902 replies to this topic

[White Unicorn]

DingoLingo, on 17 December 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

I would be more inclined to believe in a older civilization then aliens building the pyramids..


Ancient Aliens.. sorry.. I honestly feel the people who believe that pap.. have no faith in there own ancestors

That brings back memories when I was young and "Chariot of the Gods" first came out as well as the first "Planet of the Apes". Both had really religious people ready to "burn the writers at the stake" along with Darwin,  the sixties were such fun LOL   I was young when I found my answer in the movie at the end.  "You blew it up!"  I reconciled all the crap and theorized there were ancient civilizations with technologies that somehow got destroyed, naturally or otherwise on earth. It  doesn't necessarily make them aliens even if they weren't the same exact species of homo sapien that we know today!

[DieChecker]

dreamland, on 16 December 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

First of all,,i dont think that egyptians could build such a massive structure like pyramids...even if they did they had to have outside knowledge and help and in this case ..extraterrestials...

There are lots of engineering assessments online that show how they did it. Read a couple.

Quote

EVen today in 21st century it will take us many many years to duplicate pyramids in egypt using high cranes and high tech tools.

Except it is done all the time. 15000 unit container ships are loaded at the rate of about a container every three minutes. And the containers can top 24 tons. 10 times as much as the average pyramid block size of 2.5 tons.
http://en.wikipedia..../Container_ship

Using blocks 10 times larger/heavier the work would have went 10 times faster, no? So then that would mean 2.3 million blocks turns into about 230 thousand blocks, and with a 1 per 3 minutes delivery rate, and an 8 hour work day, and a 200 day work year. The work would be done in like 7.2 years. But... since a pyramid is Much larger then a ship, they could probably get dozens of cranes involved, and rig them up onto scaffolds to elevate them. After all they build skyscrapers this way, right? So probably could be done in a single year... 8 months maybe.

Saying it can not be done with modern technology is Soooooo.... 19th century

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If many people believe that primitive egyptians could do it by themselves so why there are no signs of any tools or remains of the builders around the pyramid?

There are quarries with tools left behind. Rubble debris of the ramps and constructions. And a whole workers village. As well as a workers graveyard. Seems like there is plenty of evidence.

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Its also possible that egyptians could somehow levitate these heave blocks of stone just like Edward Leedskalnin who build coral castle in florida and who claims he knows the secrets of the pyramids. I believe that egyptians had close relationship with gods and extraterrestials beings and only with their help,they could build pyramids.

Possibly, but unlikely.

[RaptorBites]

[cladking]

DieChecker, on 18 December 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

There are lots of engineering assessments online that show how they did it. Read a couple.

For everything that exists there has always been a perfectly reasonable and rational explanation.
If something were different than what we see then the explanation would simply be different.  This
explanation has always been wrong in the past, but hey who knows, maybe this time we really do
know everything there is to know. Maybe science really does generate mysteries when it studies
those who are superstitious.

Maybe the evidence isn't supposed to closely fit the facts.

[cladking]

DieChecker, on 18 December 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

There are quarries with tools left behind. Rubble debris of the ramps and constructions. And a whole workers village. As well as a workers graveyard. Seems like there is plenty of evidence.

Sure there are.

And that's the point of the thread;  when you already know everything you need to know
there's no longer any need to look or explore.  You saw how fast Zahi worked the cave into
his belief system after having said there are no caves at Giza.  He didn't even get out of
it before he had written it off as immaterial and unimportant.  He not only didn't study, in-
vestigate, or excavate the cave but as far as I could tell he never looked down and never
looked back.

People are superb at knowing but very poor at discovering.  We used to know the earth
was flat.

It's been years since Dr Hawass has been dragged into the cave and the only things we
know are that it's there and there's now a gate on it so no one can study it.

I don't know how anyone can support orthodoxy and what they are doing in the 21st cen-
tury.  Rather than looking for answers they sit around counting the numbers of angels on
the head of a pin and trying to understand their motivation for dancing.  It's pathetic!!!

Edited by cladking, 18 December 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Quaentum]

cladking, on 16 December 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

I believe you must be reading something into my question.

I'm merely implying that it would be impossible to do such a vast amount of work
without leaving evidence.  The pyramids are there and this doesn't prove they were
built by muscle power or aliens.  The fact evidence doesn't survive is more indicative
of aliens than muscle power but this hardly proves it was aliens either.

I merely want to know how it was done.  I'm tired of guesses.

Then it's time you stopped guessing and look at what has been found.  camps that would have held thousands of workers, a ramp and chisel marks.  None of which say high technology.

[cladking]

Quaentum, on 18 December 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Then it's time you stopped guessing and look at what has been found.  camps that would have held thousands of workers, a ramp and chisel marks.  None of which say high technology.

The human race didn't build the pyramids by stopping and looking at what was
there.  They looked for what wasn't in plain sight and they looked for even the
most subtle causations of what they saw.  They progressed very slowly because
they lacked computers and lab equipment.

The question isn't whether we have found a means that satisfies the curiousity
of some people.  The question is do we know how the pyramids were built and
the answer is obviously a resounding "NO".

[Quaentum]

cladking, on 18 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

The human race didn't build the pyramids by stopping and looking at what was
there.  They looked for what wasn't in plain sight and they looked for even the
most subtle causations of what they saw.  They progressed very slowly because
they lacked computers and lab equipment.

The question isn't whether we have found a means that satisfies the curiousity
of some people.  The question is do we know how the pyramids were built and
the answer is obviously a resounding "NO".

Actually the first step in building the pyramids would be to look at what was there to determine the best location to build.  Do we know exactly how the pyramids were built?  NO.  Can we, applying critical thinking to the evidence and come up with a valid theory?  Yes, as long as we don't ignore or dismiss the evidence.

There were thousands of paid workers.  Were they just hanging around collecting a paycheck?  No.  They were hired for a purpose, to perform a task.  The camps are near the Great Pyramid so what would you have hired thousands of workers to do out there where only the pyramids, sphinx and associated buildings are?  Why build of course.  What would they have built?

A ramp exists on the south side of the Great Pyramid.  Would they have built a ramp just to build it?  No, they would have built it to use it.  I wonder what it could have been used for?

There are chisel marks on the stones.  Would they have put them there for decoration?  NO.  Now why would there be chisel marks on the stones?

Thousands of workers would only have been required for large projects and the only projects that fit are the pyramids.  The ramp would have been used to move something on and it is easy to see it could have been used to haul the stones to the appropriate level to be put in place.  The chisel marks are a clear indication of humans shaping the stones.  All of that supports humans having built the pyramids.

Does any of it support advanced technology, whether terrestrial or alien?  No it doesn't.

[praetorian-legio XIII]

For everything that exists there has always been a perfectly reasonable and rational explanation.(post #34)

Please excuse the digression, but....

If that statement is truly what you believe I kind of feel sorry for you. What a way to live. No mystery, no magic, no unknown, no desire, no wonder.....wow.

Reasonable and rational, yup, that pretty much sums up human existence. No explaination needed. Oh wait, would you please explain "love". I haven't quite figured that one out yet (and hopefully never will)

Edited by praetorian-legio XIII, 18 December 2012 - 05:24 PM.

[DieChecker]

cladking, on 18 December 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

For everything that exists there has always been a perfectly reasonable and rational explanation. If something were different than what we see then the explanation would simply be different.  This explanation has always been wrong in the past, but hey who knows, maybe this time we really do know everything there is to know. Maybe science really does generate mysteries when it studies those who are superstitious.

Maybe the evidence isn't supposed to closely fit the facts.

The explaination has not always been wrong, it has always evolved. What has not happened is super radical changes in theory, where aliens or gods need to be involved.

cladking, on 18 December 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Sure there are.

And that's the point of the thread;  when you already know everything you need to know there's no longer any need to look or explore.  You saw how fast Zahi worked the cave into his belief system after having said there are no caves at Giza.  He didn't even get out of it before he had written it off as immaterial and unimportant.  He not only didn't study, investigate, or excavate the cave but as far as I could tell he never looked down and never looked back.

Well, I thought the point of the thread was to talk about possible caves... and not about how we need to ignore existing evidence. If we want to dig up new evidence and show that there are caves... I am listening.

From what I've seen in the past, there is no cave. There are man made tunnels and tombs and the Cave of the Birds is just a short tomb. The supposed evidence of the cave could have been video/photographed anywhere in the world. Why didn't they start on the hillside filming the Great Pyramid and then drop down and go into the tomb, and then the cave system?? Surely that would have only taken 5 minutes to do. Since it was not done, and the videos start with already in the "cave", I'm suspecting there is something shady going on. The stills that are all over Collins' site could very easily have been taken out of context. A video would have been better. Even in 2008, most digital cameras had video capability. He had all day to take photos and video, right?

I believe the tomb has a barred door on it now. I'll bet that if someone did want to get in there all they would need is quite a lot of money.

Edited by DieChecker, 18 December 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[cladking]

praetorian-legio XIII, on 18 December 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

For everything that exists there has always been a perfectly reasonable and rational explanation.(post #34)

Please excuse the digression, but....

If that statement is truly what you believe I kind of feel sorry for you. What a way to live. No mystery, no magic, no unknown, no desire, no wonder.....wow.

Reasonable and rational, yup, that pretty much sums up human existence. No explaination needed. Oh wait, would you please explain "love". I haven't quite figured that one out yet (and hopefully never will)

You're taking my meaning wrong here.

I'm scoffing at the concept that anyone knows anything.  A witch doctor explains things in
terms of evil spirits and people suck it up like nectar.  A religious figure attributes something
to the gods and people throw money at him.  A scientist explains it in terms of our puny know-
ledge and people take it as "Truth".  They're all wrong and we don't know anything and might
never.

There's nothing that will stop people from learning the truth better than already having all the
answers.  It might not be so much our lack of intelligence impeding progress as it is out omni-
science.

[cladking]

DieChecker, on 18 December 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Well, I thought the point of the thread was to talk about possible caves... and not about how we need to ignore existing evidence. If we want to dig up new evidence and show that there are caves... I am listening.

Possible caves?!!!!??

How much evidence is needed before you can say there are caves here?  Does a hole
in the ground have to be peer reviewed before it's a hole in the ground?  Gating up a
hole in the ground and putting a gaurd on it doesn't make it less than a hole in the ground.

So long as we are are on the subject are you aware that they've been filling other holes in
the ground at Giza with concrete?  They are destroying evidence almost daily in their zeal
to find ramps and bumpkins which never existed.  If that huge hole on the east side of the
pyramid that was used to load sleds weren't so big they'd probably fill it in as well.

[Mangoze]

Andrew Collins' site refers to it as the Tomb of the Birds

I'm pretty sure it's the same tomb Hawass describes here.  However I can't see the gates on Hawass' site.

[Harte]

praetorian-legio XIII, on 18 December 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Reasonable and rational, yup, that pretty much sums up human existence. No explaination needed. Oh wait, would you please explain "love". I haven't quite figured that one out yet (and hopefully never will)

If you really hope never to know, then definitely don't click here.

Harte

[cladking]

Mangoze, on 18 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Andrew Collins' site refers to it as the Tomb of the Birds

I'm pretty sure it's the same tomb Hawass describes here.  However I can't see the gates on Hawass' site.

Dreamland posted a video of Hawass being dragged kicking and screaming into the cave in the
opening post.  He eventually even admitted it was a cave after he got back into it near the second
pyramid.  This is Collin's Cave of which he's written at least one book and posted repeatedly on
the net.  It is real.

Since that time Hawass has gated it off and refuses people entrance and no excavation has taken
place.  This isn't science anymore.  Even a witch doctor would study something before making any
proclamations.  We have exceeded the ignorance of any previous society.  We now know every-
thing even before we find it whether it fits previous beliefs or not.