me angry....and then the alumni association had the nerve to write me a letter every couple of months asking for donations. Grrrr! :angry:

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Unfourtantly it's me paying for everything

That's the way it was for me too! My parents couldn't afford to send me to college so I had to work my way through.

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This is what happens when the government starts flipping the bill for loans. The collage knows the government will give what ever amount the school asks for. The price of higher education skyrocketed over night. It wouldn't cost anywhere near what it does without government backed student loans.

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Its unfortunate the colleges are so expensive now a days. When I was in my last semester of college, the school decided all students had to pay an extra $380 retro active fee hike in the middle of the semester, and sent out a very threatening letter saying that if payment were not made in full within 30 days, they would automatically drop currently enrolled students. Talk about being held hostage! Still makes me angry....and then the alumni association had the nerve to write me a letter every couple of months asking for donations. Grrrr! :angry:

Every kid should have walked out for the day. Betcha theyd forget about that 380 bucks real quick.

Isnt that a breach of contract?

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Every kid should have walked out for the day. Betcha theyd forget about that 380 bucks real quick.

Isnt that a breach of contract?

No unfortunately this happened when the California Legislature passed a bill allowing the retroactive fee hike, so the students had no other choice than to pay. And yes, several students did demonstrate against the fee hike at the time.
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What does the activity fee cover? We didn't have one when I went to college.

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The truth is college doesn't NEED to cost $65K a year, but for the fact that I'm having to pay for my kid's college and somebody else's kids costs. That's the reality. We all pay more, to fund a system that stinks. Meanwhile the college endowments grow and grow.

I figured this out while we were comparing schools and noticed their endowment sizes, thinking that the more they had 'in the bank' the more funds that might be available to help offset our costs.... Not so.

For example one of the small schools we looked at had an endowment of $65 Million. Another had $80 million and so on.... You would think that the $80M endowment would mean more funds available for scholarships and in general that was true.

But then we started looking at bigger schools like Stanford-- with endowments into the BILLIONS of dollars. Harvard for example has something like $60 Billion. Yet those Ivy Schools reserve funds only for need based financial aid. If you qualify to get in by your grades great! Now let's calculate your EFC. BOOM! They offer no academic scholarship money. None for athletics.

The only aid available financial aid is Need-Based aid, and they will determine if you need it.

You have to remember that a university's endowment simply isn't a bank account that they can draw on as they see fit. That money is given by donors for specific purposes and the funds have to be utilized in the manner agreed upon or there could be significant consequences to the institution. In general, though, schools with larger endowments are able to fund more student scholarships if the students are eligible.

Also keep in mind that the financial aid system wasn't put in place by the institutions, but rather by the Government.

Like with most things education is an investment. And like with all investments, it's critical to go into the process with foreknowledge and a plan. I know graduates that come out of my institution with upwards of $75K or more in debt. But counter that with the fact that they're going into high demand technical fields and a good number are looking at starting salaries well into six figures.

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EFC isn't exactly a new thing. Over 20 years ago, when I graduated from high school, I wanted to go to college. But couldn't because of EFC, even though neither mom or dad would have been either willing or able to pay anything at all for my schooling. I couldn't afford to pay for it by myself at the time, so I ended up not going to college out of high school.

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EFC isn't exactly a new thing. Over 20 years ago, when I graduated from high school, I wanted to go to college. But couldn't because of EFC, even though neither mom or dad would have been either willing or able to pay anything at all for my schooling. I couldn't afford to pay for it by myself at the time, so I ended up not going to college out of high school.

Were you given the option to legally emancipate yourself?

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Were you given the option to legally emancipate yourself?

Nope. I did end up going back to school many years later though.. and now I'm still in debt because of it, lol.

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Meanwhile, in Australia.... there exists a nasty, and no doubt evil Socialist system you Americans are glad you don't have, called HELP (Higher Education Learning Payment IIRC) that uses to be called HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme). HELP/HECS was a lovely two tiered system. On the first tier was everyone. You apply to the government and the government says "yes, we'll support your university studies by paying for 100% of your course fees (up to ten years of study only) pay us back later when you have a high earning job!" (over $25 grand a year). The second tier is "you are also from a disadvantaged background but pulled yourself up by the bootstraps enough to earn your place at Uni, we'll even cover your textbooks and some of your transport to and from Uni!".

What's the Interest Rate on the loan? Next to nil. What's the timescale to pay it off before they start sending people around to recoup the losses? NONE (although they may garnish your estate when you die). They don't even take it out of your tax. Although you do have to mention your debt on your tax return, it doesn't factor into your tax debt.

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Going to college was the worst thing i have ever done. It took me two years to figure out that i wasn't learning, i was being indoctrinated into a way of thinking. It was my lowest point when i dropped out (not through bad grades, i just felt like i couldn't meet societies expectation). I did an apprenticeship with an engineering construction company, paid off my 28k loan, and haven't looked back since. Apprenticeships are underrated, and if you have the smarts to go to college, then you will go very far if you can avoid a college.

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In Tennessee anyone graduating from high school with decent grades gets two years free college or trade school.

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Going to college was the worst thing i have ever done. It took me two years to figure out that i wasn't learning, i was being indoctrinated into a way of thinking. It was my lowest point when i dropped out (not through bad grades, i just felt like i couldn't meet societies expectation). I did an apprenticeship with an engineering construction company, paid off my 28k loan, and haven't looked back since. Apprenticeships are underrated, and if you have the smarts to go to college, then you will go very far if you can avoid a college.

Indoctrinated into a way of thinking? What kind of stupid *** major did you pick? Math, science, technology, computer science classes do NOTHING of the sort. But, this is clearly another one of your propaganda bull**** posts.

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In Tennessee anyone graduating from high school with decent grades gets two years free college or trade school.

Not in PC liberal "socialist" CA where I live, the UC and CSU systems are no longer affordable to the majority of CA residents and forget about attending a private or Ivy League school (i.e. Stanford). Yes, there are scholarships available esp. for women and minorities, and financial aid (if you qualify depending on college/university), even online courses at your home computer. For me, community college was the ONLY option and I knew my Mom won't pay for that. I took 2 art classes (did great) and barely passed 2 HARD math classes, even with available study hall tutors and assistance from the department of disabled students...that was a decade ago. Mathematics is said to be the most necessary, but not to mention English is very important...you have to chose carefully which classes you will be attending.

I contemplate returning there for awhile to get a degree either in meteorology and cartography, not widely available careers in my area. Community colleges are more popular now than when I went, because they're closer to home, you live with parents, they are cheaper or lower-cost and employers look at them not as "party schools" where they have more emphasis on academic studies. CA when I graduated high school in the late 1990s used to have programs for low-income (free no-cost college) and disabled students through the state Dept of Rehabilitation and its 23 regional centers for the state's disabled, but due to so many dropped out, the state stopped those programs by the years of 3 Republican and one recalled Democrat governor constantly cutting funds during the state's fiscal crises of the 1990s and 2000s.

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Indoctrinated into a way of thinking? What kind of stupid *** major did you pick? Math, science, technology, computer science classes do NOTHING of the sort. But, this is clearly another one of your propaganda bull**** posts.

BBus major in commercial law and management. And yes, it was indoctrination. When i was in high school i had a very old english teacher (from England) who explained that in his day Universities were a place where any and all ideas can be discussed openly. When i was there, i can tell you that no one held alternative views on the topics we were studying. Corporate responsibility was taught as a way of avoiding boycotts, Globalization was taught as utilizing low cost labour offshore to increase profit. Never once were the two linked ethically. I am glad you think my views are propaganda and BS. You obviously enjoyed your indoctrination very much

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i used to pay a bit over 1k per semester when i went to school, all paid in full each semester, never took a loan, now same school charges 3k per semester, for undergrad resident.

during same period of time, gas went up 3 times, bus\train ride also went up 3 times, a slice of pizza back than was .75c to $1 on avarige, now $2-$3. cigarettes went up 6 times.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is what happens when the government starts flipping the bill for loans. The collage knows the government will give what ever amount the school asks for. The price of higher education skyrocketed over night. It wouldn't cost anywhere near what it does without government backed student loans.

I figured this was the reason the Fed Gov took over student loans starting with the Obamacare/ACA bill. The Fed Gov gets all the profits from all student loans now. If the interest rates are high, just know that it is the First Bank of Obama that you're paying them to.

I agree that it is easy loans which has created this mess, and people eager to take those loans. Most kids really don't have a choice other then to take the loans. It wouldn't surprise me if the EFC is calculated to force kids into loans.

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