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what is perfection


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#1    danielost

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

What is perfection.  No where in the bible does god casll himself perfect.  Others do but god doesn't.
Christ tells us to be perfect as god is.  Which seems to say that gods perfection is not out of our reach.
God says of himself, he is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow.  Is this perfection or being true to oneself or both

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#2    Kowalski

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

My dad always says, "There only two perfect people in the world. One's God, and I'm the other one..."
:)


#3    Arpee

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:10 AM

According to The Bible, Perfection is unconditional love.

Jesus says Just as God shines the sun for those who are good and evil, and God gives rain to those who are good and evil; Jesus says we should love our enemies so that we can have a perfect love and be perfect like God.

Quote

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. - Matthew 5:43-48


People think Non-Duality is just a Buddhist/Hindu idea, where you try to reach a perfect mental place (nirvana) by overcoming duality, but Jesus taught the same thing. Overcome duality of "love" and "hate", "Friend" and "Enemy", by loving your enemy and having perfect love.

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." - Luke 6:35

#4    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:35 AM

The OP kinda made me smile.  Anselm "proved" the existence of God with a proof that contains the unstated assumption that perfection is a real possibility with properties.  Take away that assumption and his proof doesn't work.  Of course everything is perfect -- a "perfect" whatever it happens to be.

I don't see where something dual could not also be "perfect," (a "perfect twoness").


#5    Perfection

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:45 AM

View PostArpee, on 14 June 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

According to The Bible, Perfection is unconditional love.

Jesus says Just as God shines the sun for those who are good and evil, and God gives rain to those who are good and evil; Jesus says we should love our enemies so that we can have a perfect love and be perfect like God.




People think Non-Duality is just a Buddhist/Hindu idea, where you try to reach a perfect mental place (nirvana) by overcoming duality, but Jesus taught the same thing. Overcome duality of "love" and "hate", "Friend" and "Enemy", by loving your enemy and having perfect love.

Yes & most importantly one must show unconditional love to all spiritual beings both positive & negative as well. If we don't then the negative ones will be a wall in the spiritual side that we can't move past. Usually people mistake good beings for bad, when the beings are only trying to help them. So for our own sakes we need to show unconditional love to all spiritual beings, positive & negative, if we are to receive the endless divine intervention that is being handed to us.


#6    shrooma

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:04 AM

cornwall.
no, wait, a cold beer in cornwall.
a cold beer in cornwall on a sunny day.
a cold beer in cornwall on a sunny day with a friend.
a cold beer in cornwall on a sunny day with an interesting friend.
a cold beer in cornwall on a sunny day with an interesting female friend.
dammit, this perfection lark is pretty tough!!
a cold beer in cornwall on a sunny day with an interesting, attractive female friend who has the morals of an alley-cat.
.
nailed it.
;-)

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#7    Moon Gazer

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:38 AM

This man right here.... Myles Kennedy.... that is perfection.....

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#8    Jello

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:16 PM

We all have our own definition of perfect.

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#9    Glenville86

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:25 PM

I am not quite sure that loving everyone would be perfection.  I think man is not capable of perfection in the eyes of God.  Even the best of us are with sin which makes us not perfect.  This is why in Christianity, Jesus died for our sins. This is our only way for us to make it to Heaven as we are not perfect.


#10    Philangeli

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

View Postdanielost, on 13 June 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

What is perfection.  No where in the bible does god casll himself perfect.  Others do but god doesn't.
Christ tells us to be perfect as god is.  Which seems to say that gods perfection is not out of our reach.
God says of himself, he is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow.  Is this perfection or being true to oneself or both

We may well be told to be perfect (in a Christian context), but , in this life, we can but try. As far as I know (in Christian teachings) the only person who lived without sinning (apart from Christ) was his mother.

But, we live in hope, and aspire towards it.

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#11    danielost

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:34 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 15 June 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:



We may well be told to be perfect (in a Christian context), but , in this life, we can but try. As far as I know (in Christian teachings) the only person who lived without sinning (apart from Christ) was his mother.

But, we live in hope, and aspire towards it.

The catholics teach that about mary.  Mormons believe she as just a woman, who watched her son nailed to a piece of wood and suffer.  I don't think any mom would suffer any less than she did if it was their child up there. Unless she thought the child deserved it.  No, not even then.  Assuming she loved her child.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#12    Philangeli

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:09 PM

View Postdanielost, on 15 June 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

The catholics teach that about mary.  Mormons believe she as just a woman, who watched her son nailed to a piece of wood and suffer.  I don't think any mom would suffer any less than she did if it was their child up there. Unless she thought the child deserved it.  No, not even then.  Assuming she loved her child.

And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, you that are highly favored, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women.
Luke 1:28

My understanding of that verse is that she was without sin.
Many Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, etc.  believe this as well.

Philangeli


“When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.” Huang Po

#13    danielost

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 15 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:



And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, you that are highly favored, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women.
Luke 1:28

My understanding of that verse is that she was without sin.
Many Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, etc.  believe this as well.

That doesn't mean she remained sinless.  The new testiment also says only christ was without sin.  But, I doubt that she was sinless when the angel came to her.  She was just the most worthy of women at the time in the line of david.  Remember her cousin carried john the baptist at the same time.  If I remember right the angel ueed simmular words about her too.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#14    GreenmansGod

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:40 PM

Perfection is when you reach the state of oneness and a cold beer on a hot day at the nude beach with an interesting, attractive female friend who has the morals of an alley-cat

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#15    Philangeli

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

View Postdanielost, on 15 June 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

That doesn't mean she remained sinless.  The new testiment also says only christ was without sin.  But, I doubt that she was sinless when the angel came to her.  She was just the most worthy of women at the time in the line of david.  Remember her cousin carried john the baptist at the same time.  If I remember right the angel ueed simmular words about her too.

In the context of mainstream Catholic (and many other Christian) teachings, Mary was chosen by God to be the Mother of Christ because she was humble and pure, and thus it is reasonable to assume that she was without sin. And, it is quite possible that her cousin, Elisabeth (the mother of John the Baptist), was as well.

The point I was trying to make in reply to your OP, is that we are all called to perfection, but the vast majority of us are not going to make it in this life - no matter what belief system we subscribe to.

Edited by Philangeli, 15 June 2013 - 09:54 PM.

Philangeli


“When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.” Huang Po




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