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Study finds twist in human evolution


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#46    AmazingAtheist

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 11:16 PM

Apostle on Oct 27 2007, 10:02 PM, said:

This all happened in 6 days, not millions of years.


Well no .. Thats actually wrong but anyway ..

You say in a few earlier posts that you want proof of Evolution,
OKay fair enough, But then you start asking questions about the first cell on Earth and how it got there.
Please note that Evolution does not deal with how life first appeared.

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#47    Leonardo

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 11:19 PM

Apostle,

Could you please provide one good reason why an omnipotent God, who has the power to create and destroy life at whim - indeed, to create universes at whim, had to flood the Earth to eradicate all life except for a mythical Noah, his family and some animals they were commanded to preserve?

Please, no 'God moves in mysterious ways' stuff. Why not just wave his hand or twitch his nose and 'poof'! All life is gone.

The story of the biblical flood is a much-altered retelling of a catastrophic local flood of pre-biblical times.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

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#48    Apostle

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 01:36 AM

Leonardo on Oct 27 2007, 05:19 PM, said:

Apostle,

Could you please provide one good reason why an omnipotent God, who has the power to create and destroy life at whim - indeed, to create universes at whim, had to flood the Earth to eradicate all life except for a mythical Noah, his family and some animals they were commanded to preserve?

Please, no 'God moves in mysterious ways' stuff. Why not just wave his hand or twitch his nose and 'poof'! All life is gone.

The story of the biblical flood is a much-altered retelling of a catastrophic local flood of pre-biblical times.

     In order for people to be saved in that time before Jesus or before the 10 commandments, all they had to do was good- what is right in the eyes of the Lord.  And according to ch 6 verse 5 in Genesis in the Bible- "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."  and in v. 8- "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."  God saw that the earth was corrupt and full of violence; Noah and his family were the only people trying to please God.  God was very grieved at this.  So, he wiped out all humans except for Noah and his family.  Of course, God could have done this in any way he wanted to, but God created the natural laws that govern the earth (such as gravity or thermodynamics) and when he does something on earth he likes to work within those laws.  God created everything, if someone is sick and about to die Christian will often beg and plead God for a miracle, and not to say it isn't a miracle because it is to us, God can do it very easily because he knows what to do, how to tweak it just right so the sickness will dissolve.  To God miracles are a piece of cake, but to us they are amazing and unimaginable.  God is the greatest scientist.  
     Also, a flood drastically changed the earth to the way he wanted it.  Before the flood there was a canopy over the earth- everything lived longer, I believe the continents were all 1 landmass and that there was much more mass to account for the fossil records huge animal population, and everything would be larger.  Volcanoes, earthquakes were both also occurring, and it's interesting to note that if a condensation trigger were present (dust source), computers estimate it would take about 6 weeks to completely precipitate the canopy.  Volcanoes are capable of projecting dust into the upper atmosphere.  So it would take about 6 weeks or 42 days, and how long did it rain- 40 days.  
     I've heard of that in bold, but I'll admit I don't know much about it.  But from what you say if it is much altered is there really any proof it was copied form that?  I'd like to study more if you have any information on it I'd appreciate it.


#49    Apostle

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 01:39 AM

AmazingAtheist on Oct 27 2007, 05:16 PM, said:

Well no .. Thats actually wrong but anyway ..

You say in a few earlier posts that you want proof of Evolution,
OKay fair enough, But then you start asking questions about the first cell on Earth and how it got there.
Please note that Evolution does not deal with how life first appeared.

     How do you know that is wrong?  
     Hmm, it doesn't say anything about the first life?  what does deal with how the first life appeared in support of evolution?



#50    AmazingAtheist

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 01:53 AM

Exatly -- The Study Of Evolution doesn't deal with how life appeared ..

PS -- We know it didn't happen in 6 days .. It's just impossible ..

I'm sure if you did some actual re search you'd soon learn something along the same lines as well.



It is usually
When men are at their most religious
That they behave with the least sense
And the greatest cruelty.

--Ilka Chase


<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...tml#good_to_all" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...tml#good_to_all</a>

Go to link to see the "Original" God Yahweh ..


Theory-- A logically coherent model well supported by evidence.

Evolution isn't just science, It's life. -- Joshua McLean

#51    AmazingAtheist

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 01:55 AM

http://mediatheek.thinkquest.nl/~ll125/en/life-2.htm

Thats a link that might answer some of your questions regarding how life first appeared ..

It is usually
When men are at their most religious
That they behave with the least sense
And the greatest cruelty.

--Ilka Chase


<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...tml#good_to_all" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...tml#good_to_all</a>

Go to link to see the "Original" God Yahweh ..


Theory-- A logically coherent model well supported by evidence.

Evolution isn't just science, It's life. -- Joshua McLean

#52    Apostle

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 02:13 AM

Thanks



#53    Apostle

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 02:17 AM

AmazingAtheist on Oct 27 2007, 07:53 PM, said:

Exatly -- The Study Of Evolution doesn't deal with how life appeared ..

PS -- We know it didn't happen in 6 days .. It's just impossible ..

I'm sure if you did some actual re search you'd soon learn something along the same lines as well.

     I didn't say the Grand Canyon was made in 6 days; I was speaking of the small canyon near Walla Walla, Washington.  This was a modern one so we know it was formed in 6 days.  Of course no one knows exactly how long it took the Grand Canyon to form, but the evidence I presented did away with the millions of years theory.


#54    Starscream

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 02:57 AM

Apostle on Oct 28 2007, 02:17 AM, said:

I didn't say the Grand Canyon was made in 6 days; I was speaking of the small canyon near Walla Walla, Washington.  This was a modern one so we know it was formed in 6 days.  Of course no one knows exactly how long it took the Grand Canyon to form, but the evidence I presented did away with the millions of years theory.

maybe so???
The continents in motion, the red dot indicates the approximate location of the Grand Canyon region
linked-image

Posted Image
Stop Following Me Fur Ball

#55    Leonardo

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 10:12 AM

Apostle on Oct 28 2007, 01:36 AM, said:

In order for people to be saved in that time before Jesus or before the 10 commandments, all they had to do was good- what is right in the eyes of the Lord.  And according to ch 6 verse 5 in Genesis in the Bible- "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."  and in v. 8- "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."  God saw that the earth was corrupt and full of violence; Noah and his family were the only people trying to please God.  God was very grieved at this.  So, he wiped out all humans except for Noah and his family.  Of course, God could have done this in any way he wanted to, but God created the natural laws that govern the earth (such as gravity or thermodynamics) and when he does something on earth he likes to work within those laws.  God created everything, if someone is sick and about to die Christian will often beg and plead God for a miracle, and not to say it isn't a miracle because it is to us, God can do it very easily because he knows what to do, how to tweak it just right so the sickness will dissolve.  To God miracles are a piece of cake, but to us they are amazing and unimaginable.  God is the greatest scientist.  
     Also, a flood drastically changed the earth to the way he wanted it.  Before the flood there was a canopy over the earth- everything lived longer, I believe the continents were all 1 landmass and that there was much more mass to account for the fossil records huge animal population, and everything would be larger.  Volcanoes, earthquakes were both also occurring, and it's interesting to note that if a condensation trigger were present (dust source), computers estimate it would take about 6 weeks to completely precipitate the canopy.  Volcanoes are capable of projecting dust into the upper atmosphere.  So it would take about 6 weeks or 42 days, and how long did it rain- 40 days.  
     I've heard of that in bold, but I'll admit I don't know much about it.  But from what you say if it is much altered is there really any proof it was copied form that?  I'd like to study more if you have any information on it I'd appreciate it.


I made a post here with information about how the 'flood canopy' and the subsequent release of water to create the deluge could not have been possible according to any natural laws. Therefore your argument that God was working 'within natural laws' is baseless. To have such a canopy and to cause it to precipitate in such a manner as to cause this deluge requires setting aside the Laws of Thermodynamics for a start. Of course being divine in origin this 'flood' could have been possible as God can do anything He wants, but why then, as I asked before, a flood?

As for the re-telling of an earlier flood story, with much changing and embellishment to 'fit' the early Hebrew belief system look here.

Of course, conservative Christians have an 'out' with the Gilgamesh (Galgamesh) Epic in either stating it is copied from the Noahic Myth or is a deliberate attempt by Satan/Lucifer to confuse Mankind by getting his 'version' out first! You must judge the evidence provided according to your beliefs I suppose.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#56    Apostle

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 02:16 AM

Leonardo on Oct 28 2007, 05:12 AM, said:

To have such a canopy and to cause it to precipitate in such a manner as to cause this deluge requires setting aside the Laws of Thermodynamics for a start.

     Give me a little time to study up on this.  Sorry, but could you explain to me how it would set aside the laws of thermodynamics.


#57    Leonardo

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 07:47 AM

Apostle on Oct 29 2007, 02:16 AM, said:

Give me a little time to study up on this.  Sorry, but could you explain to me how it would set aside the laws of thermodynamics.


Because the sudden precipitation of this canopy would increase the atmospheric temperature to somewhere in the region of 6,400o centigrade. This is determined by the thermodynamics of the transformation in the state of the water. To avoid Noah, his ark and all the animals on board from being carbonised, not to mention that the precipitation itself would not result in a deluge but all water on the planet would vaporise, God would have had to negate the natural Laws that determine how energy is released when water changes from a high energy vapour into a lower-energy liquid.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#58    Apostle

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Posted 09 November 2007 - 11:48 PM

Leonardo on Oct 28 2007, 04:12 AM, said:

I made a post here with information about how the 'flood canopy' and the subsequent release of water to create the deluge could not have been possible according to any natural laws. Therefore your argument that God was working 'within natural laws' is baseless. To have such a canopy and to cause it to precipitate in such a manner as to cause this deluge requires setting aside the Laws of Thermodynamics for a start. Of course being divine in origin this 'flood' could have been possible as God can do anything He wants, but why then, as I asked before, a flood?

As for the re-telling of an earlier flood story, with much changing and embellishment to 'fit' the early Hebrew belief system look here.

Of course, conservative Christians have an 'out' with the Gilgamesh (Galgamesh) Epic in either stating it is copied from the Noahic Myth or is a deliberate attempt by Satan/Lucifer to confuse Mankind by getting his 'version' out first! You must judge the evidence provided according to your beliefs I suppose.

     I must thank you for making me do research in this area.  I understand now that this theory really would not work, but the water vapor canopy theory is not what is specifically described in the Bible, I only thought that the theory was true.  But, God did accomplish this flood through natural means.  There are other theories on the pre-flood earth, one interesting theory was talking about hypercanes. which can be found here  I still need to do more research on this, but about the Gilgamesh Epic and all other stories talking about a flood; these could only have been written before it if you use the liberal Christians views on when Genesis was written (which is inaccurate and I'll tell you about why they believe it and why it's wrong if you ask); also a few of the similarities weren't similarities, such as Noah didn't complain when he was given the task to build the ark.  So I don't believe the Bible was taken from the Gilgamesh story or any other story, because I believe the Bible is scientifically, historically, and archaeologically sound.  If you have any questions ask, especially since I didn't give a lot of detail, but since I changed my view, thanks again, I wonder if you have different questions.  And if I haven't stated before I believe their is much evidence pointing to a world wide flood.  So again, if you have questions or problems with I've said please tell me because whether you believe it or not, I don't want to believe anything that is not truth.


#59    Yugure

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 09:38 PM

glorybebe on Aug 8 2007, 12:36 PM, said:

In 2000 Leakey found an old Homo erectus complete skull within walking distance of an upper jaw of the Homo habilis, and both dated from the same general time period. That makes it unlikely that one evolved from the other, researchers said.

It's the equivalent of finding that your grandmother and great-grandmother were sisters rather than mother-daughter, said study co-author Fred Spoor, a professor of evolutionary anatomy at the University College in London.


I'm no scientist, but I don't believe that.

You see, if one thing comes from another, there will be something around of that first thing.

Ergo, Your "great-grandmother" and "grandmother" did live at the same time, and could die around the same year. Or heck, your great-grandmother could outlive your grandmother. It's possible.

EDIT: If you wish to speak of God and the great flood do it elsewhere in the Skeptics thread. Kthxbai. grin2.gif

Edited by Yugure, 11 November 2007 - 09:41 PM.





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