108 replies to this topic

[The world needs you]

TheSearcher, on 04 January 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Define "a new age"? I mean are we suddenly, all by itself, become better people? More compassionate, nice, friendly, enlightened, etc?
That's just a big pile of bovine excrements. Change needs to come from us, we cannot do it via "a new age" or via someone else or via a sect or via intervention of the holy spirit....

The New Age, in this context, the one that just begun, will have different definitions to both believers and skeptics. I am primarily concerned with interacting with believers but am willing to listen to skeptics just don't find much to debate about.

For me the New Age is about progress, continuing progress, so it is not people getting better out of no where as your described, a sweet naive view in my opinion. Progressive politics give many hope because we can see that change does happen, has been happening, but the speed will increase now because of the New Age.

Life is getting better for many in all sectors. The BRIC nations, Brazil for example, once was a borrower, now they are a lender with a growing middle class. The Mahgreb just went through the Arab Spring and dictators have fallen. India is going to make progress in worker safety due to the factory fires and on women's rights because of the rapes. America is going to address mental health among its pursuit of continual progress.

Progress is about speed and not direction.

It is also about becoming a Type 1 civilization for me. http://articles.lati...on/oe-shermer22

There are other scales and it is quite easy to see where we have been, how we have grown, and very exciting to understand we will keep growing, thriving, and living better with ourselves, each other, and all species.

I also like this:

Quote

We believe there is more.  More than the outdated, old story about Us vs. Them, and the need to compete for supposedly scarce resources.

http://celebrationci...g/about-us.html

It is also about embracing postmodernism.

Many ideas for me alone that will lead us into the New Age. If you have any of your own I will be interested in discussing. If you have any more questions I might answer. If you want to debate, that might not happen, but you will find plenty of others who believe just as you do, I just can't agree with that, I see nothing wrong with embracing what is positive, there is just far too much cynicism.

Now I truly believe good and bad come together, we cannot do away with one, but at times the scales get tipped one way or another, we have seen how they have been tipped, now they will tip the other way in the New Age. You don't have to agree, it works with or without your help, but it will help make for better societies and civilization. Cheers.

[Hasina]

So... This New Age is just whatever ya want it to be? Some progress but not really?

[The world needs you]

Hasina, on 04 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

So... This New Age is just whatever ya want it to be? Some progress but not really?

You can define it as you wish as others will. For me it is more than progress, but progress too, really. But it is not just what I want it to be, as others also have their ideas about it, thing is all these motives intersect.

What it isn't about is self-help, you won't be cured if you have any ills, that is something you will have to do. Society will progress, soda is next!!!

[Hasina]

I believe you, on 04 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

You can define it as you wish as others will. For me it is more than progress, but progress too, really. But it is not just what I want it to be, as others also have their ideas about it, thing is all these motives intersect.

What it isn't about is self-help, you won't be cured if you have any ills, that is something you will have to do. Society will progress, soda is next!!!

So it's basically a human created New Age. It didn't 'happen', we'll make it happen.

And bummer about the ills, hopefully when 'society progresses' they'll work on illnesses sooner or later.

[The world needs you]

Hasina, on 04 January 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

So it's basically a human created New Age. It didn't 'happen', we'll make it happen.

And bummer about the ills, hopefully when 'society progresses' they'll work on illnesses sooner or later.

Everything is human created. Nothing happens unless we make it happen. Not sure what you were expecting...the New Age is here because we have worked towards it for a very long time, thousands if not more years. Improving the human condition has happened generation after generation, a setback here and there, but generally from the moment we crawled out the ocean, then into trees, then down from them, we have consistently made things better.

I detect massive doses of cynicism in Sector Hasina!!!!

Illness, well if it is a personal illness like alcoholism, only the person suffering can make the choice for themselves.

Now alcoholism as a social disease, well this is a recent phenomena, it was not until gin was industrialized in London that alcoholism began as a social disease. It is not something we have to live with, it is a product of Industralization, and much of what we are doing is learnign how to compensate for we were not evolved to live in an industrial, now a post-industrial, society. Society can social engineer, instead of leaving it to corporations alone, ourselves. We can do it with alcholism so the social factors that contribute to it are reduced. It would create less alcholics in the long run but for those already hooked, they have to choose it, we cannot do nothing about that.

So, yes, it is human created, with or without your participation, we are building it. Society does go on even if we choose to drop out, we all drop out at times, we are all invited back whenever, no one is expected to do anything, we want to do this.

I don't see any bummers, society "will" progress, it has been, and the illnesses will be worked on if they are of a social nature and most do have social components, and the rest which are personal, or the parts of disease that can be individually managed, those will be worked on when the individual his or herself decide to work on it.

I really don't understand your complaint, it seems as if you, who I presume places great value on the individual, who deemphasizes the collective, it seems as if you are now going to criticize the collective for not doing something you or me alone should do, seek help for our own personal ills, then when it comes time for the collective to actually take action within its own domain, such as regulate alcohol, you are against that too. Now I could be wrong in my assumptions, I can happily agree to that if I am, but if I am not wrong it seems you are just being oppositional in both instances. Being against things over and over is so easy, being for things is more challenging. I won't blame you for taking the easy way out but cynicism is not going to push progress or humanity to the next level.

We are already here, the New Age has begun. But even when Industrialization started, many still chose to live on farms, but the world changed with or without them, and eventually they all moved to the city too. I expect to see you, eventually. Until then happy farming!

[The world needs you]

I also forgot to add one more really important thing to me, if not the most important, the New Age to me is also seeing my city and neighborhood go from OK, to bad, and now get better again. The world is getting better starting right here. People are doing this, it isn't happening on it's own, we have a really good city council now as well. In making my world better, I see it happening, all the time.

[Hasina]

Everything is human created? Ya know, except everything that's not.

Sorry to say IBY, it just sounds like a lot of vague nonsense that sounds nice but doesn't have any substance.

And by 'ills' I mean genetic disorders and diseases. Things you catch or have written into the very fabric of your DNA, like MS or Huntington's.

Edited by Hasina, 04 January 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[The world needs you]

Hasina, on 04 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Everything is human created? Ya know, except everything that's not.

Sorry to say IBY, it just sounds like a lot of vague nonsense that sounds nice but doesn't have any substance.

And by 'ills' I mean genetic disorders and diseases. Things you catch or have written into the very fabric of your DNA, like MS or Huntington's.

Your narrative is shared by many but I don't see it as being competitive or opposing to the New Age, it is not like Windows 95 was competing or against Windows 98, just an upgrade.

It is vague which is why I am asking for proof, in that you are right, but it makes perfect sense to me, more egalitarian societies are being crafted, I find that desirable.

Others will naturally oppose, that is expected, but it does not require their acceptance to validate the concept of the New Age.

Sorry, I don't understand how the collective is related to genetic ills. Those will be defeated through scientific progress, in time, that I've no doubt.

[grendals_bane]

I believe you, on 04 January 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

For me the New Age is about progress, continuing progress, so it is not people getting better out of no where as your described, a sweet naive view in my opinion. Progressive politics give many hope because we can see that change does happen, has been happening, but the speed will increase now because of the New Age.

It doesn't take a "New Age" to progress, the human race has been progressing, politically, culturally and technologically for thousands of years, without the need for a "New Age". You only need to look at the various revolutions of the last few hundred years, the end of South Africa's apartied, women getting the vote, etc, etc, all forms of "progress" that took generations to bring about.

Quote

Life is getting better for many in all sectors. The BRIC nations, Brazil for example, once was a borrower, now they are a lender with a growing middle class. The Mahgreb just went through the Arab Spring and dictators have fallen. India is going to make progress in worker safety due to the factory fires and on women's rights because of the rapes. America is going to address mental health among its pursuit of continual progress.

This all depends on what you view as "better", what may be good for one person isn't neccesarily so for another. The greater number of people with wealth generally means a greater number of people in poverty, so therefore life would only be getting "better" for those with the means.

[The New Richard Nixon]

Bacteria ain't created by Humans..

[The world needs you]

grendals_bane, on 04 January 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

It doesn't take a "New Age" to progress, the human race has been progressing, politically, culturally and technologically for thousands of years, without the need for a "New Age". You only need to look at the various revolutions of the last few hundred years, the end of South Africa's apartied, women getting the vote, etc, etc, all forms of "progress" that took generations to bring about.



This all depends on what you view as "better", what may be good for one person isn't neccesarily so for another. The greater number of people with wealth generally means a greater number of people in poverty, so therefore life would only be getting "better" for those with the means.

The New Age is not the reason for progress just a name for an era. The point is exactly as you have stated, progress has been going on for thousands of years.

The New Richard Nixon, on 04 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Bacteria ain't created by Humans..

That has nothing to do with the New Age.

[grendals_bane]

I believe you, on 04 January 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

The New Age is not the reason for progress just a name for an era. The point is exactly as you have stated, progress has been going on for thousands of years.

So what is the need for a New Age then if we remain in the staus quo?

If there is no significant change politically, culturally or technologically then there is no reason to proclaim a New Age as there is little to no shift in the way we live.

For example, if there was a global revolution and the world decided to become a united, socialist planet, then that could be considered a New Age.

If we all decided to quit the modern world and live in the wild, that could be considered a New Age.

Or if we discovered how to live forever, then that could also be considered a New Age.

I know my examples are over simplified but they get my point across, that for anything to be deemed a New Age it requires something that completely changes our way of life, not neccesarily for the better either.

The development of agriculture  or the Industrial Revolution could be deemed the start of New Ages as these had a massive impact on human society that did change the status quo.

[CRIPTIC CHAMELEON]

Well I am reading the saturday Age today but I'm not sure about the new age where would I get that.  

[The world needs you]

grendals_bane, on 04 January 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

So what is the need for a New Age then if we remain in the staus quo?

If there is no significant change politically, culturally or technologically then there is no reason to proclaim a New Age as there is little to no shift in the way we live.

For example, if there was a global revolution and the world decided to become a united, socialist planet, then that could be considered a New Age.

If we all decided to quit the modern world and live in the wild, that could be considered a New Age.

Or if we discovered how to live forever, then that could also be considered a New Age.

I know my examples are over simplified but they get my point across, that for anything to be deemed a New Age it requires something that completely changes our way of life, not neccesarily for the better either.

The development of agriculture  or the Industrial Revolution could be deemed the start of New Ages as these had a massive impact on human society that did change the status quo.

The New Age is in the exponential pace progress has taken. Of course with globalism, ideas and culture are both exchanged at a faster pace, so there are very mundane explanations  why progress will eventually become planetary, even if the reasons are oversimplified as you stated. It is not the status quo because that is breaking, has been, society is demanding change, not just here but everywhere. Eventually progress is going to create the type of planet you described, I don't think the New Age begins the moment a global government is proposed, that is the end result.

What is more important than a global government, which is a political expression of the New Age but not the New Age in its entirety, is progress. A world where every human and animal are treated with dignity, who have a vote, who have access to health, housing, transportation, and good jobs (these extend to humans of course but we need a serious conversation on the treatment of animals). Of course when I say transportation, as a progressive, I mean more trains and less cars. But this is not a dream, progress which has been ongoing for thousands of years, and keeps going, will achieve this.

You ask what need is there for a New Age? None, it is a name for an era.

Edited by I believe you, 04 January 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Seriously for a moment, do people seriously expect that any tangible would happen just like that? If taxes are going up, the economy is going down, etc etc, perhaps that's an indication that the old assumptions that that's the way society has to be are in fact, or have already, come to an end. After all, the "Democratic" capitalist economies that we've been brainwashed into beleiving are the natural ways for society to be ordered are only a few hundred years old at most, if they are coming to end, perhaps it's time for them to do so? Perhaps in fact, rather than them being the ultimate in human civilisation, they were in fact largely fraudulent and now people are realising that? I think, to be quite serious and non flippant for a change, things really are going to change. It may not be overtly blissful at the time, but it's a natural process for things to come to the end of their lifespan, and perhaps the way that our societies are ordered now is just following that process. Will it be the end of civilisation? Only if we believe that this is the only way for civilisation to be.
That's what I say.