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Petition to make devocalization illegal


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#61    Myles

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:45 AM

View Postmoonshadow60, on 29 October 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

I am vegetarian. I do not wear wool or wear things made of leather. I put bugs in a jar or on a piece of paper and then put them outside at the edge of my lawn.  There are no rodents in my house. And I will not debate, just replying to your questions. This thread is about something else, not me.
Good for you.  It appears that you stand by your beliefs.  That is refreshing.


#62    Grey14

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:16 PM

View Postmoonshadow60, on 29 October 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

What is the difference between "regular" and "cosmetic" clawing?

from webMD

Q: What is the actual procedure involved in declawing a cat?
A: There are several different techniques, but they all involve one thing. You have to remove the claw, and you have to remove the little piece of bone that the claw grows from. If you don’t, the claw will try to grow back.
The less you remove, the better, and that’s where the differences in techniques come in. The way cats are normally declawed, there’s an instrument with a sliding blade, almost like a guillotine, and it cuts a straight line through the joint between that little piece of bone and the next piece of bone, which is much bigger.
When you do that, right underneath that is the pad, and you actually cut that right in half, too. So it’s like cutting the tip of your finger off.
With cosmetic declawing, you use a tiny curved blade to go in and dissect out the claw and the tiny piece of bone. The pad is intact; all the soft tissue is there. So the cat is walking comfortably very quickly because its pads are fine. When the pads are cut in half, the cat can’t walk on them without discomfort. That’s what cats put their weight on. And they can’t walk on them comfortably for weeks. Most of the pain comes from the trauma to the soft tissue.
But cosmetic declawing is not an easy procedure to do: It’s time consuming, so not many veterinarians do it.

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#63    moonshadow60

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

That sounds more humane than lopping off the entire joint, but I would rather my couch be in tatters and be scratched by my fur kid every day than do that to her.  Funny thing, if you treat an animal with kindness and never strike them or squirt them with water, they don't scratch or bite.


#64    Myles

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

View Postmoonshadow60, on 30 October 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

That sounds more humane than lopping off the entire joint, but I would rather my couch be in tatters and be scratched by my fur kid every day than do that to her.  Funny thing, if you treat an animal with kindness and never strike them or squirt them with water, they don't scratch or bite.

That is not true.   It's true much of the time, but even the most loved and well taken care of cat will still scratch.   Same goes for dogs.   I do agree that animals who are less cared for act different than ones that are shown the attention they crave.


#65    moonshadow60

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:41 PM

Maybe I should clarify by saying none of my animals has scratched or bitten me and I've a very long history of having pets.  They can tell by my voice whether I am being stern or loving.  But this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread, which is devocalization.


#66    Cryptid-Seeker

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:45 PM

View PostGrey14, on 29 October 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

What I find somewhat disturbing in the hostility towards Aztek, he didn't start the aggression. His first post was met with well maybe someone should cut your vocal cords, simply because he felt it didn't hurt the animal.

I am sorry if thats how my comment came across, I was in a hurry. I was trying to convey that he would probably very painful if someone cut his vocal cords. Again, I apologise

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#67    Child of Bast

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

Cryptid-Seeker,I am the one who made the statement regarding aztek's vocal cords and I stand by that statement. If I get kicked off this forum because of it, so be it.

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#68    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:09 PM

View PostCryptid-Seeker, on 30 October 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

I am sorry if thats how my comment came across, I was in a hurry. I was trying to convey that he would probably very painful if someone cut his vocal cords. Again, I apologise

Is there any proof that the animals have suffered much pain by this procedure? How would this pain compare to spaying or even a shock from a collar?

No-one has answered this question, which i have asked numerous times in this thread.


#69    Michelle

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:36 PM

Sleep deprivation can cause...

High blood pressure
  • Heart attack
  • Heart failure
  • Stroke
  • Obesity
  • Psychiatric problems, including depression and other mood disorders
  • Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)
  • Mental impairment
  • Fetal and childhood growth retardation
  • Injury from accidents
  • Disruption of bed partner's sleep quality
  • Poor quality of life

  • While I am not a fan of devocalization, and never had it done to an animal, I don't think it harms them any more than any other surgery. If it comes to a constantly barking dog and the health of my husband or I it's going to be the dog that goes. I've rescued dozens and dozens of dogs in my life, but I would never allow one to totally disrupt my life and the lives of my neighbors and friends.

  • If a dog barks constantly it is usually because they aren't trained well and aren't being taken care of properly. If they aren't being taken care of they need to be in another home. A happy dog does not bark incessantly. Barking isn't an early warning of impending danger if they bark so often that they are ignored. It isn't natural for a dog to howl or bark almost 24/7 and is a sign that they are in some sort of distress. If people don't understand that then they shouldn't be a pet owner.



#70    moonshadow60

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:50 PM

If a dog barks constantly it is usually because they aren't trained well and aren't being taken care of properly. If they aren't being taken care of they need to be in another home. A happy dog does not bark incessantly. Barking isn't an early warning of impending danger if they bark so often that they are ignored. It isn't natural for a dog to howl or bark almost 24/7 and is a sign that they are in some sort of distress. If people don't understand that then they shouldn't be a pet owner.

Excellent answer! I don't blame an animal who barks too much, I blame the person he shares his home with for not paying attention.


#71    Myles

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:45 PM

In many cases, but not all.   Many dogs will bark at any other animal it sees if it cannot chase it or get to it.   This is not as much the case with inside dogs as it is with the outside dogs.  I'm not a fan of dogs being tied up or chained up outside, but I understand why it is neccesary sometimes.
I have a small dog that gets all the attention he can handle with a family of four.  Very happy dog.   However, he will bark like crazy at any noise he hears.   I've had to use the shock collar on him which has worked pretty well.   I still need to put it on him every couple months.  With the devocalization surgury, I would never have to use the shock collar again.   I have no plans to do it, but it's a thought.


#72    Michelle

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

It sounds like you may have more of a problem with consistency if there are that many people in the house. Someone might be letting him get away with barking while you aren't home. The rules have to be clear and enforced on a regular basis. He needs to told he's a good dog when he has a legitimate reason to bark.


#73    Myles

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:18 PM

View PostMichelle, on 30 October 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

It sounds like you may have more of a problem with consistency if there are that many people in the house. Someone might be letting him get away with barking while you aren't home. The rules have to be clear and enforced on a regular basis. He needs to told he's a good dog when he has a legitimate reason to bark.

Nope, we all let him know that he should not bark.   Sure a 9 year old will let him bark without consequence, but that is to be expected.  Some dogs will not stop until punishment is employed.  That punishment may be a shock collar or a slap on the rear.   Much depends on the bread as well.   Our previous dog was a quick study.  He was very well behaved and had lots of freedom.  He was a jack russel.   Great dog.


#74    Cryptid-Seeker

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

View PostLady Kasey, on 30 October 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Cryptid-Seeker,I am the one who made the statement regarding aztek's vocal cords and I stand by that statement. If I get kicked off this forum because of it, so be it.

Oh! I thought they were refering to when I said "Do you think it would hurt if someone cut your vocal chords?"

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#75    WGH

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:30 PM

Almost all dogs can be trained. If you want to go down the de-vocalisation route its likeley because its easier. If thats the case don't own a dog.No animal should be mutilated by us, we think we're such an incredibly intelligent species. Makes me sick. The human race (as a whole) is nothing but barbaric and arrogant.
If I was a US citizen I would have signed the petition in an instant.





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