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you can obe? prove it


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#46    Timonthy

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:40 AM

View PostGlorfindel, on 14 June 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Do you know this from experience?

I should correct you, Lucid dream = OBE (but with totally different methods used to get into the same mind state.)
OBE = real experience (not necessarily "real" though)

Thanks, your comment contributed invaluable information to the thread.
A lucid dream is just a regular dream in which you are aware that you're dreaming.

A lucid dream is in your mind.

A lucid dream is not an OBE. It is a regular and normal occurance. People seem to be very confused and mixing definitions all over this thread.

Edit: And yes I know it from experience. I have lucid dreams very often where there's all kinds of crazy stuff happening. The dreams reflect whatever has been part of my life whether recently or further back. People I've seen, movies/games/news or whatever media I've been exposed to, so on and so forth.

I'm aware I'm dreaming. And I know it's in my head - not some parallel universe or ethereal realm.

Edit 2: Forget the above :w00t:  - please explain to me how a lucid dream is an OBE?

Edited by Timonthy, 15 June 2013 - 09:51 AM.

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#47    _Only

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostTimonthy, on 15 June 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

A lucid dream is just a regular dream in which you are aware that you're dreaming.

A lucid dream is in your mind.

A lucid dream is not an OBE. It is a regular and normal occurance. People seem to be very confused and mixing definitions all over this thread.

You keep saying that with such confidence, but how? Do you have out of body experiences?

You also say you have lucid dreams. Lucid, as in you know you are dreaming, or lucid, as in you make choices that affect your dream? If the latter, have you ever chosen to leave your body?

And the ethereal realm bit is moot, because that's just personal interpretation and doesn't matter in deciding if something is 'real' or not. The mind is the only thing we know is real, yet some use the term 'only in my mind' with such disdain.

edit: I'll shoot at answering your last question there. If you leave your body in a lucid dream, it becomes an out of body experience.

Edited by _Only, 15 June 2013 - 02:20 PM.

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#48    95-Nasty

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 02:24 PM

I have tried for years on and off to have an OBE and never managed it, tried all sorts of ways, relaxation etc. Closest i ever get is waking up with my body tense, cramps after a feeling of drifting, floating almost like weight-less-ness. Thats all i can really tell you cant explaine it! But i havnt done it.... Yet!


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#49    Glorfindel

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:19 PM

View PostTimonthy, on 15 June 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

A lucid dream is just a regular dream in which you are aware that you're dreaming.

A lucid dream is in your mind.

A lucid dream is not an OBE. It is a regular and normal occurance. People seem to be very confused and mixing definitions all over this thread.

Edit: And yes I know it from experience. I have lucid dreams very often where there's all kinds of crazy stuff happening. The dreams reflect whatever has been part of my life whether recently or further back. People I've seen, movies/games/news or whatever media I've been exposed to, so on and so forth.

I'm aware I'm dreaming. And I know it's in my head - not some parallel universe or ethereal realm.

Edit 2: Forget the above :w00t:  - please explain to me how a lucid dream is an OBE?

First off, a lucid dream is not a normal occurence for most people, it is certainly hard to achieve for most people. A lucid dream is not the same as an intense dream. You say all kinds of stuff is happening and reflecting part of your life sounds like a non-lucid but vivid dream. That could still be a lucid dream also, but during a lucid dream you have the option to ignore the normal dream imagery and create your own environment and actions.

If you would read the thread, you would see that I already did explain it. There are some differences but they are ultimately the same state of mind. An OBE usually occurs from sleep paralysis or the "trance" state as some people call it (usually after theyre used to SP and no longer find the state frightening or intense). In an OBE you literally feel as though you have left the body, and can stand in your bedroom and watch yourself sleep. However, as you leave your room for example, you might start noticing small inconsistencies, furniture might be in the wrong place, pictures on the walls might be different. As you continue these inconsistencies will add up until you are basically in a dream environment, but still very much councious. Now a lucid dream happens after falling asleep, and becoming awake mid-way through a dream (totally different methods used to induce this though). So yes, they are pretty much the same thing, but with different techniques used to reach that mind state.

In a lucid dream or OBE, you are just as councious and awake as you are when you are actually awake in the physical world. The fact that you describe your lucid dreaming experiences the same way someone would describe a normal vivid dream makes me doubt you've actually experienced a lucid dream. And don't worry about convincing me its fake, I generally think this all takes place in the mind (though Im open to the possibility that there could be "reality" to the experience), but nonetheless, that is irrelevant to the experience itself, which is certainly achievable.


#50    Glorfindel

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:24 PM

View Post_Only, on 15 June 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

You keep saying that with such confidence, but how? Do you have out of body experiences?

You also say you have lucid dreams. Lucid, as in you know you are dreaming, or lucid, as in you make choices that affect your dream? If the latter, have you ever chosen to leave your body?

And the ethereal realm bit is moot, because that's just personal interpretation and doesn't matter in deciding if something is 'real' or not. The mind is the only thing we know is real, yet some use the term 'only in my mind' with such disdain.

edit: I'll shoot at answering your last question there. If you leave your body in a lucid dream, it becomes an out of body experience.

I have actually had a lucid dream, and then midway im suddenly laying in my bed in sleep paralysis wit no break in counciousness, and then went on to have an "OBE". I have enough experience with both (though obviously, you'll just have to take my word for it :blush: ) to know that they are instrinsically related to each other.


#51    stevemagegod

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:56 AM

View PostGlorfindel, on 18 February 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

What I said was there is no difference between "astral travel" and "lucid dreaming".

I have to disagree there. There is a difference. And that difference is the Vibration Stage of AP. As someone who has experienced the vibration stage of AP since i was little i look for the signs of an obe. In lucid dreaming you don't experience that weird electrical surge of energy that passes through your body. Sometimes if you aren't expecting it that shock can wake you straight up.

Edited by stevemagegod, 17 June 2013 - 02:57 AM.


#52    shrooma

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:28 AM

I can honestly say i've had an OBE, but it seems to be nothing at all like anything anyone here's described.
it happened when I was 14, we were in some guy's garden, nicking apples from one of his trees, when he came up behind me & dragged me backwards on to the ground.
the first thing you do when falling backwards is put your arms out to catch yourself. as I hit the ground my elbow shattered, bones into hundreds of pieces, the works. when I looked at my arm, the elbow was on the ground an my forearm was pointing backwards.
suddenly, my perspective shifted & I was stood behind myself, looking down at myself from a standing position.
whether my 'spirit' left my body to protect me from feeling the intense pain (i could feel absolutely nothing), or whether my brain had gone into shock and projected the image into my mind, from subconscious data of my surroundings to protect my mental self from feeling the damage I have no idea, but the sense of looking down on myself was very real, along with the lack of pain. but the kind of OBE you are all describing, in dreams & consciously leaving your body & flying and stuff, it definitely wasn't anything like that, it was an experience brought on under extreme pain & stress, and nothing lik that has ever happened again, even during car crashes or getting shot.
I would say the phenomena does exist, but apart from severe trauma, I couldn't explain the mechanism behind it.

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#53    xFelix

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:34 AM

View Poststevemagegod, on 17 June 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

I have to disagree there. There is a difference. And that difference is the Vibration Stage of AP. As someone who has experienced the vibration stage of AP since i was little i look for the signs of an obe. In lucid dreaming you don't experience that weird electrical surge of energy that passes through your body. Sometimes if you aren't expecting it that shock can wake you straight up.

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 22 February 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

I personally do not believe OBE or Astral travel are anything at all. It could all be dreaming, period.

There are people like myself, who have experienced astral travel while fully awake. Consider this: There is a wheel with many spokes, each spoke symbolizes the different paths one can take.. They all still lead to the center. People around the world are still reporting all sorts of OBE events. While they do not all have the same methods of arriving at these events, the end result seems to be the same...

Even reputable scientists are now starting to support the possibility of there actually being a "collective consciousness". If there is a such thing as a collective consciousness, then there must be an individual consciousness that can somehow connect to it, and one's own life exists not only within, but outside of their own minds,  which would be indicative of not just astral travel, but even as far as mediumship and the afterlife being fairly possible as well.

I hope I didn't lose you guys..  I'll be waiting for my eternal damnation for that comment haha :D

Flame on!

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I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

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#54    shrooma

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:36 AM

and the only proof I have is a foot-long scar and a plastic & metal elbow that causes havoc at airport security points!
certainly nothing that the sarky little git who made the OP could point and sneer and call me a liar with.

"well we've ruined all the good bits, and cut down all the trees, and dumped the radiation into the deep blue seas.
we've ploughed up so much country just to get from A to B, just to move that little bit faster, in our five-speed luxuries-
just to move that little bit closer, to the world on your tv's."
-Culture Shock-

#55    xFelix

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:47 AM

View Postshrooma, on 17 June 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

I can honestly say i've had an OBE, but it seems to be nothing at all like anything anyone here's described.
it happened when I was 14, we were in some guy's garden, nicking apples from one of his trees, when he came up behind me & dragged me backwards on to the ground.
the first thing you do when falling backwards is put your arms out to catch yourself. as I hit the ground my elbow shattered, bones into hundreds of pieces, the works. when I looked at my arm, the elbow was on the ground an my forearm was pointing backwards.
suddenly, my perspective shifted & I was stood behind myself, looking down at myself from a standing position.
whether my 'spirit' left my body to protect me from feeling the intense pain (i could feel absolutely nothing), or whether my brain had gone into shock and projected the image into my mind, from subconscious data of my surroundings to protect my mental self from feeling the damage I have no idea, but the sense of looking down on myself was very real, along with the lack of pain. but the kind of OBE you are all describing, in dreams & consciously leaving your body & flying and stuff, it definitely wasn't anything like that, it was an experience brought on under extreme pain & stress, and nothing lik that has ever happened again, even during car crashes or getting shot.
I would say the phenomena does exist, but apart from severe trauma, I couldn't explain the mechanism behind it.

As Dr. Rupert Sheldrake would say "Many people see everything as a mechanism, and try to use mechanism to explain away all life, but the truth is we are not machines we are organic." You can't explain the mechanism because there isn't one, it was an organic experience. Organic existence is much more complex than mechanism and is really hard to grasp.. Just focus on the good that experience gave you.. For that split moment, you felt no pain at all.

Btw: As far as the difference in your experience to others, it happens a lot. Some people actually seem to take weapons in astral travel, I have never once had an experience of the sort.. Doesn't make their experience any less real to them than mine are to me. Same applies to others flying vs your standing still.

Edited by xFelix, 17 June 2013 - 03:48 AM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#56    Glorfindel

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:24 AM

View Poststevemagegod, on 17 June 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

I have to disagree there. There is a difference. And that difference is the Vibration Stage of AP. As someone who has experienced the vibration stage of AP since i was little i look for the signs of an obe. In lucid dreaming you don't experience that weird electrical surge of energy that passes through your body. Sometimes if you aren't expecting it that shock can wake you straight up.

The Vibrational state happens prior to and during sleep paralysis/ trance state in most cases. This does not imply that the states are different, just one of the differences on technique.


#57    stevemagegod

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:12 AM

View PostGlorfindel, on 18 June 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

The Vibrational state happens prior to and during sleep paralysis/ trance state in most cases. This does not imply that the states are different, just one of the differences on technique.

Except most of the time when i was younger i wasn't using any technique to trigger the state. It just happened when i entered into that "Twilight Stage" of sleep. When your awake but just barely you close your eyes for a few seconds and then BOOM that shock hits ya like a ton of bricks. Completely waking you up if you aren't expecting it........


#58    Glorfindel

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

Yes, spontaneous OBE's or their symptoms do happen. I myself never knew about the practice until i accidently fell into sleep paralysis. I was curious about the state and read upon it, and then practiced for months daily until I achieved councious exit. What Im saying is once your "out" it is the same state of mind that a lucid dream takes place in. You are right though that there are many differences along the way.

Shrooma, your OBE sounds very similar to some extreme Hindu methods Ive heard of and some tribal group's methods. It is usually induced by lots and lots of tribal dancing, often times with painful apparatus' attached to the body, combined with exhaustion from ritualistic dancing for hours upon hours. It basically stresses the body out to the point that you want "out" of your body, and the practitioners do start to feel like theyve left the body or are observing themselves from a different view point. I am not sure if this is related to the OBE's we're talking about, but its clear that this method works as well at inducing some sort of out of body state. Then again, just being in shock at your injury could have induced it and I could be way off the mark here.

Edited by Glorfindel, 18 June 2013 - 06:36 PM.





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