47 replies to this topic

[Viviana98]

I was raised up in church, my grandpa is a non denominational pastor with a very southern baptist hell fire and bremstone way of teaching. I was actually going to go to school for theology because I wanted to be a pastor as well but the deeper I got into it and read about things the more questions I had that no one could answer. Things just didn't make since and the amount of hypocrasy and hate that is in the bible made me sick. People have the right to believe what they want and if it makes them happy, thats good but sadly most believers people don't feel that same way. To all the believers out there, your way is not the right and only way for everyone. You need to practice what you preach...If you don't want to practice love and acceptance then take those words out of your vocabulary. Should be easy to do since you already pick and choose what you want out of the bible anyways. If your going to believe in gods teachings then believe in it all....lets go back to stoning non virgins lol god told me its what should be done so has to be right. Stop the hate people please...god does not hate gay people or non virgins or athiest, hes supposed to love everyone!

[Bluefinger]

Viviana98, on 04 July 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I was raised up in church, my grandpa is a non denominational pastor with a very southern baptist hell fire and bremstone way of teaching. I was actually going to go to school for theology because I wanted to be a pastor as well but the deeper I got into it and read about things the more questions I had that no one could answer. Things just didn't make since and the amount of hypocrasy and hate that is in the bible made me sick. People have the right to believe what they want and if it makes them happy, thats good but sadly most believers people don't feel that same way. To all the believers out there, your way is not the right and only way for everyone. You need to practice what you preach...If you don't want to practice love and acceptance then take those words out of your vocabulary. Should be easy to do since you already pick and choose what you want out of the bible anyways. If your going to believe in gods teachings then believe in it all....lets go back to stoning non virgins lol god told me its what should be done so has to be right. Stop the hate people please...god does not hate gay people or non virgins or athiest, hes supposed to love everyone!

I think that many people, both atheists and Christians, don't know much about Christian Orthodoxy.  They know usually one way of thinking about God, Jesus, the Bible, and the Gospel.  They don't often know the history of how that line of thought developed.  They picked it up from their parents or culture and believed like they believed.  Not many know that the background and occupation of theologians like Tertullian, Origen, and Iranaeus presented AT LEAST three orthodox ways of Christian thinking in the West.

I strongly recommend Christian Thought Revisited by Justo L. Gonzalez, 1988.  It does much of the research for you, provides notes and cites resources concerning the history of Christian thought.  It is simply an eye opening experience that I recommend for anyone who wants to empirically know more about Christianity.

Beside, a lot of people react to Christianity based on experience and impression.  But not many know how or why many Christians have come to believe the way they have.

An example:  Tertullian, a Latin lawyer from Carthage, laid much of the ground for the way that the Roman Catholic Church came to think later on.  Tertullian, whose culture embraced the Stoic philosophy of Law and Order, saw Christianity from a legalistic point of view.  He defined God using legal terms such as:  Three 'persons' being of one 'substance."  He defined the Gospel as Jesus paying our debt of offenses to God's Law.  He saw Jesus as the giver of a stricter Law than was given to Moses.  He also believed that, after Baptism, you were not allowed to sin anymore.  If you did, then you were condemned to hell.  This line of thinking posed great problems for later Latin thinkers, which led to the development of dogmas such as penance, treasury of merits, purgatory, and indulgences.  This complication led to the Reformation, which was really just a reform of Tertullian's line of thinking.

By the way, Tertullian left the Church because he thought they were too lenient with apostates, backsliders, and habitual sinners.  Knowing this may change the way many Christians and atheists think about Western Christianity.

[Viviana98]

Bluefinger, on 12 July 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

I think that many people, both atheists and Christians, don't know much about Christian Orthodoxy.  They know usually one way of thinking about God, Jesus, the Bible, and the Gospel.  They don't often know the history of how that line of thought developed.  They picked it up from their parents or culture and believed like they believed.  Not many know that the background and occupation of theologians like Tertullian, Origen, and Iranaeus presented AT LEAST three orthodox ways of Christian thinking in the West.

I strongly recommend Christian Thought Revisited by Justo L. Gonzalez, 1988.  It does much of the research for you, provides notes and cites resources concerning the history of Christian thought.  It is simply an eye opening experience that I recommend for anyone who wants to empirically know more about Christianity.

Beside, a lot of people react to Christianity based on experience and impression.  But not many know how or why many Christians have come to believe the way they have.

An example:  Tertullian, a Latin lawyer from Carthage, laid much of the ground for the way that the Roman Catholic Church came to think later on.  Tertullian, whose culture embraced the Stoic philosophy of Law and Order, saw Christianity from a legalistic point of view.  He defined God using legal terms such as:  Three 'persons' being of one 'substance."  He defined the Gospel as Jesus paying our debt of offenses to God's Law.  He saw Jesus as the giver of a stricter Law than was given to Moses.  He also believed that, after Baptism, you were not allowed to sin anymore.  If you did, then you were condemned to hell.  This line of thinking posed great problems for later Latin thinkers, which led to the development of dogmas such as penance, treasury of merits, purgatory, and indulgences.  This complication led to the Reformation, which was really just a reform of Tertullian's line of thinking.

By the way, Tertullian left the Church because he thought they were too lenient with apostates, backsliders, and habitual sinners.  Knowing this may change the way many Christians and atheists think about Western Christianity.

Thank you, I will definitely love to read that book. I'm always looking to gain just that much more knowledge:)  I do have a question though...you say that most Christians don't even know why they believe or think the way they do, that it's usually family and just the way they were brought up correct? Well since I was brought up that way and all my family are Christians or Catholics(I'm the only who chose a different direction)wouldn't I or shouldn't I know just as much as they do about why they believe or think the way they do, because I once was just like one of them?? I'm not basing my choice on an impression or experience, so to say...unless me reading and learning about so much more than what I was ever taught in any church is the kind of experience your talking about.