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The Strange Career of Gordon Novel


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#76    hacktorp

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:43 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 20 November 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

LOL.

You miss what you lot call the skeptics that much that you need to see some in every thread? Most of the subjects have already been covered, reverse engineering, and what sort of a response for "The Quick Test For Disinformation" do you expect? Was that even serious? It seems rather childish to me.
I thought it would be nice to let McGuffin have a thread and discuss something without being challenged by half the posters, he's not a bad bloke, he just is passionate about different things to some of us. But if you really want the skeptics to have a look at this stuff, we can accomodate if you like. Will we start with reverse engineering, or the Solar Warden project? Seeming as you want to break up the serenity, I'll let you choose ;)
I have dropped into this thread once or twice along the way, but was interested in hearing McGuffins side of things from start to finish. But if you insist, it does not have to be that way. Hey, why don't you challenge James Oberg personally, I am sure that will liven up the thread for you.

Tell us what you know of Solar Warden, if you would.  I'm asking, not baiting...but you can call it whatever you like.

ETA:  You have 15 minutes to demonstrate some useful knowledge beyond "jack squat"

Edited by hacktorp, 21 November 2012 - 12:15 AM.


#77    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:59 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 20 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Tell us what you know of Solar Warden, if you would.  I'm asking, not baiting...but you can call it whatever you like.

ETA:  You have 15 minutes to demonstrate some useful knowledge beyond "jack squat"

Apart from the Novell information that McGuffin has offered, I have read what Michael Salla has had to say here - LINK

Quote

Michael Salla provides us with some background on Solar Warden, the secret space fleet. I’ll be publishing more from him on the subject later.
The Navy itself, understandably, does not come right out and say “We are  in charge of Solar Warden.” The closest I have come so far to such an  admission are two cryptic passages in a Navy press release that says  that Tenth Fleet is in charge of “space planning and operations” and  “missions across the cyber, electromagnetic and space domains.” (1)
Salla gives his opinion that the Navy has been in control of the space fleet for some time – not that it recently wrested control from Majestic-12, as I imagined.
He bases this on the opinions of British hacker Gary McKinnon and of an unnamed Naval source, which I believe, based on other Salla articles, is the Pickering Brother’s Deep Throat informant, “Source A.”

His counts are posted in quite a few places om the net - here and here are some examples.

It gets small mentions at places like the Project Camelot site, but the above repeated is more in depth.

Michael Salla claims that a nephew of a friend of his who is apparently a a professional hiker was deep in the Utah desert, 25 miles from the nearest road in a high inaccessible area when suddenly, he saw a arrowhead-shaped craft 600 feet long appear and hover


Links have been attributed to the Reagan administration, LINK - Reagan records & Space Command antigravity fleet

Quote

On April 13, the National Archive Records Administration made available almost 250,000 pages of documents from President Reagan's administration. It will take several months for researchers to read through the documents. The released material may yield insight into a curious comment found in President Reagan's Diary. The entry for Tuesday, June 11, 1985 (page 334) reads:


Lunch with 5 top space scientist. It was fascinating. Space truly is the last frontier and some of the developments there in astronomy etc. are like science fiction, except they are real. I learned that our shuttle capacity is such that we could orbit 300 people.


And of course, the DoD claim

Quote

One alleged whistle-blower described described Solar Warden as such: ”There were, as of 2005, eight ships, an equivalent to aircraft carriers and forty-three “protectors,” which are space planes
One was lost recently to an accident in Mars’ orbit while it was attempting to re-supply the multinational colony within Mars. This base was established in 1964 by American and Soviet teamwork.”
it is said that part of “Solar Warden’s” agenda was protecting Earth from any hostile aliens.
UFO obsessed hacker Gary McKinnon from the UK claimed to have found allusions to “Solar Warden” while snooping through NASA files. These files mention “non-terrestrial officers”, amongst other things.
Now a reader of this publication and a respected UFO researcher from the UK, Mr Darren Perks, claims to have received the following email from the DoD (under the freedom of information act) on the matter:
“About an hour ago I spoke to a NASA rep who confirmed this was their
program and that it was terminated by the President. He also informed
me that it was not a joint program with the DoD. The NASA rep informed
me that you should be directed to the Johnson Space Center FOIA Manager.
I have ran your request through one of our space-related directorates
and I’m waiting on one other division with the Command to respond back
to me.
I will contact you once I have a response from the other division.
Did NASA refer you to us?”

With the reality of “Solar Warden” allegedly confirmed further credibility will be given to the accounts of individuals such as Laura Eisenhower, great-granddaughter of Ike and writer for this publications, who speak of knowledge of a colony on Mars and other secret NASA projects.


LINK



Now can you help me with some questions. What up with the 15 minute time limit? And does this satisfy your requirement for more than "Jack Squat"?


I have left my personal opinion out of this, as you have not requested it, and even with the mention of that crook Gary McKinnon and I think it is fairly obvious.

Edited by psyche101, 21 November 2012 - 01:01 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#78    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:56 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 21 November 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Apart from the Novell information that McGuffin has offered, I have read what Michael Salla has had to say here.

Now can you help me with some questions. What up with the 15 minute time limit? And does this satisfy your requirement for more than "Jack Squat"?


I have left my personal opinion out of this, as you have not requested it, and even with the mention of that crook Gary McKinnon and I think it is fairly obvious.



Richard Dolan gave a talk on the secret space program which referred to many of these things as well, although I don't think he called it Solar Warden.  He uses the term "Breakaway Civilization" to refer to those who have access to this advanced technology, which gives them a different culture and worldview from those who do not.  




#79    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:06 PM

View Posthacktorp, on 20 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Tell us what you know of Solar Warden, if you would.  I'm asking, not baiting...but you can call it whatever you like.

ETA:  You have 15 minutes to demonstrate some useful knowledge beyond "jack squat"

There's an article about it here, which mentions Ben Rich and some others who described advanced ET technology and how Reagan's Star Wars program really boosted the secret space program.

Some of the speculation here gets a little loopy, but I do not doubt that some type of very advanced space program does exist outside of NASA.  Historically speaking, it is true that civilizations have always borrowed technology and ideas from each other rather than always having to reinvent the wheel on their own.

Many of the "modern" developments we had in the West, for example, were originally borrowed from China.

http://www.google.co...x_2kjLKrgUGnS_w


#80    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

I don't think it's any accident that even the advanced technology that has been publicly disclosed looks more and more UFO-like.  LOL

Posted Image

Of course, it's been a long time since we've seen any pictures of the astronauts from the military program.  This one is from the 1960s.

Posted Image

http://www.earthsban...den-Space-Fleet

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 21 November 2012 - 03:21 PM.


#81    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

Here's a picture of something that may be one of these "high-flyers".  

Posted Image

http://www.google.co...,r:20,s:0,i:154


#82    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

And when it comes to UFOs that may be part of the secret space program, no one ever had better pictures than the late-Jeff Challender.




#83    hacktorp

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:34 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 21 November 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:


Now can you help me with some questions. What up with the 15 minute time limit? And does this satisfy your requirement for more than "Jack Squat"?

I have left my personal opinion out of this, as you have not requested it, and even with the mention of that crook Gary McKinnon and I think it is fairly obvious.

I asked about what you knew of Solar Warden only because you had mentioned it earlier as a topic you were prepared to discuss.  I thought you might have some insight beyond what is easily found online.  Thank you for the links, though.

As for the 15 minute thing, I was inspired by a post you had made in another thread where you gave someone 15 minutes to prove that "anything is possible".  I thought it was a great idea at the time, but looking back, it just seems rather snotty now.  If that's what you thought too, I guess we agree.  Hey...did we just prove anything IS possible?

The one portion of your post that sticks out to me is your reference to "that crook Gary McKinnon".  You give such an outsized and biased decoration to his name while, in his own country, and yours,  he is not seen that way at all.  Sort of like other infamous appellations as "The Lone Nut Oswald", or "The Coward Robert Ford", or "911 Mastermind Mohammad Atta", it appears designed to mislead and condition the reader into a perception which may, in fact, be false.  An open, truth-seeking  mind would be far less prejudiced, given the circumstances.  Don't you think?


#84    psyche101

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

View Posthacktorp, on 21 November 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I asked about what you knew of Solar Warden only because you had mentioned it earlier as a topic you were prepared to discuss.  I thought you might have some insight beyond what is easily found online.  Thank you for the links, though.

It does not exist, how much insight does one expect from that? Due to that very fact, the links are the insight. It simply is impossible for aircraft carriers to be cruising the atmosphere unannounced to the public. And the claims is that quite a few are up there. That is nonsense and I do have insight into that area by way of a love of astronomy and a half decent telescope.

View Posthacktorp, on 21 November 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

As for the 15 minute thing, I was inspired by a post you had made in another thread where you gave someone 15 minutes to prove that "anything is possible".  I thought it was a great idea at the time, but looking back, it just seems rather snotty now.  If that's what you thought too, I guess we agree.  Hey...did we just prove anything IS possible?

I thought that might be your motivation, however, when did I ever claim that nothing is impossible in my post? It does not seem snotty, it seems a bit stupid when there is no application for the challenge. In that respect I guess it could be regarded as snotty as you did not really have any reason other than baiting me did you?
No, I cannot see how you have proven anything is possible. I did not bother with your 15 minute time limit is you notice the time stamps as it did not apply to anything more than some self serving sense of accomplishment for yourself in "getting back at a skeptic" It's rather childish IMHO. You need to have a reason to state such a challenge, but you didn't. Yet I did.

Are you saying anyTHING is possible?

View Posthacktorp, on 21 November 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

The one portion of your post that sticks out to me is your reference to "that crook Gary McKinnon".  You give such an outsized and biased decoration to his name while, in his own country, and yours,  he is not seen that way at all.  Sort of like other infamous appellations as "The Lone Nut Oswald", or "The Coward Robert Ford", or "911 Mastermind Mohammad Atta", it appears designed to mislead and condition the reader into a perception which may, in fact, be false.  An open, truth-seeking  mind would be far less prejudiced, given the circumstances.  Don't you think?

That was all that you picked up? That is a shame. I expected more for such an astute poster. :rolleyes:

I simply do not believe you. Because a number of ignorant people on Australia are fooled by his BS, that does not constitute "The Country", just a small and embarrassingly uninformed portion of the population.
Please do not bring up 911. I find it distressing the way some complete idiots refuse the outright confession from some maniacs that find it just fine to behead your daughter to try to implicate the Government they are responsible for voting in some twisted game to feel intellectual. That is why I mostly avoid the CT section of this site. If you want to discuss that idiocy further I suggest you look up that section of the forum. That is after all, why it exists.
An "open mind" certainly will give McKinnon the benefit of the doubt as he is peddling dreams, and that is something people want to buy. These are the same "open minds" that still believe Bob Lazar. Informed people do not have to give the benefit of the doubt, there is enough information to see that McKinnon is lying through his teeth, and was able to convince the "open minded" to believe his steaming pile of "information". The truth is blatant to anyone with any reasonable IT experience. In any case, he is not Gordon Novell is he. What the hell did you want to discuss? Anything or did you just want some skeptics around and thought you might try to bait some in?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#85    hacktorp

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:28 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 21 November 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

What the hell did you want to discuss? Anything or did you just want some skeptics around and thought you might try to bait some in?

I only wanted to invite the sharing of useful information, pro or con, which may shed light on this so-called Solar Warden program, and which has been intriguingly referenced by Novel and others.  You don't believe it, and I accept that.

I never made mention of skeptics, btw...I believe I said "robo-debunkerbots" which aren't the same thing.  Sorry if your ears were feeling a bit warm.

As for Gordon Novel, while he is clearly a fascinating and enigmatic character, I feel he may have been somehow misled into believing he has a viable, patentable design for an anti-gravity circuit.  If anti-gravity is possible, it likely requires some sort of quantum computing technology that he would not have access to.

Edited by hacktorp, 21 November 2012 - 10:32 PM.


#86    psyche101

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:36 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 21 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

I only wanted to invite the sharing of useful information, pro or con, which may shed light on this so-called Solar Warden program, and which has been intriguingly referenced by Novel and others.  You don't believe it, and I accept that.

Personally, I was interested in seeing where the "pro" side would end up taking this thread. But that is neither here nor there now.
Well I do not believe it because the sheer size of the proposed object cannot possibly remain hidden. Novell claims to have a photo, which negates stealth technology, not that stealth is mentioned in the DoD claim. The X37B is only 29 feet in length, and the OTV-1 was tracked by amateur astronomers. A football field should be a snap, 8 of them I am not sure how anyone could miss that. That is like missing the Rio Carnival when it went by your doorstep.

View Posthacktorp, on 21 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

I never made mention of skeptics, btw...I believe I said "robo-debunkerbots" which aren't the same thing.  Sorry if your ears were feeling a bit warm.

No apologies necessary. Anyone who dares suggest the prosaic where the fantastic is suggested is generally labelled in such derogatory manners. Good to see you do not see them as the same thing. What in your definition is the difference? As in general I agree that such exists, but have never seen what I would refer to as such on this particular site.

View Posthacktorp, on 21 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

As for Gordon Novel, while he is clearly a fascinating and enigmatic character, I feel he may have been somehow misled into believing he has a viable, patentable design for an anti-gravity circuit.  If anti-gravity is possible, it likely requires some sort of quantum computing technology that he would not have access to.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I have no problem with that. I agree that he is an enigmatic character, and on the respect fascinating at the same time. You may be right about anti gravity, you might not, but I am quite sure that as we have no way of understanding what creates the forces behind gravity at this point in time so we are at least one full step away from anti gravity, and will remain so until gravity itself becomes better understood.

Edited by psyche101, 22 November 2012 - 12:38 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#87    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 21 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

As for Gordon Novel, while he is clearly a fascinating and enigmatic character, I feel he may have been somehow misled into believing he has a viable, patentable design for an anti-gravity circuit.  If anti-gravity is possible, it likely requires some sort of quantum computing technology that he would not have access to.

Aerospace journalist Nick Cook has some interesting things to say about these very advanced technologies being developed by the military.  I think it's easy to hide just about anything from the general public, since most of them aren't paying attention anyway and can be dealt with in five-second soundbites, but this is not so easy with really informed people like Cook, who are paying attention.




#88    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:44 AM

In general, my views on UFOs, ETs and alien technology are similar to those of Richard Dolan.  I do agree with him that the reasons and motives behind the UFO phenomenon are largely unknown, at least to people like me, and that one of the reasons that so much is known about this in the U.S. is that there were so many dogged, aggressive investigators here who just wouldn't take "no" for an answer, and that they found sources within the government who agreed with them that the public had the right to know more about this.



Edited by TheMacGuffin, 22 November 2012 - 04:45 AM.


#89    psyche101

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:07 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 22 November 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

In general, my views on UFOs, ETs and alien technology are similar to those of Richard Dolan.  I do agree with him that the reasons and motives behind the UFO phenomenon are largely unknown, at least to people like me, and that one of the reasons that so much is known about this in the U.S. is that there were so many dogged, aggressive investigators here who just wouldn't take "no" for an answer, and that they found sources within the government who agreed with them that the public had the right to know more about this.

I cannot say I am familiar enough with his work to comment either way, I really out to read one of his books. I know he has a good academic background.

The guys that I personally have taken a liking to with regards to UFOlogy would probably be Kevin (Bloody LOL ) Randle and Bill Doleman. I like the way they approach cases, and the way the carry out their evaluations and investigations.

Edited by psyche101, 22 November 2012 - 06:09 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#90    psyche101

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 22 November 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

In general, my views on UFOs, ETs and alien technology are similar to those of Richard Dolan.

More surprising than the fact that he runs a course on UFOlogy, is the fact that a course exists on UFOLogy. I had no idea.

LINK - UFO 501 Introduction to Ufology Instructor: Richard Dolan

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.





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