Other countries besides U.S.

[ScreaminEagle]

Hey, don't get me wrong I like the English very much. I just like to defend my country to the teeth. I served with many British soldiers, men and women, in the war and they were awesome. I have observed customs of many countries and enjoyed them. But when you've been to a 3rd world country and seen the poverty and senseless deaths it sticks with you like a knife. Without war their would be no peace; too many wackos controlling their peoples food and money.

[Fluffybunny]

Without war their would be no peace;

If you say so...

[superfly911911]

He's right without war there would be no peace. war in general is a bad thing but more times than not force is the only option to silence terrorist groups (such as Alquieda, the shining path ect) also it is the only awnser to expansionist powers WW1 & 2, and also the gulf war. so therefore the usual result of war is peace, short pr long term.

[Scar]

Lets see if we can make sense of that .......

without war they would be no peace.

so (im really trying here) if war needed for peace but peace is not war , Are you saying that peace will never happen because war is neseccary to preserve peace which isn't really peace becasue there is war

or are you saying that peace already exists and the killing of many innocent people across the world (not just Irag) is a cost we must pay to preserve the peace which really doesnt exist because we are always at war

I think what you mean is, in order to protect the majority of people sacrifices have to made to few. (im sure I have heard a similar annalogy )

But peace is definetly not peace until such time as no blood is shed over political or religious diffrences. (Beer brawls and Crime will always be part of society)

Its not a nice Idea I agree. But with all the loonies in the world , I think its the best we're gonna get

I think Im right , Hec I Know Im right

[stillcrazy]

But peace is definetly not peace until such time as no blood is shed over political or religious diffrences.

There are three kinds of War.

War over religion (This includes ethnics)

War over Politics (Can also include ethnics and religion)

War over Power (Includes Politics and ethnics and Religion)

War does not bring peace, preventing war brings peace.

The real hero of the next War, will be the one who prevents it.

War makes Human life Cheap, and everything else dear.

In peace, Sons bury their fathers, In war Fathers bury their sons.

Nuff said, I'll shut up

[Fluffybunny]

Very well put stillcrazy.

War is very unpleasant and should be avoided.

[geeohn]

war has alot of side effects.

[crosswarrior]

Peace is not the compromise to evil, but rather the absence of it. I wish thatv we could all just be peaceful and loving; but we are not. And there are evil people out there who must be stopped. Tell me, who did the right thing in WWII, Chamberlin- by trying to prevent the war by appeasing Hitler; or Churchill-by opposing Hitler. They both wanted peace; but there is not one set way to peace. There are sometime that we must fight for peace. We should do everything in our power to avoid fighting; but when it becomes necessary to fight;then it becomes our duty and honor to fight with all our power , and to be furious in battle so that we can all the sooner embrace the olive branch of peace.

Edited February 14, 2004 by crosswarrior

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Thier is no such thing as peace only calms before the next conflict...sorry its my opinion and just an observation about human history...we are a war making race who only seeks peace when it suites us...thats all i have to say on the subject.

[Dowdy]

war has alot of side effects.

there are plus sides to it aswell.

WW2 created the V2 Rocket, which enabled us to go to space, which created computers, which lead to robotics, which computers making our lives easier, which makes computers and robotics lead to reasearch purposes , which will eventually lead to the cure for diseases (cancer, aids etc) which will eventully save millions of lives.

But that's just WW2, most of the other wars have solved nothing and gave us nothing.

And how many of you wouldn't be here if it wasn't for wars. My grandma and grandpa met in WW2.

I'm sure there are a few...

[bathory]

yup calms before the next agressor comes out of the woodwork

[wunarmdscissor]

Few things id like to comment on lol.

Hey, don't get me wrong I like the English very much. I just like to defend my country to the teeth. I served with many British soldiers

Right this isnt that big a deal and i can see how it happens but.............

The England is a nation within the United Kingdom (britain) along with Scotland, Wales and Nothern Ireland. We (in the other home nations) get really annoyed when described as "English" because well..... we're not. Its nothing against the english understand as am sure they wouldnt like to be described as welsh lol (who would?... lol only kiddin )

Dowdy i agree in part with what your saying though.. the only reason technology moves on in war is because it has to, mankind has the ability to do it whenever though it only has the will to do it when pushed.

Chamberlin- by trying to prevent the war by appeasing Hitler; or Churchill-by opposing Hitler.

Its very unfair to say chamberlain didnt oppose hitler, he wasnt as strong willed as churchill but he was doin what he though was the right thing for britain. We werent prepared for war, all branches of our military had been massively downsized after WW1. Chamberlain knew this , he hated hitler and knew war was inevetiable he just tried to delay until britain was strong enough to fight him.

In giving up parts of cezcslovakia he knew it would delay hitler long enough. Dont forget hitler wanted war in 1938 , in his opinion he had been defeated that day. Tactically in that respect chamberlain did everyone a favour. If britain had wen to war them we would have almost certainly been defeated.

Hey, don't get me wrong I like the English very much. I just like to defend my country to the teeth. I served with many British soldiers, men and women, in the war and they were awesome. I have observed customs of many countries and enjoyed them. But when you've been to a 3rd world country and seen the poverty and senseless deaths it sticks with you like a knife. Without war their would be no peace; too many wackos controlling their peoples food and money.

Ok i see what your saying, theres nothing wrong with sticking up for your nation. However you need to step back sometimes and think "ok is what i am doing here the right thing".

For instance take your comment on the third world, Now your right theres far too much suffering in the world FAR too much, but why arent we gettin rid of their dictators and corrupt leaders IE: Mugabe?

Its because it doesnt suit us, now we live in very good and nice countries, however it doesnt mean our foreign policies are correct just because our government says so.

Hell if we didnt question everything they did it wouldnt be democracy rather it would be a dictatorship and in the end we would be no better than these third world dictators.

When we question America, britain or any country in west's foreign policies it isnt an attack on the country itself, its just the people excersing their god given right to ask thats all. We cant just let our leaders , who dont always know whats best, do what they want. Remember even our leaders are human beings and can make mistakes at crucial times.

So in future dont take it so personally

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

there are plus sides to it aswell.

WWI & WWII also gave us mustard gas, gas chambers, prison camps, machine guns, tanks & millions dead.

My grandparents did not meet in during WWII, they were seperated by it. My grandfather was held prisoner by by Germans. My grandmothers both lost young children due to WWII.

Advances learned in battlefield medicine are learned only because with each war we also learn to cause even more damage to the human body & soul.

The billions spent on technology for war could be much better spent on:

1. universal health care for every man woman & child on this planet

2. food & shelter for every man, woman & child on this planet

3. education for every man, woman & child on this planet

As SC would say "Peace be with you"

Dot9M

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

Edited February 14, 2004 by Daughter of the Nine Moons

[Talon]

War just leads to the next one.

European wars of occupation - WWI ------------- WW2

-------------------------------------|---------------------- |

---------------------------------Cold War-----Isrieli war on Palistine

-------------------------------------|---------------------- |

--------------------------Veitnam, Afganistan etc -------|

-------------------------------------|---------------------- |

----------------------War on Terrorism (Iraq, Aganistan etc etc)

Edited February 14, 2004 by Talon S.

[wunarmdscissor]

War just leads to the next one.

European wars of occupation - WWI - WW2

| |

Cold War Isrieli war on Palistine

| |

Veitnam, Afganistan etc |

| |

War on Terrorism (Iraq, Aganistan etc etc)

LoL think youve opened a can of worms there.

[Talon]

I follow it easy enough

[bathory]

For instance take your comment on the third world, Now your right theres far too much suffering in the world FAR too much, but why arent we gettin rid of their dictators and corrupt leaders IE: Mugabe?

Its because it doesnt suit us, now we live in very good and nice countries, however it doesnt mean our foreign policies are correct just because our government says so.

interestingly enough, when the US President was on meet the press that fat guy asked the question about why the US hasn't gone into North Korea, etc etc all those other countries which can be considered a threat, the answer was because the diplomatic process is still going, which seems like a fair comment. We aren't really privy to the talks behind closed doors, remember in the case of Saddam, he'd run everyone around for 20 years and diplomacy had run to its end.

[wunarmdscissor]

Yeah im not wanting to argue about the war i was just pointing out that screaming eagle mentioned human suffering in the third world and i was highlighting that we arent going into these countries.

I was just trying to say that you can support a government as well as question it at the same time.

The war wasnt about human suffering anyway.

BTW the israelis have broken no fewer than 40 of the UN's most "respected" resolutions as well.

Anyway lets not denegrate this topic into a pro-war anti-war debate again.

[stillcrazy]

Yeah im not wanting to argue about the war i was just pointing out that screaming eagle mentioned human suffering in the third world and i was highlighting that we arent going into these countries

wunarmdscissor. If you noted Mr. Screaming Eagle has been locked out.

I think he joined just to bash others from any country other than the US.

Suggest you look at his post history. You'll see what I mean.

I was just trying to say that you can support a government as well as question it at the same time.

A bunch of these to ya

Peace to you all

[ScreaminEagle]

I am definitely not here to bash other countries! I am here to get an understanding of how we as a world think. I just don't like having to defend my own. I am very territorial. I wish the world could live in harmony but there are too many cooks in one stew. Which is always gonna come out tasting like crap. We have not gone into N. Korea because it will be another Vietnam and we will fight bitterly and lose many allied lives. It is a ball of worms there with fighting that the general pop. doesn't here about on the news.

[+joc]

I am definitely not here to bash other countries! I am here to get an understanding of how we as a world think.

I would suggest you check out Left vs Right in General Discussion.

This forum is evolving away from bitter, hateful, rhetoric and hopefully this

thread will help you see that others think differently than you and I on many

issues. It doesn't make them right ...but then neither are you or I always

right....sometimes we think wrongly because we don't take the other

point of view in its own context. A link to the thread is provided below:

Left vs Right

Edited February 15, 2004 by joc

[+joc]

War just leads to the next one.

LoL think youve opened a can of worms there.

It actually seems to be pretty accurate....*wait...that can't be right...agreeing

with Talon?!...*

I think if one put their head to it one could probably construct a rather

elaborate model similar to Talon's which goes back to the beginning of man's

history. Wars grow out of each other. At a distance they all seem different and

far removed from one another. Good point Talon.

Edited February 15, 2004 by joc

[stillcrazy]

I think if one put their head to it one could probably construct a rather

elaborate model similar to Talon's which goes back to the beginning of man's

history.

I think someone has already done this. I've been trying to find it so I could add a link, but so far the best I can come up with is the history of mankind. Even though you can follow some of the major wars it doesn't give the minor little conflicts.

But, after all these centuries of humans being on the planet, you would think that man would have learned how to prevent war instead of ways to make war easier.

[Celumnaz]

Peace is a dream. Sitting in someone else's chair, looking at them wrong, having greener grass is reality.

Unless maybe we can modify DNA to remove envy, hate, sadism, etc... from everyone somehow it's a waste of time to find better methods of peace.

Only practical solution is to find better methods for war.

Peaceful people like myself are already peaceful. I'll take 20 more broken bones if it means myself or someone else avoiding a fight. I'm not the problem. It's the person doing the breaking, doing the fighting that's the problem. The best peace plan in the world won't stop them. Only the best plan for war will stop them.

World peace is a utopian ideal, it's great to think about and talk about... like elves and leprichauns... but like so many idealistic ideas, reality... people... get in the way.

Just my opinion.