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Talking With the Planets?


Derek Willis

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Whilst participating in the thread: "Boyd Bushman's Deathbed Interview" I posted a message in which I mentioned Nikola Tesla. Some of the responses to that seem intent on putting me in the "woo camp" with regards to my thoughts on Tesla. I suggest this warrants a new thread, even though I am sure there are other UM threads on Nikola Tesla.

Here is my view on Nikola Tesla: He was not some sort of "wizard" as portrayed in the movie "The Prestige". He was a brilliant scientist who was right on many things, and also wrong on many things. He made predictions that seemed outlandish during his lifetime, but are now - in many cases - proving to be valid. I have no interest in the "Cult of Tesla" that elevates him to an almost supernatural being.

But having read a great deal on Nikola Tesla, I have come to realize that he was extremely adroit at using the media to promote his work. And, in my opinion, it is because of this that he has acquired his ethereal reputation. Take, for example, his 1901 article in Collier's Weekly entitled "Talking With the Planets". It is through quoting this article that most people claim Tesla was "communicating with aliens". But what did Tesla say, and why did he say it? Well, the Editor's note at the top of the article says: "He [Tesla] has received communication, he asserts, from out of the great void of space: a call from the inhabitants of Mars, or Venus, or some other sister planet!". Within the article itself, Tesla is not so definite, and the most he says is: "The feeling is constantly growing on me that I had been the first to hear greetings from one planet to another".

Despite its title, most of "Talking With the Planets" is a discussion of the various electrical technologies Tesla has developed, and those he is working on - and not a great deal about aliens. So why the article? In my opinion, Tesla was simply taking advantage of the media's almost hysterical interest in the "canals" on Mars in order to grab a headline and thereby find another medium to promote his serious work. I am sure that wouldn't be the first or the last time this technique has been used. Edison used the media all the time - for example electrocuting an elephant - to promote his work. It's all part of the "game", but in Tesla's case, some people have come to believe that his more outlandish claims - media hypes, we would call them - are more important than his serious work.

Derek Willis.

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It's all part of the "game", but in Tesla's case, some people have come to believe that his more outlandish claims - media hypes, we would call them - are more important than his serious work.

Derek Willis.

we all know the old saying that "genius and insanity sometimes go hand in hand". ;)

Whilst this is tolerated (or even expected?) by the public when talking about the work of great artists,

being an eccentric personality or having dissenting opinions from the contemporary general mainstream can sometimes cast huge

shadows over the carreer of a scientist.

Suddenly, a lifetime achievement in electrical engineering is put aside in favour of the picture of the "guy who dabbled in death ray cannons". The same fate was shared by Wilhelm Reich, in my opinion. While he made great achievements in sexual psychology in his early years, all that People know of him today (if anything at all) is that he was "that wacko with the orgon chambers"....

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Tesla picked up the signal from a pulsar iirc, and simply didnt understand what he was hearing

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we all know the old saying that "genius and insanity sometimes go hand in hand". ;)

Whilst this is tolerated (or even expected?) by the public when talking about the work of great artists,

being an eccentric personality or having dissenting opinions from the contemporary general mainstream can sometimes cast huge

shadows over the carreer of a scientist.

Suddenly, a lifetime achievement in electrical engineering is put aside in favour of the picture of the "guy who dabbled in death ray cannons". The same fate was shared by Wilhelm Reich, in my opinion. While he made great achievements in sexual psychology in his early years, all that People know of him today (if anything at all) is that he was "that wacko with the orgon chambers"....

I agree, but the discrediting seems to be selective. Some scientists make outrageous pronouncements, but seem not to have their reputation damaged. For example, Lord Kelvin of Thermodynamics fame said in in 1904: "There is nothing new to be discovered in physics; all that remains is more and more precise measurement". A year later, Albert Einstein published the Special Theory of Relativity and turned the world of physics upside down. Yet no-one said that Lord Kelvin was an arrogant old fool!

Derek Willis

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Tesla picked up the signal from a pulsar iirc, and simply didnt understand what he was hearing

That may well be the case. But the point I am making is that many of his statements to the media were deliberately designed to grab headlines for what, I suggest, was part of his policy to generate publicity for his serious work.

Derek Willis

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maybe it doesn't affect personalities that have an already-established standing in their field of expertise so much?

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That may well be the case. But the point I am making is that many of his statements to the media were deliberately designed to grab headlines for what, I suggest, was part of his policy to generate publicity for his serious work.

Derek Willis

Not a lot has changed there, we still do similar today. Ever seen an over-hyped movie? One that in reality was crap when you watched it? Like authors of certain books who promise to reveal ancient Egyptian secrets 'for the first time'...or Tony Robbins and his 'cure any phobia in ten minutes'... without hype its just another book...product.. etc,

edit to add, Besides, newspapers have always been the biggest to hype a story. For ex, Tesla may have said he got a signal from space, and by the time the rags have the story, its "Martians beaming messages to earth"... I mean, everyone wants to read 'those' kinds of stories right? Headlines sell papers

.

Edited by seeder
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maybe it doesn't affect personalities that have an already-established standing in their field of expertise so much?

I think it depends on who you upset and whether you are part of the "establishment". At the end of the 19th century/beginning of the 20th century, Lord kelvin was the "scientific establishment" in the UK - a good friend of prime ministers and monarchs. Perhaps if he had been discredited, that would have rubbed off on people in high places.

Derek Willis

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Not a lot has changed there, we still do similar today. Ever seen an over-hyped movie? One that in reality was crap when you watched it? Like authors of certain books who promise to reveal ancient Egyptian secrets 'for the first time'...or Tony Robbins and his 'cure any phobia in ten minutes'... without hype its just another book...product.. etc,

edit to add, Besides, newspapers have always been the biggest to hype a story. For ex, Tesla may have said he got a signal from space, and by the time the rags have the story, its "Martians beaming messages to earth"... I mean, everyone wants to read 'those' kinds of stories right? Headlines sell papers

.

I agree. But perhaps, as in Tesla's case, the hype is justified provided there is an underlying serious message to impart, i.e. his electrical engineering work.

Derek Willis

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Yes, hello Neptune is that you?

Oh this is Pluto?

*hang up*

i think this is Uranus talking......

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and the most he says is: "The feeling is constantly growing on me that I had been the first to hear greetings from one planet to another".

In my opinion, Tesla was simply taking advantage of the media's almost hysterical interest in the "canals" on Mars in order to grab a headline and thereby find another medium to promote his serious work. I am sure that wouldn't be the first or the last time this technique has been used. Edison used the media all the time - for example electrocuting an elephant - to promote his work. It's all part of the "game", but in Tesla's case, some people have come to believe that his more outlandish claims - media hypes, we would call them - are more important than his serious work.

Derek Willis.

I don't think it's that simple to speak for Tesla . His father shared with people that ever since his son was a youngster realities were closely entwined in Tesla's mind .

What Tesla seen in his imagination and the material world were often difficult for Tesla to separate , both realities were very much real.

I think Tesla was wrongfully mistreated and unappreciated by others who were not the real deal but had money . There was jealously towards him.

I like that he was born during a fierce lightening storm.

Edited by Reann
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Remember that Lord Kelvin marks the point at which classical physics meets modern physics. The paper Einstein wrote in 1905 on special relativity was one of 3 he wrote that year. He won the Nobel prize for another paper that year, not for special relativity. His paper on a quantum effect won him the Nobel prize.

Kelvin's remark isn't that big a deal. It's not like he stated that he started to channel Ramtha, or was able to read minds, or thought it was possible for people to eat emotions, or sunlight, or something really odd. It was a short sighted comment.

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That may well be the case. But the point I am making is that many of his statements to the media were deliberately designed to grab headlines for what, I suggest, was part of his policy to generate publicity for his serious work.

Derek Willis

What proof do we have that he was making anything up? We can all agree that what Tesla "heard" was a pulsar and he had no idea it was a rotating neutron star but you are assuming he made up a story about communicating with aliens. I think he really believed he was in communiication with an alien species and was telling the paper exactly what he thought was the truth. Back at the turn of the century it wasn't quackery to believe that Mars was inhabited, it was pretty much accepted by the gen pop and a pulsar signal sounds artificial.

Edited by Merc14
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What proof do we have that he was making anything up? We can all agree that what Tesla "heard" was a pulsar and he had no idea it was a rotating neutron star but you are assuming he made up a story about communicating with aliens. I think he really believed he was in communiication with an alien species and was telling the paper exactly what he thought was the truth. Back at the turn of the century it wasn't quackery to believe that Mars was inhabited, it was pretty much accepted by the gen pop and a pulsar signal sounds artificial.

I know that back then it wasn't quackery to believe that Mars was inhabited. But what Tesla wrote was: "The feeling is constantly growing on me that I had been the first to hear greetings from one planet to another". Surely if he absolutely believed he had received a communication from Mars he would have been more explicit.

Derek Willis

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Remember that Lord Kelvin marks the point at which classical physics meets modern physics. The paper Einstein wrote in 1905 on special relativity was one of 3 he wrote that year. He won the Nobel prize for another paper that year, not for special relativity. His paper on a quantum effect won him the Nobel prize.

Kelvin's remark isn't that big a deal. It's not like he stated that he started to channel Ramtha, or was able to read minds, or thought it was possible for people to eat emotions, or sunlight, or something really odd. It was a short sighted comment.

I agree with what you are saying. Lord Kelvin was aware that classical physics was struggling, and even wrote that the two most important aspects that needed to be explained were the Michelson-Morley Experiment and black-body radiation: which were soon to be explained by relativity and quantum. The point I was making was that regardless of his sometimes arrogant or even totally wrong pronouncements, his reputation was never trashed. He was simply considered to have been wrong on a few things, but never described as being "mad" or some of the other descriptions later made of Tesla.

Derek Willis

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I think that is pretty explicit for Tesla. Being cautious is a reasonable position to take. We do not know what he detected, but if it was pulsar, then he would only detect a repetitive signal, not something he could determine to be communicating some content.

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I think that is pretty explicit for Tesla. Being cautious is a reasonable position to take. We do not know what he detected, but if it was pulsar, then he would only detect a repetitive signal, not something he could determine to be communicating some content.

That is true: we don't really know what he detected. I don't know this for sure, but apparently his notebooks from Colorado Springs make no mention of him having detected anything untoward. But, assuming he did detect the repetitive signal of a pulsar, if he thought it was a communication from Mars, he must have assumed it was a pretty boring message!

Derek Willis

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Oh, hello Uranus

Can I get through to Neptune please?

Me and Him have unfinished business.

He didn't buy my mothers birthday present!

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I agree with what you are saying. Lord Kelvin was aware that classical physics was struggling, and even wrote that the two most important aspects that needed to be explained were the Michelson-Morley Experiment and black-body radiation: which were soon to be explained by relativity and quantum. The point I was making was that regardless of his sometimes arrogant or even totally wrong pronouncements, his reputation was never trashed. He was simply considered to have been wrong on a few things, but never described as being "mad" or some of the other descriptions later made of Tesla.

Derek Willis

And don''t forget that radiation was only discovered in 1896 and was also a new subject of study at the turn of the century. Einstein won his Nobel prize for QM.

There are lots of examples of odd behavior by scientists. Pauli and his vitamin megadosing comes to mind. I think it all depends on the issues that the person states and how it translates into the scientific consensus. Take Sheldrake. He has proposed a number of issues which he cannot justify. He runs sloppy experiments and the problems are quickly pointed out. Yet, Sheldrake does nothing to address the criticisms. Not to say that there is only upset in science over fringe ideas. Two examples of big upsets were 1) are birds descended from dinosaurs 2) do mammalian brains experience neurogenesis throughout their lifetime. These are recent, loud, and contentious scientific discussions yet all parties walk away intact. Discussions like that are the norm.

I think what sets Tesla apart is that his claims went to fringe notions, the untestable, the unverified.

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And don''t forget that radiation was only discovered in 1896 and was also a new subject of study at the turn of the century. Einstein won his Nobel prize for QM.

There are lots of examples of odd behavior by scientists. Pauli and his vitamin megadosing comes to mind. I think it all depends on the issues that the person states and how it translates into the scientific consensus. Take Sheldrake. He has proposed a number of issues which he cannot justify. He runs sloppy experiments and the problems are quickly pointed out. Yet, Sheldrake does nothing to address the criticisms. Not to say that there is only upset in science over fringe ideas. Two examples of big upsets were 1) are birds descended from dinosaurs 2) do mammalian brains experience neurogenesis throughout their lifetime. These are recent, loud, and contentious scientific discussions yet all parties walk away intact. Discussions like that are the norm.

I think what sets Tesla apart is that his claims went to fringe notions, the untestable, the unverified.

Again, I agree with what you are saying: especially your final sentence. What I am saying is that, initially at least, Tesla was happy to "use" the media to gain interest in his mainstream work by making pronouncements on more speculative notions. However, as he grew older - and in dire need of money - he perhaps started going too far with this technique. By the end of his life he had perhaps become something of a joke, whereby journalists would slip him some money in exchange for an off-the-wall comment. Unfortunately, what serious thoughts he did have later in life were lost in all this. But I still think it was unfair to call him "mad" in a pejorative manner.

Derek Willis

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I know that back then it wasn't quackery to believe that Mars was inhabited. But what Tesla wrote was: "The feeling is constantly growing on me that I had been the first to hear greetings from one planet to another". Surely if he absolutely believed he had received a communication from Mars he would have been more explicit.

Derek Willis

Good point. He was being cautious I guess.

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Planets do generate unique electromagnetic signatures that, captured by radio and converted to sound we can hear, are quite eerie and enchanting. This is the sound of Jupiter as captured by Voyager. [media=]

[/media] Edited by Hammerclaw
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LOL, my feelings are hurt and I want to save face.

You are not the only one to overstate Teslas abilities, I have done so in the past myself to an extent, and was simply curbing your enthusiasm and generous descriptions of his accomplishments.

And there was en element of madness, nobody can deny that. Edison did rip his off badly, and that now has the woo crowd trying to say he was just about to crack every secret there is from QM to God. Aspects of UFOLogy take his claims more than literal and deride his accomplishments by overstating them. Simply put he was a very smart man who had a knack for improving on inventions. He made some amazing breakthroughs and he was recognised for them, when he failed, he paid the price dearly.

Now obviously you started this thread to save face, you surely do not hold any faith in his alien claims? He said he was a Venusian too, not like that is even a remote possibility is it?

Maybe he did use the media to his advantage, not sure, but I'd like to see fringe leave him alone for a while.

As mentioned in the other thread, Thermodynamics is not what a search on Lord Kelvin here, or many other forums, will bring up as the most popular match. His comment on flight is. It was far more widely publicised than the Thermodynamics statement.

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Call him a bless-ed lunatic or mad scientist, never-the-less his genius was firstrate, and we still use many of his inventions today. A list of his patents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_patents

Edited by Hammerclaw
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