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Could Noah's Ark have really happened ?


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#286    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 01:12 PM

Noah's ark and a global flood is just one of those stories that those who take it literally are in deep water.


#287    Sean93

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:56 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 12 April 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

The version of the legends/myths we have originated in Sumeria/Mesopotamia.  The oldest known copies in cuneiform script date from about 1200 BC.  The stories are obviously much older.  What the originals said, we'll never know, unless some archeologist digs up something.  So my explanation of the original list consisting of barnyard animals is as viable as the Bible's version of the story.  AND:  mine makes a lot more sense.  The Bible simply "borrowed" the flood story body-and-soul from Sumer.

That being said, the Bible's version of the story leaves some serious problems.  How did the snake's descendents reach the Americas?  It's a mighty long swim from Ararat.  And the jaguar and the New World monkeys and the pronghorn antelope and the mountain lion and the grizzly bear and the Kodiak bear - the bears can't swim far enough to reach mainland Alaska, let alone cross the Bering Sea.

And while we're on the topic:  just when did you say this all took place?  I have a tree-ring calendar going back 8400 years and there are others that reach all the way to the Ice Age.  There is no evidence of prolonged flooding in those rings.  So Noah must have lived during the Ice Age; is that what you're saying?  That would make him a contemporary of mammoths, mastodonts, saber-toothed cats, giant ground sloths, short-faced bears....  That Ark is really getting crowded.  Then there's the question of how sloth dung could survive in a Grand Canyon cave if it had been soaked in a flood.  And how pinyon pines, a desert species, could have survived nearly a year of inundation.

There's a single-stemmed Norway spruce in northern Sweden that dates back 9550 years.  And a huon pine in Indonesia that dates back 10,000 years.  A creosote bush in the Mojave Desert is 15,000 years old.  And Clone Pando is somewhere between 100,000 and one million years old - the world's oldest living thing - we think - unless that 80-acre fungus in Oregon is older.

I assume you're just tossing out some difficulties with my version of the flood story, but if you really believe that stuff, you have a lot of explaining to do.
Doug

Hang on...I don't believe in the flood story.

Maybe I'm just reading it wrong (I am just up) but do you think I believe in the story as a literal event?

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#288    Doug1o29

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:46 PM

View PostSean93, on 15 May 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Maybe I'm just reading it wrong (I am just up) but do you think I believe in the story as a literal event?
Yes.  Not the way the Bible tells the story, but a monstrous flood did occur in the Near East about 2900 BC, give or take a few centuries.  Bristlecone rings indicate two serious disruptions in 2917 BC and 2807 BC.  Something big happened in those years.

For the YECs:  Oaks record a flood ring in the anatomy of the cells.  Oaks are highly ring-porous with very distinct differences between early wood and late wood.  Normal early wood has extremely large elements that disappear in the late wood.  But a flood ring resulting from oxygen starvation, has very small early wood elements and the flame cells in the late wood are disrupted.  Makes it very easy to determine a flood year.  The European Oak Chronology goes back 17,000 years, well into the ice age and was produced from trees that grew near rivers - the ideal place for recording floods.  If there was a world-wide flood, there would be flood rings in oak trees from all over the world from the year of the flood - all in the same year.  But no such world-wide ring exists.  The trees say Noah's Flood did not cover the whole world.  Have you ever heard a tree lie?
Doug

P. S.:  For a picture of oak flood rings, see:
St. Georga, S. and E. Nielsen.  2002.  Signatures of high-magnitude 19th-century floods in Quercus macrocarpa tree rings along the Red River, Manitoba, Canada.  Geology 28:899-902.  The rings are pictured in Figure 2.
Doug

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