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Why did ancient civilization build pyramids?


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#91    dharma warrior

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

View Postcladking, on 08 April 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Until we actually know how they were built then your statements are nothing but assumption
and opinion.  What is so unremarkable about the pyramidal shape that we should dismiss a
6 1/2 million ton pile as existing because it was "buildable"?  Many shapes were probably "buil-
dable" but we mostly just have pyramids.

What is it about the shape that makes it the only thing that might be built?  It could be far easier
to dam a river with 6 1/2 million tons and far more profitable.

Pyramids exist but that doesn't mean they are tombs, temples, or hard to build.
The fact that I stated that "I believe" should be evidence that I was stating an opinion.
The only thing that I find unremarkable about pryamids is the fact that different cultures would employ similar building techniques.
Actually there are many more mounds and cairns than prymids
You have an incredible grasp of the obvious.


#92    cladking

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:15 PM

View Postdharma warrior, on 11 April 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

The fact that I stated that "I believe" should be evidence that I was stating an opinion.
The only thing that I find unremarkable about pryamids is the fact that different cultures would employ similar building techniques.
Actually there are many more mounds and cairns than prymids
You have an incredible grasp of the obvious.

Thank you.

It seems the obvious is the most overlooked aspect of most pyramid building.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#93    wimfloppp

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:55 AM

clobhair   cean said it all.they were built so they could reach the sky.


#94    dekker87

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:14 PM

View PostDragonwind, on 11 April 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

That can still be a very functional direction in the same way massive monuments of today serve a functional value - whether it be economic, cultural or tourist. Think about the Eifell tower - it was built as a temporary structure for an expo. It's still stands today. Perhaps the first world expo was in ancient egypt :w00t: perhaps the pyramids were built to be temporary haha.

Many pyramids are not found to contain actual human remains, so perhaps they were symbolic tombs? That's a lot of effort to build a tomb with no body in it. If people had an aptitude in the past to build gigantic tombs for one leader why does it not continue into modern times? There are not many massive tombs built for important people on the same scale as egypt. We don't see vast tombs for medieval kings and queens. We don't carry out gigantic construction projects to burry contemporary world leaders. The great south american and asian pyramids were primarily temples. However we do honor leadership (politics) and culture in many gigantic expressions. For example Mt Rushmore, statue of liberty, parliamentary triangles, forbidden palace. Also the evolution of monotheism in the middle east after ancient egypt's legacy may have swung building design away from honoring a 'human king' or host of proto 'polytheist' gods towards temples that celebrated 'one god'.

The idea they are solely tombs (no pun intended) doesn't completely rest well with me. I sort of imagine ancient egypt to be like modern day Hong Kong, Dubai, New York etc - highly influenced by trade, wealth, culture, innovation and urbanism. Highly populated and rich. Perhaps their primary function was something more sublime - drama. Real estate drama. Spiritual drama. They are dramatic structures then and now. That creates wealth far beyond what a tomb can acheive. A reflection and expression of the resource rich Nile, it's strategic trade setting, religous ideals and population mass. In many structures today there is an emphasis on 'real estate value': Can a building be utilized profitably from tennants? Can a building attract tourists and attention (or followers/workers)? Is a building going to raise the value of surrounding property? Will it help stimulate economic growth? Whilst ancient egypt doesn't have the complex real estate dynamics of today it did have the basic properties of economic wealth, resource wealth and population wealth. That's something rarely talked about with the great pyramids - their relationship with wealth and population growth.

Today the construction industry is steam rolled by bankers and developers. Building designers and engineers mostly prepare documentation and create a structures aesthetic or integrity. But a buildings purpose almost always comes from the financial/political backer. Beneath the exterior of egyptian mythology, lrage blocks of stone, supernatural motifs and proto religion is basic politics and trade.

thought provoking post.

imagine if some great cataclysm hit the planet and the only thing left in 10,000 years were a few remnants of the 'great' buildings of today....what would the sentient beings of the future make of the statue of liberty...the eiffel tower...the lourve...the brandenburg gate.....etc etc etc - essentially 'useless' buildings with no purpose other than...well decoration and statement of power i suppose....


#95    kmt_sesh

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:12 AM

View PostDragonwind, on 11 April 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

That can still be a very functional direction in the same way massive monuments of today serve a functional value - whether it be economic, cultural or tourist. Think about the Eifell tower - it was built as a temporary structure for an expo. It's still stands today. Perhaps the first world expo was in ancient egypt :w00t: perhaps the pyramids were built to be temporary haha.

Many pyramids are not found to contain actual human remains, so perhaps they were symbolic tombs? That's a lot of effort to build a tomb with no body in it. If people had an aptitude in the past to build gigantic tombs for one leader why does it not continue into modern times? There are not many massive tombs built for important people on the same scale as egypt. We don't see vast tombs for medieval kings and queens. We don't carry out gigantic construction projects to burry contemporary world leaders. The great south american and asian pyramids were primarily temples. However we do honor leadership (politics) and culture in many gigantic expressions. For example Mt Rushmore, statue of liberty, parliamentary triangles, forbidden palace. Also the evolution of monotheism in the middle east after ancient egypt's legacy may have swung building design away from honoring a 'human king' or host of proto 'polytheist' gods towards temples that celebrated 'one god'.

The idea they are solely tombs (no pun intended) doesn't completely rest well with me. I sort of imagine ancient egypt to be like modern day Hong Kong, Dubai, New York etc - highly influenced by trade, wealth, culture, innovation and urbanism. Highly populated and rich. Perhaps their primary function was something more sublime - drama. Real estate drama. Spiritual drama. They are dramatic structures then and now. That creates wealth far beyond what a tomb can acheive. A reflection and expression of the resource rich Nile, it's strategic trade setting, religous ideals and population mass. In many structures today there is an emphasis on 'real estate value': Can a building be utilized profitably from tennants? Can a building attract tourists and attention (or followers/workers)? Is a building going to raise the value of surrounding property? Will it help stimulate economic growth? Whilst ancient egypt doesn't have the complex real estate dynamics of today it did have the basic properties of economic wealth, resource wealth and population wealth. That's something rarely talked about with the great pyramids - their relationship with wealth and population growth.

Today the construction industry is steam rolled by bankers and developers. Building designers and engineers mostly prepare documentation and create a structures aesthetic or integrity. But a buildings purpose almost always comes from the financial/political backer. Beneath the exterior of egyptian mythology, lrage blocks of stone, supernatural motifs and proto religion is basic politics and trade.

I've struggled for years to find a modern (or relatively modern) society or culture to compare to pharaonic Egypt, and have never been successful. I've also tried to do this to show people how the vast majority of modern cultures (i.e., nations, countries, societies, religions) are nothing at all like pharaonic Egypt. The most powerful of modern despots and dictators make a poor comparison to ancient Egyptian kings, and although a number of modern religions were affected and influenced in ancient times by the pharaonic religion, no religion as it exists today is at all that similar to ancient Egypt's.

I drone on like this to emphasize the point that we can rarely use our own societies to understand ancient Egyptian society. No ruler of a modern country is considered by his people or subjects to be as divine and in commune with the divine as ancient Egyptian kings were. We do not build massive tombs for our modern leaders for many reasons, including the fact that we do not see them as directly in commune with God or gods and the fact that most modern rulers belong to religions which would abhor such costly and extravagant monuments.

Understanding an ancient Egyptian pyramid as a tomb is more complicated than one might think. It requires us to divorce ourselves from our own ideas and attitudes and to come at the situation with the mind of an ancient Egyptian, in so far as such is possible (it is, to a point). Simply put, an Egyptian pyramid was a hell of a lot more than just a structure in which to stick a dead body. The religious and cultural implications behind Egyptian pyramids were significantly more sophisticated than our modern mausoleums and crypts. The ancient Egyptians believed that for the world to continue and for order and stability to flourish, the king had to be properly interred and, moreover, serviced and tended to beyond the death of his physical body. This was as true for Khufu as it was for the great pharaohs buried in their elaborate cliff-cut tombs a thousand years later in the New Kingdom.

The absence of human remains doesn't really mean anything, aside from the fact that tomb robbers were highly successful in their activities. Few pharaonic tombs, royal or private, have been found intact by archaeologists.

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#96    AlnilamPhiSiriusly

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:47 PM

View Postwimfloppp, on 12 April 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

clobhair   cean said it all.they were built so they could reach the sky.


SACRED KNOWLEDGE - SOLVING ANCIENT MYSTERIES PART 4.
'Coral Castle is a lime stone monument that sits in "Homestead" Florida. The builder of Coral Castle "Edward Leedskalnin" claimed to know the secrets of the ancient builders and he proved it by building coral castle.

The secret is magnetism and anti-gravity'.  



'He built a magnetic device to nullify or heavily reduce the weight of those enormous stones, so he could easily set them into place, if not levitate them. He left clues for us, and we can also find these same clues / symbology in the Norman Hall (Grand Masonic Lodge) in Philadelphia.

The secrets of magnetism are encoded in the artwork designs. The freemasons have kept these secrets forever, but the times of secrecy are now over. The global awakening has begun and we need to rewrite our history books. They're not telling the truth. Wake to this fact'


#97    cladking

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 13 April 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

I've struggled for years to find a modern (or relatively modern) society or culture to compare to pharaonic Egypt, and have never been successful. I've also tried to do this to show people how the vast majority of modern cultures (i.e., nations, countries, societies, religions) are nothing at all like pharaonic Egypt. The most powerful of modern despots and dictators make a poor comparison to ancient Egyptian kings, and although a number of modern religions were affected and influenced in ancient times by the pharaonic religion, no religion as it exists today is at all that similar to ancient Egypt's.

I drone on like this to emphasize the point that we can rarely use our own societies to understand ancient Egyptian society. No ruler of a modern country is considered by his people or subjects to be as divine and in commune with the divine as ancient Egyptian kings were. We do not build massive tombs for our modern leaders for many reasons, including the fact that we do not see them as directly in commune with God or gods and the fact that most modern rulers belong to religions which would abhor such costly and extravagant monuments.

Understanding an ancient Egyptian pyramid as a tomb is more complicated than one might think. It requires us to divorce ourselves from our own ideas and attitudes and to come at the situation with the mind of an ancient Egyptian, in so far as such is possible (it is, to a point). Simply put, an Egyptian pyramid was a hell of a lot more than just a structure in which to stick a dead body. The religious and cultural implications behind Egyptian pyramids were significantly more sophisticated than our modern mausoleums and crypts. The ancient Egyptians believed that for the world to continue and for order and stability to flourish, the king had to be properly interred and, moreover, serviced and tended to beyond the death of his physical body. This was as true for Khufu as it was for the great pharaohs buried in their elaborate cliff-cut tombs a thousand years later in the New Kingdom.

The absence of human remains doesn't really mean anything, aside from the fact that tomb robbers were highly successful in their activities. Few pharaonic tombs, royal or private, have been found intact by archaeologists.

Our current belief is we understand the ancient Egyptians.  There is little enough fact and
enough interpretation underlying this belief that it might be in error.  This is why so many people
reject the current belief.

It seems to me that if two Egyptologists can't agree on such basic things as the meaning of the
"eye of horus" and the other phrases used in that era that anything we believe about the ancients
is necessarily tentative.  There are too many mysteries to understand them in their own terms.  Of
course trying to understand them in our terms isn't productive as is obvious.  No matter how many
people believe the great pyramids are tombs the fact remains that only circumstantial evidence for
it exists. It can be interpreted to be substantial circumstantial evidence but it's still only circunstantial.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#98    Quaentum

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostAlnilamPhiSiriusly, on 17 April 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:



SACRED KNOWLEDGE - SOLVING ANCIENT MYSTERIES PART 4.
'Coral Castle is a lime stone monument that sits in "Homestead" Florida. The builder of Coral Castle "Edward Leedskalnin" claimed to know the secrets of the ancient builders and he proved it by building coral castle.

The secret is magnetism and anti-gravity'.  



'He built a magnetic device to nullify or heavily reduce the weight of those enormous stones, so he could easily set them into place, if not levitate them. He left clues for us, and we can also find these same clues / symbology in the Norman Hall (Grand Masonic Lodge) in Philadelphia.

The secrets of magnetism are encoded in the artwork designs. The freemasons have kept these secrets forever, but the times of secrecy are now over. The global awakening has begun and we need to rewrite our history books. They're not telling the truth. Wake to this fact'

Here we see him using the anti-gravity device known as pulleys to levitate the block into place

Posted Image

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#99    The_Spartan

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 10:48 AM

I still dont understand.
There is clear evidences that the AE started their Pyramid Building with Mastabas.
When the AE stacked Mastabas on top of each other as with the Step Pyramid of Djoser, they got a proto-Pyramid.
Trying to get more Pyramidical resulted in the odd looking Bent Pyramid.
Then came the Red Pyramid/North pyramid of Dahshur, by which time the AE had pefected the full pyramidical Shape.
Then came the culmination with the Great Pyramids of Giza and elsewhere.

So, were the aliens or the Atlanteans involved in the construction of the Mastabas, The Step Pyramid or the Bent Pyramid or the Red Pyramid or anything pyramidical in shape???

The AEs experimented and progressed with the pyramidical shape.
As to why they built it,  wasting their time, slaving to build huge monuments to their kings is the result (my opinion) of something of a God-King Adoration, which the royalty and the priesthood would have naturally exploited to the hilt.

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#100    Harte

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:27 PM

View PostAlnilamPhiSiriusly, on 17 April 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

SACRED KNOWLEDGE - SOLVING ANCIENT MYSTERIES PART 4.
'Coral Castle is a lime stone monument that sits in "Homestead" Florida. The builder of Coral Castle "Edward Leedskalnin" claimed to know the secrets of the ancient builders and he proved it by building coral castle.

The secret is magnetism and anti-gravity'.  
'He built a magnetic device to nullify or heavily reduce the weight of those enormous stones, so he could easily set them into place, if not levitate them.

Well, yes, electromagnetism and antigravity.

He used an electric winch or counter the effects of gravity.

The winch used is shown in many of his pics.

Not exactly "sacred knowledge."

Harte

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#101    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 01:28 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 18 April 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

I still dont understand.
There is clear evidences that the AE started their Pyramid Building with Mastabas.
When the AE stacked Mastabas on top of each other as with the Step Pyramid of Djoser, they got a proto-Pyramid.
Trying to get more Pyramidical resulted in the odd looking Bent Pyramid.
Then came the Red Pyramid/North pyramid of Dahshur, by which time the AE had pefected the full pyramidical Shape.
Then came the culmination with the Great Pyramids of Giza and elsewhere.

So, were the aliens or the Atlanteans involved in the construction of the Mastabas, The Step Pyramid or the Bent Pyramid or the Red Pyramid or anything pyramidical in shape???

The AEs experimented and progressed with the pyramidical shape.
As to why they built it,  wasting their time, slaving to build huge monuments to their kings is the result (my opinion) of something of a God-King Adoration, which the royalty and the priesthood would have naturally exploited to the hilt.
You precisely nailed this one. There just is no rational answer from the alternaviks to fit this obvious evolution into their theories. Though I'm sure there will soon enough be some sort of explanation that will have us :rofl:


#102    AlnilamPhiSiriusly

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostHarte, on 18 April 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Well, yes, electromagnetism and antigravity.

He used an electric winch or counter the effects of gravity.

The winch used is shown in many of his pics.

Not exactly "sacred knowledge."

Harte
Not exactly....

Attached File  CORAL CASTLE TRIPOD.jpg   89.14K   11 downloads

Attached File  CORAL CASTLE.jpg   153.01K   13 downloads


#103    third_eye

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:33 PM

View PostAlnilamPhiSiriusly, on 18 April 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Not exactly....

[attachment=snip]

[attachment=snip]

Why not demonstrate and video evidence ?
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#104    Harte

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:16 PM

View PostAlnilamPhiSiriusly, on 18 April 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:


Electric winch shown at top of tripod, so

Exactly.

Harte

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#105    cladking

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 18 April 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

You precisely nailed this one. There just is no rational answer from the alternaviks to fit this obvious evolution into their theories. Though I'm sure there will soon enough be some sort of explanation that will have us :rofl:

I suppose the fact that they didn't build their first structures of concrete and steel could
be interpreted to mean they built tombs with ramps but there are other interpretations.  They
learned how to build large stone structures with steep sides by building mastaba tombs.  Then
they learned how to stack them taller into step pyramids but this doesn't mean step pyramids
are tombs.  It merely means that this is the technology they had available.

The difference between this viewpoint and yours is that this viewpoint is obviously and demon-
strably correct while yours is founded on an assumption.  This isn't to say you can't be right,
merely that it's still an assumption. Take away the assumption and you've got a technology
that is evolving as they continued to build mastaba tombs.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




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