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#46    stevewinn

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 30 December 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

most of these jobs that have been created are low hours low wage jobs which have to be suplimented by the tax payer just so the people doing them can survive.
the tax coffers havent increased a jot even though the productive side of the economy has gone up its all smoke and mirrors .
so we have the situation where politicians are saying they are reducing national dept by sacking civil servents yet they are happy to pay private sector employees with tax payers money .
can you not see this ?

i dont agree, but just for arguments sake. you cannot argue with job creation. no matter which way you spin it, its better to have a job than no job at all, even low paid or part time work. having a job gives you much more than just money. it gives you drive, determination, a structure to your life, gives you skills for life. and most important i feel it gives you pride and self-respect. i'd rather subsidise a worker through tax breaks or credits than subsidise the long term useless on £65 a week for doing naff all. -

in my view tax credits are a good thing. the social aspect of children seeing their parents going out to work,having that structure to their lives, watching mum and/or dad going to work earning money, earning the right to have that 46 inch LED TV, the right to have that annual holiday, having a car etc.. its all a social plus money cannot buy. plus the likelihood is these people who have taken a pay cut, or less working hours will better themselves - these people deserve the help with tax credits. because these people are more than likely within 12 months or so move into a better paid job, get that promotion and then be paying far more in taxes than they received while being entitled to tax credits.

You said you do not support the labour party. but it seems you rather agree with their strategy of making benefits a lifestyle choice for many. when they took office the governments benefit bill was £96 billion, over their two terms in office it had exploded to £160 Billion. to put that in perspective that is the same as the combined spending on the NHS, schools and universities. so think just for a minute, of the 29 million workers in the UK, and all that tax generated ITS DOES NOT EVEN COVER the out goings in benefit payments. Thank you Labour. Thank them for selling 60% of our gold reserves. Thank Labour raiding the Pension TAX pot to the tune of £100Billion. so they could continue with their social experiment.

thank labour for mass immigration - for two reasons - first and foremost to rub the Tories noses in it so they'd never be elected to office again, because its well known that immigrants tend to vote for the political party who was in office when they arrived - and secondly they wanted mass immigration for cheap labour, mainly eastern europe helping keep the wage bill down for your British worker. this mass immigration was passed off as a labour shortage in the low skilled sector a sector supposedly that British workers wouldn't do. - no because labour were happy to let them sign on benefits long term ( see the benefit bill increase)  Labour yet again thinking they'd secure more voters i mean, if your long term useless and happy on benefits who are you going to vote for in a general election a government who leaves you on benefits to secure your vote or a government who will question your entitlement. the labour party and their social engineering have a lot to answer for.

The Labour party had ten years of BOOM. by the end we had nothing, a trillion pound plus deficit. its ******* staggering, and yet people will still vote labour. if people truly believed in bettering the country labour would never see the light of office again. and that goes for any political party. if they damage the country to the extent the labour party did then they too deserve never to form a government. but it seems people remain loyal to a particular party regardless.

I've stated before, from the first election i was eligible to vote in i voted for Labour, in the next general election i voted Labour again, but by midterm there was danger signs. the selling of the gold, the pension raid, and the fact their was a housing/financial bubble about to burst and cold hard reality that when the government looked in tax pot it was empty. so in the last election i voted Tory for the first time ever and if this lot mess up i'll be voting for someone else. i have no loyalty to a political party only to the Nation. and my vote goes to which ever party i feel will benefit the Nation as a whole.

Edited by stevewinn, 31 December 2012 - 12:20 PM.

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#47    smurf0852

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:59 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 31 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

i dont agree, but just for arguments sake. you cannot argue with job creation. no matter which way you spin it, its better to have a job than no job at all, even low paid or part time work. having a job gives you much more than just money. it gives you drive, determination, a structure to your life, gives you skills for life. and most important i feel it gives you pride and self-respect. i'd rather subsidise a worker through tax breaks or credits than subsidise the long term useless on £65 a week for doing naff all. -

in my view tax credits are a good thing. the social aspect of children seeing their parents going out to work,having that structure to their lives, watching mum and/or dad going to work earning money, earning the right to have that 46 inch LED TV, the right to have that annual holiday, having a car etc.. its all a social plus money cannot buy. plus the likelihood is these people who have taken a pay cut, or less working hours will better themselves - these people deserve the help with tax credits. because these people are more than likely within 12 months or so move into a better paid job, get that promotion and then be paying far more in taxes than they received while being entitled to tax credits.

You said you do not support the labour party. but it seems you rather agree with their strategy of making benefits a lifestyle choice for many. when they took office the governments benefit bill was £96 billion, over their two terms in office it had exploded to £160 Billion. to put that in perspective that is the same as the combined spending on the NHS, schools and universities. so think just for a minute, of the 29 million workers in the UK, and all that tax generated ITS DOES NOT EVEN COVER the out goings in benefit payments. Thank you Labour. Thank them for selling 60% of our gold reserves. Thank Labour raiding the Pension TAX pot to the tune of £100Billion. so they could continue with their social experiment.

thank labour for mass immigration - for two reasons - first and foremost to rub the Tories noses in it so they'd never be elected to office again, because its well known that immigrants tend to vote for the political party who was in office when they arrived - and secondly they wanted mass immigration for cheap labour, mainly eastern europe helping keep the wage bill down for your British worker. this mass immigration was passed off as a labour shortage in the low skilled sector a sector supposedly that British workers wouldn't do. - no because labour were happy to let them sign on benefits long term ( see the benefit bill increase)  Labour yet again thinking they'd secure more voters i mean, if your long term useless and happy on benefits who are you going to vote for in a general election a government who leaves you on benefits to secure your vote or a government who will question your entitlement. the labour party and their social engineering have a lot to answer for.

The Labour party had ten years of BOOM. by the end we had nothing, a trillion pound plus deficit. its ******* staggering, and yet people will still vote labour. if people truly believed in bettering the country labour would never see the light of office again. and that goes for any political party. if they damage the country to the extent the labour party did then they too deserve never to form a government. but it seems people remain loyal to a particular party regardless.

I've stated before, from the first election i was eligible to vote in i voted for Labour, in the next general election i voted Labour again, but by midterm there was danger signs. the selling of the gold, the pension raid, and the fact their was a housing/financial bubble about to burst and cold hard reality that when the government looked in tax pot it was empty. so in the last election i voted Tory for the first time ever and if this lot mess up i'll be voting for someone else. i have no loyalty to a political party only to the Nation. and my vote goes to which ever party i feel will benefit the Nation as a whole.
i really dont care if you agree the facts are people are going to work for nothing and then getting paid by the goverment to work in prvate  sector jobs .what in your torie capatalist world is good and proper about that.people should have good working conditions and get paid a living wage for there labour .is this so wrong in your right wing tory boy doctrine.
after all the torie party was established to protect the gentry from peasents wanting to have there own property .you rightwing folks must get all excited when a house is repossesed from a poor person so a rich person can then rent it out for twice as much as the mortgage just so you can have a better vintage of brandy while the family evicted lives on the street .i hope you feel warm and fluffy .however these people will one day take it back and knobs like you will be at the top off the hit list.


#48    smurf0852

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:12 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 31 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

i dont agree, but just for arguments sake. you cannot argue with job creation. no matter which way you spin it, its better to have a job than no job at all, even low paid or part time work. having a job gives you much more than just money. it gives you drive, determination, a structure to your life, gives you skills for life. and most important i feel it gives you pride and self-respect. i'd rather subsidise a worker through tax breaks or credits than subsidise the long term useless on £65 a week for doing naff all. -

in my view tax credits are a good thing. the social aspect of children seeing their parents going out to work,having that structure to their lives, watching mum and/or dad going to work earning money, earning the right to have that 46 inch LED TV, the right to have that annual holiday, having a car etc.. its all a social plus money cannot buy. plus the likelihood is these people who have taken a pay cut, or less working hours will better themselves - these people deserve the help with tax credits. because these people are more than likely within 12 months or so move into a better paid job, get that promotion and then be paying far more in taxes than they received while being entitled to tax credits.

You said you do not support the labour party. but it seems you rather agree with their strategy of making benefits a lifestyle choice for many. when they took office the governments benefit bill was £96 billion, over their two terms in office it had exploded to £160 Billion. to put that in perspective that is the same as the combined spending on the NHS, schools and universities. so think just for a minute, of the 29 million workers in the UK, and all that tax generated ITS DOES NOT EVEN COVER the out goings in benefit payments. Thank you Labour. Thank them for selling 60% of our gold reserves. Thank Labour raiding the Pension TAX pot to the tune of £100Billion. so they could continue with their social experiment.

thank labour for mass immigration - for two reasons - first and foremost to rub the Tories noses in it so they'd never be elected to office again, because its well known that immigrants tend to vote for the political party who was in office when they arrived - and secondly they wanted mass immigration for cheap labour, mainly eastern europe helping keep the wage bill down for your British worker. this mass immigration was passed off as a labour shortage in the low skilled sector a sector supposedly that British workers wouldn't do. - no because labour were happy to let them sign on benefits long term ( see the benefit bill increase)  Labour yet again thinking they'd secure more voters i mean, if your long term useless and happy on benefits who are you going to vote for in a general election a government who leaves you on benefits to secure your vote or a government who will question your entitlement. the labour party and their social engineering have a lot to answer for.

The Labour party had ten years of BOOM. by the end we had nothing, a trillion pound plus deficit. its ******* staggering, and yet people will still vote labour. if people truly believed in bettering the country labour would never see the light of office again. and that goes for any political party. if they damage the country to the extent the labour party did then they too deserve never to form a government. but it seems people remain loyal to a particular party regardless.

I've stated before, from the first election i was eligible to vote in i voted for Labour, in the next general election i voted Labour again, but by midterm there was danger signs. the selling of the gold, the pension raid, and the fact their was a housing/financial bubble about to burst and cold hard reality that when the government looked in tax pot it was empty. so in the last election i voted Tory for the first time ever and if this lot mess up i'll be voting for someone else. i have no loyalty to a political party only to the Nation. and my vote goes to which ever party i feel will benefit the Nation as a whole.
and now you would sell your soul to a one issue party who has members that think a women who is pregnant with a disabled child should be forced to abort it to save money.
to say its one idiot is stupid this is the kind of thinking that defines UKIP .they are an ultra right wing facist party to beleive otherwise is ******* stupid.


#49    stevewinn

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

View Postsmurf0852, on 01 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

i really dont care if you agree the facts are people are going to work for nothing and then getting paid by the goverment to work in prvate  sector jobs .what in your torie capatalist world is good and proper about that.people should have good working conditions and get paid a living wage for there labour .is this so wrong in your right wing tory boy doctrine.
after all the torie party was established to protect the gentry from peasents wanting to have there own property .you rightwing folks must get all excited when a house is repossesed from a poor person so a rich person can then rent it out for twice as much as the mortgage just so you can have a better vintage of brandy while the family evicted lives on the street .i hope you feel warm and fluffy .however these people will one day take it back and knobs like you will be at the top off the hit list.

Did you go to drama school? because i've noticed you go off on a tangent with your replies.


People are not going to work for nothing, your being rather dramatic, you make it sound like slave labour or the old fashioned work houses. - protected by law workers will get paid a rate of pay set down in law. due to their personal circumstances they could be entitled to a tax break through tax credits etc..

IF we have small companies, up and down the land looking to recruit / expand but can only offer new employees the minimum wage rate of pay of £232 a week, 37.5 hours a week - what is so wrong with the government subsidising their rate of pay?. just look at the benefits to the economy and society as a whole. we have a company investing for the future, a company expanding, a company investing in a person, - then we have the employee in employment, learning new skills, earning a living wage, as a result they'll have all the bonuses that comes with being employed, the knock on effect, a rise in living standards, better lifestyle, more spending power, they are contributing to society, playing a active part in the countries economic output. - its a win win situation for both the employer, the employee and society - note that small businesses account for 80% of income and growth in the economy so its a massive influence. I remember a study which found for every one person employed in the PRIVATE sector it creates a further three jobs, compared with the Public sector.

As for working conditions, yet again set by law everyone who is employed, as the right under that law to be provided with a safe and clean working environment. if thats not the case contact your local HSE.

As for mortgages The Government has a scheme in place called M.R.S Mortgage Rescue Scheme. whereby they'll help with mortgage payments. safe you and your home from repossession in the process stopping families becoming homeless. a mate as benefited from this scheme.

the alternative to all of the above is long term unemployment which is good for nobody.

View Postsmurf0852, on 01 January 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

and now you would sell your soul to a one issue party who has members that think a women who is pregnant with a disabled child should be forced to abort it to save money.
to say its one idiot is stupid this is the kind of thinking that defines UKIP .they are an ultra right wing facist party to beleive otherwise is ******* stupid.

We've been over this already. UKIP do not have a policy or agree with the statement made. and for you to keep repeating it does your argument no favours.

Edited by stevewinn, 01 January 2013 - 11:10 AM.

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#50    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 01 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

i really dont care if you agree the facts are people are going to work for nothing and then getting paid by the goverment to work in prvate  sector jobs .what in your torie capatalist world is good and proper about that.people should have good working conditions and get paid a living wage for there labour .is this so wrong in your right wing tory boy doctrine.
after all the torie party was established to protect the gentry from peasents wanting to have there own property .you rightwing folks must get all excited when a house is repossesed from a poor person so a rich person can then rent it out for twice as much as the mortgage just so you can have a better vintage of brandy while the family evicted lives on the street .i hope you feel warm and fluffy .however these people will one day take it back and knobs like you will be at the top off the hit list.


Remind you of anyone?  :-

Attached File  tumblr_lk60lpc9881qc709vo1_250.jpg   35.56K   3 downloads

One day comrades.....

p.s. I think you are flogging a dead horse with this one steve. There are those us who believe in self reliance & hard work and there those that believe the 'state' (i.e. taxpayer) should look after you from cradle to grave....I think he belongs to the latter.

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 01 January 2013 - 12:40 PM.

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#51    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 01 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

i really dont care if you agree the facts are people are going to work for nothing and then getting paid by the goverment to work in prvate  sector jobs .what in your torie capatalist world is good and proper about that.people should have good working conditions and get paid a living wage for there labour .is this so wrong in your right wing tory boy doctrine.
after all the torie party was established to protect the gentry from peasents wanting to have there own property .you rightwing folks must get all excited when a house is repossesed from a poor person so a rich person can then rent it out for twice as much as the mortgage just so you can have a better vintage of brandy while the family evicted lives on the street .i hope you feel warm and fluffy .however these people will one day take it back and knobs like you will be at the top off the hit list.

Do you mean bad landlords like these?  :-

http://www.newham.go...ForHellHole.htm

http://www.dailymail...e-families.html

http://www.newhamrec..._fine_1_1674192

http://www.eveningti...-flats.17879499

http://www.property1...of-filth/28850/

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

#52    tyrant lizard

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 01 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

i really dont care if you agree the facts are people are going to work for nothing and then getting paid by the goverment to work in prvate  sector jobs .what in your torie capatalist world is good and proper about that.people should have good working conditions and get paid a living wage for there labour .is this so wrong in your right wing tory boy doctrine.
after all the torie party was established to protect the gentry from peasents wanting to have there own property .you rightwing folks must get all excited when a house is repossesed from a poor person so a rich person can then rent it out for twice as much as the mortgage just so you can have a better vintage of brandy while the family evicted lives on the street .i hope you feel warm and fluffy .however these people will one day take it back and knobs like you will be at the top off the hit list.
If you can't pay your mortgage your house should be repossessed. Or do you think people should be living in this country for free. Exactly who would you like to be paying for all the houses?


#53    Yes_Man

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 01 January 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

If you can't pay your mortgage your house should be repossessed. Or do you think people should be living in this country for free. Exactly who would you like to be paying for all the houses?
Godzilla


#54    smurf0852

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:24 AM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 01 January 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

If you can't pay your mortgage your house should be repossessed. Or do you think people should be living in this country for free. Exactly who would you like to be paying for all the houses?
well at the moment the taxpayer does mostly in housing benefits to the person who ends up renting it.are you missing the point.


#55    smurf0852

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:27 AM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 01 January 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Remind you of anyone?  :-

Attachment tumblr_lk60lpc9881qc709vo1_250.jpg

One day comrades.....

p.s. I think you are flogging a dead horse with this one steve. There are those us who believe in self reliance & hard work and there those that believe the 'state' (i.e. taxpayer) should look after you from cradle to grave....I think he belongs to the latter.
if you look im saying people should get paid enough off private employers to be able to pay there own way without getting handouts from the goverment .
or is it ok is the handouts ultimately end up in rich pockets.is it only poor people who shouldnt get taxpayers money ?


#56    smurf0852

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:30 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 01 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Did you go to drama school? because i've noticed you go off on a tangent with your replies.


People are not going to work for nothing, your being rather dramatic, you make it sound like slave labour or the old fashioned work houses. - protected by law workers will get paid a rate of pay set down in law. due to their personal circumstances they could be entitled to a tax break through tax credits etc..

IF we have small companies, up and down the land looking to recruit / expand but can only offer new employees the minimum wage rate of pay of £232 a week, 37.5 hours a week - what is so wrong with the government subsidising their rate of pay?. just look at the benefits to the economy and society as a whole. we have a company investing for the future, a company expanding, a company investing in a person, - then we have the employee in employment, learning new skills, earning a living wage, as a result they'll have all the bonuses that comes with being employed, the knock on effect, a rise in living standards, better lifestyle, more spending power, they are contributing to society, playing a active part in the countries economic output. - its a win win situation for both the employer, the employee and society - note that small businesses account for 80% of income and growth in the economy so its a massive influence. I remember a study which found for every one person employed in the PRIVATE sector it creates a further three jobs, compared with the Public sector.

As for working conditions, yet again set by law everyone who is employed, as the right under that law to be provided with a safe and clean working environment. if thats not the case contact your local HSE.

As for mortgages The Government has a scheme in place called M.R.S Mortgage Rescue Scheme. whereby they'll help with mortgage payments. safe you and your home from repossession in the process stopping families becoming homeless. a mate as benefited from this scheme.

the alternative to all of the above is long term unemployment which is good for nobody.



We've been over this already. UKIP do not have a policy or agree with the statement made. and for you to keep repeating it does your argument no favours.
the alternative is to pay people a wage they can live on and save the tax payer a fortune wouldnt you as a right wing type like that.or do you only favour small goverment as long as they keep the peasents dependent on them.





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