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Gay Marriage Ban

Posted by CommunitarianKevin , 09 May 2012 · 558 views

So North Carolina just pass a bill that banned gay marriage. What is dumber than the ban itself was their response. They said they aren't against gay people, they are just pro-marriage...

Really? Let me show you how stupid that sounds...

Let's pretend a law was passed making it illegal for women to get jobs and then saying we aren't against women, we are pro-men working...

Idiots




I heard about this on the news this morning too...

That standard response of "we are pro-marriage" makes zero sense if you look at how badly a lot of hetero's treat marriage... I mean really, how can they point at homosexuals and claim they'll "ruin" marriage when men and women marrying each other are doing such a great job of it already?

Sheesh.  The whole concept is ridiculous because the man+woman only marriage is a religious concept and shouldn't be involved in decisions made by the state.  If two people love each other then they should be able to legally share their lives.
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Being gay is outlawed in the bible.
But not the constitution.
That's what these politicians choose to forget.

What ever happened to the separation of church and state?
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CommunitarianKevin
May 09 2012 09:27 PM
A Separation of Church and State...see what is funny about that is the way the common definition came about. Basically Catholics were trying to receive funding for Catholic schools so they could teach their version of Christianity, so Protestants came up with this whole "separation of church and state" to OPPRESS CATHOLICS. Now it is comming around to bite them in the ass. This country has never been about the things people claim. It has been about religious feedom and equality...for white, protestant, men...

I have never understood how someone can be a Republican and a hardcore Christian. The two contradict eachother...
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There are approximately 9.6 million people in NC.  Enough of them felt that this was the correct thing to do that they took the time to VOTE for legislators that would make that change.  If the population changes it's opinion in future then they can remedy the situation at that time.  I don't see the problem.  I personally think it is a sin to live a  gay lifestyle but I also think it's a sin to be immoral in any number of ways from gambling to overeating to drinking too much.  I've done all three of those many times so I don't judge others for their transgression of the law of God.  Not my place to judge any more than it's my place to tell North Carolinians how they should vote on matters of conscience.
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Wolvenblood
May 09 2012 11:27 PM
I honestly don't see this big deal over gay marriage - if two people are in love, be they a man and a woman, same sex, different race etc, does it even matter? It's their life choice and well, why can't they? Why should someone have to struggle to marry just because of their sexuality?
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CommunitarianKevin
May 09 2012 11:41 PM

and then, on 09 May 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

There are approximately 9.6 million people in NC.  Enough of them felt that this was the correct thing to do that they took the time to VOTE for legislators that would make that change.  If the population changes it's opinion in future then they can remedy the situation at that time.  I don't see the problem.  I personally think it is a sin to live a  gay lifestyle but I also think it's a sin to be immoral in any number of ways from gambling to overeating to drinking too much.  I've done all three of those many times so I don't judge others for their transgression of the law of God.  Not my place to judge any more than it's my place to tell North Carolinians how they should vote on matters of conscience.

Religion cannot be a factor when it comes to the Constitution, and that is ever the only argument. Our government is supposed to protect from “Tyranny of the Majority.” The rights in the Constitution were given so that people could not be discriminated against on a basis of majority opinion. Depending on which time we look at slavery was supported by the majority, segregation was supported by the majority, not giving women rights was supported by the majority and all of those are now accepted as wrong. But the impression I get is that those who oppose to gay marriage are also against those things…Once again I do not get it…How do supporters of the Constitution and freedom and equality for all support this? I mean basically Republicans are saying “everyone is equal…unless your gay, then **** you!” So what if the majority of the people support it. Shall we legalize raping and pillaging if a majority support it, or is it still wrong? Over 70% of women will be sexually assaulted in their life time…that is a vast majority, so should sexual assault be considered the norm and acceptable, or is that wrong?
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CommunitarianKevin
May 09 2012 11:43 PM

Wolvenblood, on 09 May 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I honestly don't see this big deal over gay marriage - if two people are in love, be they a man and a woman, same sex, different race etc, does it even matter? It's their life choice and well, why can't they? Why should someone have to struggle to marry just because of their sexuality?

This is another good point. I often ask people how much my marriage affects them. Their answer is "well it doesn't." Well if my marriage doesn't affect them, why does it matter if I am married to a man or a woman?
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HuttonEtAl, on 09 May 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Religion cannot be a factor when it comes to the Constitution, and that is ever the only argument. Our government is supposed to protect from “Tyranny of the Majority.” The rights in the Constitution were given so that people could not be discriminated against on a basis of majority opinion. Depending on which time we look at slavery was supported by the majority, segregation was supported by the majority, not giving women rights was supported by the majority and all of those are now accepted as wrong. But the impression I get is that those who oppose to gay marriage are also against those things…Once again I do not get it…How do supporters of the Constitution and freedom and equality for all support this? I mean basically Republicans are saying “everyone is equal…unless your gay, then **** you!” So what if the majority of the people support it. Shall we legalize raping and pillaging if a majority support it, or is it still wrong? Over 70% of women will be sexually assaulted in their life time…that is a vast majority, so should sexual assault be considered the norm and acceptable, or is that wrong?
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I agree that religion should not be forced upon anyone.  But a common/shared sense of morality within a community is NOT synonymous with religion.  Primitive tribes with no religion have a moral base they cling to.  And as far as I'm aware, no group of citizens in the US have ever voted for criminal behavior such as rape to be the norm.  When citizens practicing an alternative lifestyle are in a majority and can impose through the vote, their worldview on the rest, then so be it.  Until then I see no problem with the current system of legal partnerships which give same sex couples EVERY legal protection that married folks enjoy.  This issue is an assault on the values of another group of citizens.  It serves no other purpose.  It's not enough to have every civil right... this group MUST force the rest of the country to accept them as completely the same even when they know that same sex behavior is anathema to many in the country.  When did it become acceptable to have a minority ride roughshod over the rest of the country?  At what point did a "tyranny of the minority" become acceptable?
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Tyranny?  How does marriage between two women or two men equate to tyranny for anyone else?

It is about equality.  One group of people should not be able to make life choices for another group, regardless of the size of either group.  By stating that people cannot marry whom they chose, we are saying that the government (and by proxy other groups of people) gets to dictate to those people what rights they have, and how they get to live their lives.  It is saying that all people are not equal, only those who conform to societies rules.

I, for one, have a BIG problem with that idea.
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CommunitarianKevin
May 14 2012 07:52 AM
In response to both of you…

The term “tyranny of the majority” and “tyranny of the minority” are definitions out of political science text books. The word “tyranny” may seem too harsh, but that is the term they use. Maybe “oppression” would be a better word.

Protection from tyranny of the majority means that people’s rights and freedoms are not trampled on because of a popular vote. Tyranny of the minority means that people’s rights and freedoms are not trampled on because of a few strong wealthy people or a minority ethnic group or religion or something of that nature.
Morality and religion are not synonymous, that is true, but the morality debate in America is based on religion. I have not heard a moral argument against it that is not religiously based.  Also I would be careful with the claim that there are primitive tribes with no religion…

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When citizens practicing an alternative lifestyle are in a majority and can impose through the vote, their worldview on the rest, then so be it.


See, that is the single biggest problem. This is what leads to oppression. I still use my rape example…what if the majority thought rape was okay? You say that they have not voted for it? True but what if they did? Here are some things majority rule did cause…oppression of blacks, American Indians, immigrants, women, and more. Majorities did not want blacks to have the right to vote or be citizens. The same was for the Indians. All of the oppression in this country has come from majority rule. If you think oppression of people is okay because of majority rule, then we will never agree. These people should not have to PROVE that they deserve the same rights, freedoms, and privileges as everyone else, that should be a given, especially with the whole freedom and equality thing Americans preach. We should be embarrassed that it took civil rights movements to change things. It is embarrassing that blacks, Indians, women, and everyone else was not equal from the start. Anyone that is not embarrassed by this really should not be preaching equality and freedom for all.

Also gay rights is not a case of tyranny of the minority. That is an unfair comparison. They are simply trying to have the same freedoms as everyone else, the same financial benefits as everyone else. They are not asking for more than that, nor are they trying to oppress the majority or rule them. They simply want to be given the same things that all other Americans are entitled to. They have the freedom of expression, the right to privacy and the Fourteenth Amendment. They should be able to express they sexuality if they so choose, their sex life should be a personal matter, and they should have the same liberties as everyone else.

Two final points…

First, does my marriage affect you? If your answer is no, why would it make a difference if I was married to a man?

Second, be careful about majority rule because at some point you will find yourself in a minority…
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