Is the U.S. "The Great Satan"?

[sear]

I heard today a comment about the Reagan administration that's got me thinking.

The comment was that Reagan realized one of the ways to help the Soviet Union go bankrupt was to limit their revenues.

They even had a hard time buying grain to feed their people, because they had no cash. They could sell oil (there's lots of it in the Soviet Union).

But Reagan didn't want that. He wanted them to go broke. So what did this commenter allege?

He alleged that, because the Soviets were in Afghanistan, it made Middle Easterners, particularly Arabs and Muslims angry at the Soviets.

The allegation is, Reagan got OPEC to saturate the market with relatively cheap oil. That way, they'd sell a lot of oil, the Soviets couldn't sell much, and they'd go bankrupt faster.

a) Do you believe this allegation is true?

If it's true, do you think it was the right thing for the U.S. to do? Triangulate OPEC against the Soviets, and benefit from lots of cheap oil too?

c) When the U.S. pulls something like this that U.S. leaders at the time seem to think is in the best interests of the U.S., doesn't it often end up working to our long term benefit?

For example, might becoming accustomed to abundant cheap energy in these earlier decades, be our sowing the seeds of our own woes?

Perhaps we wouldn't miss SUV's so much, if we hadn't gotten into that bad habit in the first place.

And what about the other things the U.S. does? We've now overthrown leaders from both Iraq, and Iran. We've gotten into similar mischief in Central and South America.

What other nation currently on Earth has a track record as tainted as ours?

Is the U.S. The Great Satan?

And if so, what should we do? Who should we vote for this November?

[AROCES]

The Soviet Union folded because the Communist system failed.

China saw it and had no choice but concede to capitalism to not have the same faith as the USSR.

Edited June 6, 2008 by AROCES

[sear]

"... to not have the same faith as the USSR." AROCES

"Faith"?

Do you mean, "fate"?

"The Soviet Union folded because the Communist system failed." AROCES

I agree. It was teetering on the precipice. But that doesn't mean Uncle Sam didn't give it a little push.

[ninjadude]

Reagan couldn't figure his way out of a paper bag. His "advisors" did all that. That's why his buddies illegally sold arms to the contras.

[jaylemurph]

No, no, no. Everyone knows that Stanley Laurel, of Laurel and Hardy fame, is the Great Stan.

Great Satan, you say?

Oh. Never Mind.

--JayleLatella

[stevewinn]

i wouldn't say the US is the great Satan, because global politics is all about one-upmanship, staying that one step a head, but, when you play this game you have to remember the golden rule, "Do not do unto others what you would not want them do unto you." and has with most things it more than often comes true with time.

[War Eagle]

Reagan couldn't figure his way out of a paper bag. His "advisors" did all that. That's why his buddies illegally sold arms to the contras.

and he did his Oscar^® nominated best acting performances as a politician.

note the little ® for added effect to the post...

[sear]

"remember the golden rule, "Do not do unto others what you would not want them do unto you."" steve

My memory must be slipping.

"Reagan couldn't figure his way out of a paper bag. His "advisors" did all that." nin

I suspect you're probably right that Reagan didn't dream that up, independent of expert consultation.

Yet the policy implemented was Reagan administration policy. As our current President has observed, the President is "the decider".

[Mekorig]

USA the Great Satan?

No, the USA actions as a nation are not enough bad to get them that moniker, but lets say that the USA have done enough to gain a horn or two, maybe a leathery wing too...

[Bella-Angelique]

Is the U.S. The Great Satan?

No. It is not The Great Satan.

That is just fascist hate speech.

[Korbus]

Hmm. I wouldnt say Great Satan, but we have definitely been responsible, either directly or indirectly, for enormous atrocities around the world. We cannot simply continue pointing the finger at others. We have to look into the mirror sometimes as well. Sometimes your past misdeeds do come back to haunt you.

[Stardrive]

I heard today a comment about the Reagan administration that's got me thinking.

The comment was that Reagan realized one of the ways to help the Soviet Union go bankrupt was to limit their revenues.

They even had a hard time buying grain to feed their people, because they had no cash. They could sell oil (there's lots of it in the Soviet Union).

But Reagan didn't want that. He wanted them to go broke. So what did this commenter allege?

He alleged that, because the Soviets were in Afghanistan, it made Middle Easterners, particularly Arabs and Muslims angry at the Soviets.

The allegation is, Reagan got OPEC to saturate the market with relatively cheap oil. That way, they'd sell a lot of oil, the Soviets couldn't sell much, and they'd go bankrupt faster.

a) Do you believe this allegation is true?

If it's true, do you think it was the right thing for the U.S. to do? Triangulate OPEC against the Soviets, and benefit from lots of cheap oil too?

c) When the U.S. pulls something like this that U.S. leaders at the time seem to think is in the best interests of the U.S., doesn't it often end up working to our long term benefit?

For example, might becoming accustomed to abundant cheap energy in these earlier decades, be our sowing the seeds of our own woes?

Perhaps we wouldn't miss SUV's so much, if we hadn't gotten into that bad habit in the first place.

And what about the other things the U.S. does? We've now overthrown leaders from both Iraq, and Iran. We've gotten into similar mischief in Central and South America.

What other nation currently on Earth has a track record as tainted as ours?

Is the U.S. The Great Satan?

And if so, what should we do? Who should we vote for this November?

I don’t have a thing to back up what I’ve heard on this subject so take my post here with a grain of salt. Because of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Reagan and the Saudis cooked up a plan to bankrupt the Soviet Union. The plan was that the Saudis would up production to drive the price of crude down, thus hyper-stimulating the US economy leaving the Soviet Union isolated from the global market with no one to buy it’s oil [because it cost more for them to produce oil than it does the Saudis due to more difficulty in accessibility] causing it to free-fall into the economic abyss of bankruptcy.

It’s been pointed out on here before, the price of fuel in US is lower than most other places in the world and I believe it has been artificially low for years now.

At the time when the Soviet Union broke up I thought it was a great thing. Something I thought I’d never see happen in my lifetime. But it happened. Now the balance of power in the world is gone and now we are in Afghanistan [albeit under different circumstances].

Are we the great satan? I don’t think so myself but everyone seems to need a boogieman to control the masses through fear. I will give an answer to the questions you asked sear when I get home tonight (I hope)

[Dr. D]

I heard today a comment about the Reagan administration that's got me thinking.

The comment was that Reagan realized one of the ways to help the Soviet Union go bankrupt was to limit their revenues.

They even had a hard time buying grain to feed their people, because they had no cash. They could sell oil (there's lots of it in the Soviet Union).

But Reagan didn't want that. He wanted them to go broke. So what did this commenter allege?

He alleged that, because the Soviets were in Afghanistan, it made Middle Easterners, particularly Arabs and Muslims angry at the Soviets.

The allegation is, Reagan got OPEC to saturate the market with relatively cheap oil. That way, they'd sell a lot of oil, the Soviets couldn't sell much, and they'd go bankrupt faster.

a) Do you believe this allegation is true?

If it's true, do you think it was the right thing for the U.S. to do? Triangulate OPEC against the Soviets, and benefit from lots of cheap oil too?

c) When the U.S. pulls something like this that U.S. leaders at the time seem to think is in the best interests of the U.S., doesn't it often end up working to our long term benefit?

For example, might becoming accustomed to abundant cheap energy in these earlier decades, be our sowing the seeds of our own woes?

Perhaps we wouldn't miss SUV's so much, if we hadn't gotten into that bad habit in the first place.

And what about the other things the U.S. does? We've now overthrown leaders from both Iraq, and Iran. We've gotten into similar mischief in Central and South America.

What other nation currently on Earth has a track record as tainted as ours?

Is the U.S. The Great Satan?

And if so, what should we do? Who should we vote for this November?

America? No. But it's president is a shoo-in.

[Radian]

Is USA great Satan?

I suppose it's possible we are.

[The Silver Thong]

I don't believe in Satan so what does that mean ?

[truthorder]

The term "Great Satan" was penned by Islamic fundamentalists.

To me, Islamic fundamentalists calling Satan "Great" is right on track.

[FurthurBB]

I heard today a comment about the Reagan administration that's got me thinking.

The comment was that Reagan realized one of the ways to help the Soviet Union go bankrupt was to limit their revenues.

They even had a hard time buying grain to feed their people, because they had no cash. They could sell oil (there's lots of it in the Soviet Union).

But Reagan didn't want that. He wanted them to go broke. So what did this commenter allege?

He alleged that, because the Soviets were in Afghanistan, it made Middle Easterners, particularly Arabs and Muslims angry at the Soviets.

The allegation is, Reagan got OPEC to saturate the market with relatively cheap oil. That way, they'd sell a lot of oil, the Soviets couldn't sell much, and they'd go bankrupt faster.

a) Do you believe this allegation is true?

If it's true, do you think it was the right thing for the U.S. to do? Triangulate OPEC against the Soviets, and benefit from lots of cheap oil too?

c) When the U.S. pulls something like this that U.S. leaders at the time seem to think is in the best interests of the U.S., doesn't it often end up working to our long term benefit?

For example, might becoming accustomed to abundant cheap energy in these earlier decades, be our sowing the seeds of our own woes?

Perhaps we wouldn't miss SUV's so much, if we hadn't gotten into that bad habit in the first place.

And what about the other things the U.S. does? We've now overthrown leaders from both Iraq, and Iran. We've gotten into similar mischief in Central and South America.

What other nation currently on Earth has a track record as tainted as ours?

Is the U.S. The Great Satan?

And if so, what should we do? Who should we vote for this November?

No, the US is not "the Great Satan" LOL! We are a funny people, even when we are going off on ourselves we are megalomaniacs. The US is a country that through our great constitution, ideas about freedom and equality, and abundant resourves has grown to be a great force in the world. Other than that, we are just a country like any other country. We are no worse and no better than any other country in our international policy. We as a country always do what our leaders think is in our best interest. If someone else benefits along the way that is an added benefit. Since we have a great military, it has happened once or twice that our best interest was also the best interest of the world and we came out smelling like roses even when we committed one of the most horrendous acts of terror known to man. Sometimes we seems like really evil people because what seemed like our best interest at the time turned out to be very bad for us and the world. We are not alone in either of these things, there is actually one country that comes to my mind everytime I think about this situation and that is France. I often think that is where the hatred comes from, we see in each other that which we hate in ourselves. JMO of course.

[FurthurBB]

No. It is not The Great Satan.

That is just fascist hate speech.

Fascist hate speech?? I laughed hot tea out my nose and onto my keyboard. You guys are too funny.

[FurthurBB]

The term "Great Satan" was penned by Islamic fundamentalists.

To me, Islamic fundamentalists calling Satan "Great" is right on track.

Indeed, all religious fundamentalism follows evil instead of good so metaphorically I can see your point.

[ESPeter]

Indeed, all religious fundamentalism follows evil instead of good so metaphorically I can see your point.

Yes, unfortunately most all world religions have a few lambs who have strayed too far and lost their way. Muslims, Christians, Jews, even a stray Buddhist here and there.

[Defined by Rangers]

Absolutely not.

Political classes of almost all countries are the 'great satans', whether they be party political or religious based. America is a cracking place full of great people, although I admit one or two leave something to be desired. But which country cannot say the same?

[Stalker]

Does it really matter whether or not the US really is the "Great Satan" or not?

The fact is, a good percentage of the rest of the world sees us as such. To them, we are, the truth of the matter be damned. If we do nothing to change their perception of us, well, I don't think we'll be seeing the end of hatred and violence towards us anytime soon...

[sear]

"We are no worse and no better than any other country in our international policy." FBB

Interesting choice of words FBB.

Perhaps our policy may not be.

But our conduct, the things we've done, I'm not sure we're so secure about that.

For example:

China is running roughshod over Tibet.

China is effectively simply annexing it. Conquering might be a more accurate term.

In any case, that's bad. China shouldn't do that.

But U.S. President Bush isn't in a very strong position to tell China:

- don't do that -

Why not?

Because so much of what is now sovereign U.S. territory was simply stolen wholesale from the aboriginal Americans that inhabited it before us.

It's too hypocritical of us to do that. So we stand by while Tibet is slowly absorbed by China.

And look at the terrible mischief we've gotten into in Central & South America. How many regimes did we change there?

We've already toppled the regimes in both Iraq, and Iran.

Iraq we did just a few years ago. Iran we did back after WWII, when the CIA overthrew Mossadegh, and installed the Shah.

Do you really think Denmark and Greece have records like that?

[Unknown Rebel]

I think the Soviet Union had reached its last days to be fair. Although i would'nt put it passed either state to try and put the other out of business so to speak. Communism in theory appears quite sound, although it has never been carried out perfectly to plan and as has happened in most, if not all historical and current cases there will always be a Dictator present. Greed is a powerful force, not even Castro could resist its grab, this is why it is doomed to fail.

[jaylemurph]

QUOTE (Геро

@ Jun 10 2008, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the Soviet Union had reached its last days to be fair. Although i would'nt put it passed either state to try and put the other out of business so to speak. Communism in theory appears quite sound, although it has never been carried out perfectly to plan and as has happened in most, if not all historical and current cases there will always be a Dictator present. Greed is a powerful force, not even Castro could resist its grab, this is why it is doomed to fail.

I'm rather disappointed to hear that from a Hero of the Soviet Union!

--Jaylemurph