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Edward Snowden NSA whistleblower


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#316    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:03 PM

Naive citizens make for naive fools governing them and naive nations.  Go ahead and have your investigations and put a few people in jail and then have a nuclear weapon destroy a major US city and see how you feel.


#317    Raptor Witness

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 July 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Naive citizens make for naive fools governing them and naive nations.  Go ahead and have your investigations and put a few people in jail and then have a nuclear weapon destroy a major US city and see how you feel.
The ability to stop that kind of attack won't come from the NSA. They won't be given that satisfaction, because the same underlying power built the first one.



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#318    RabidCat

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 July 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Naive citizens make for naive fools governing them and naive nations.  Go ahead and have your investigations and put a few people in jail and then have a nuclear weapon destroy a major US city and see how you feel.
It's hard for me to believe I'm actually going to waste the time answering the above.

If you think it's naive to stand up and make oneself heard against the sort of secrecy the gov has installed everywhere, then it's you who is the epitome of naivety.  If you are foolish enough to believe the fed gov has your interests at heart and are willing to allow that bunch of goons to do whatever they want, it becomes easy to say 'Welcome to the Soviet Union' or 'Welcome to the Corporate State', whichever suits your fancy, since without checks and balances, that's where we are headed.

It always makes me sad to see how the cows are willing to give up their self-determination for a little security.  As a parable, in my younger days, I spent some time riding line at a large ranch.  One time, during a fierce snowstorm, temperatures plummeted and I holed up in a line shack.  When the blizzard was over, I came out and continued riding the line.  I found one of those cows who thought security was paramount frozen solid, hiding behind a steel fencepost.  That sort of security, sir, is exactly what you want.

Edited by RabidCat, 17 July 2013 - 02:51 PM.


#319    jugoso

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:40 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 July 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

In the end I think loyalty to one's nation, especially if one has taken an oath to that effect,


Bingo! Don´t elected officials take some sort of oath to uphold the constitution? And if the elected officials aren´t aware of the program, just who exactly is driving the bus?

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 July 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

I see nothing in the information we have gotten that we didn't know already.

Perhaps some suspected that the US government was involved in illegal "data-gathering", but until Snowden provided the "smoking gun" it was just speculation. If I had posted in the conspiracy thread what Snowden disclosed a couple of months ago,   I´m sure some would have called me  paranoid and laughed at my post. Not so anymore. Snowden is as much of a traitor to the US as are those that were secretly involved in such a vast network of data-collection IMO.

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#320    spartan max2

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:19 AM

Wanted to post this somewhere lol


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#321    Raptor Witness

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:51 AM

View Postspartan max2, on 21 July 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Wanted to post this somewhere lol
It's worse than that ...

View PostRaptor Witness, on 12 June 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

What's worse, lying to the American people about a private affair in the Oval Office, or lying about the government sucking the private affairs out of every American?

How can one white lie under oath lead to an impeachment hearing for a sitting President, while a giant black lie under oath is ignored as if it's nothing to worry about?

Can the private affairs of hundreds of millions be valued so much less than for one man?

How can the spirit of the law be tilted so greatly, as to not to be viewed as an example of tyranny?

If we will allow this disparity in our judgment, without so much as a whimper, then what will keep us safe from another great liar, like Hitler?

Tyranny

noun
1. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.
2. the government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler.
3. a state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler.
4. oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler.
5. undue severity or harshness.





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#322    Detective Mystery 2015

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:14 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 July 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

have a nuclear weapon destroy a major US city and see how you feel

That sounds like Cheney justifying the second Iraq War. You might as well say that "it's for the children".

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#323    Raptor Witness

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:04 AM

It looks like Mr. Snowden will be leaving for Russian soil soon, possibly by Wednesday, according to his attorney.

I wonder if that means the Guardian Newspaper has to keep its mouth shut, and will they be willing to do this to help accommodate Mr. Snowden's temporary asylum request in Russia?

That might give the NSA time to get back on its broomstick.



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#324    Yamato

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:34 AM

His attorney even referenced the fact that the US government tortures people.   Like we never said that one wasn't going to come back around and bite us on the ass!  Who wants to boil to death in an iron cauldron in Uzbekistan after all?   Not me either.

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#325    Jessica Christ

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

Edward Snowden if anything like past defectors will live to regret his decisions.


Snowden May Wish He Went To Jail In America If He Accepts Putin’s Offer Of Russian Exile

Quote

Six months after the Soviet Union ceased to exist, the American defector Victor Norris Hamilton surfaced in a Russian mental hospital. He had been missing for more than 20 years. The 75-year-old former cryptologist for the National Security Agency had defected to the Soviet Union in 1963. His family was shocked to learn of his whereabouts, noting that they had last had contact with him in 1973. They were equally surprised to learn that Hamilton was committed to hospital in a Moscow suburb in 1971 where he disappeared for 20 years.

*snip*

FP details the stories of agents like William Martin and Bernon Mitchell; NSA cryptologists who defected to Moscow in the 1960s where they married and worked for a time, but had trouble adjusting. “According to the NSA’s in-house report on the incident, both men asked to leave Russia within a year of their defection, ‘but no country would accept them,’” writes FP’s J. Dana Stuster. “Mitchell died in Moscow, but in time Martin made it as far as Tijuana, where he died in 1987.”

The story of CIA defector Edward Lee Howard, as told by the KGB agent who knew him before his death, described a similar inability to adjust. In spite of the Soviet Union’s efforts to provide Howard with a comfortable life in exile, the KGB agent told the New York Times after his death that “life was not sweet for him here.”

Glenn Michael Souther, a U.S. Navy photographer, disappeared from the United States in 1986 and resurfaced in the Soviet Union in 1988. It was soon discovered that Souther was immediately embraced by Soviet military authorities and made a counter-intelligence agent. Initially suspected of being a CIA double agent sent to Russia to spy for the Americans, he was later determined to be a genuine defector and earned the rank of Major in the KGB. Souther settled down near Moscow and married a Russian woman who taught English at a Moscow University. They had a child together. The outwardly comfortable appearance of the life that Souther built for himself in the Soviet Union made the news that the 32-year-old suffocated himself in 1989 with his own car’s exhaust even more difficult to accept.

“His nervous system could not stand the pressure” of life in the U.S.S.R.,”KGB chief Vladimir Kryuchkov told People Magazine. “The Soviets “probably took away the only thing that made him really special—his crazy free spirit,” a college friend of Souther’s recalled.

*snip*

http://www.mediaite....-russian-exile/


Edward Snowden Risks Sharing Fate of Kim Philby, Guy Burgess & More

Quote

What kind of future does the NSA leaker face if he gets asylum in Russia or another country? If the experience of past defectors—alcoholism, suicide attempts, mental illness—is any guide, it looks grim.

Quote

Kim Philby might have told him so, if Philby ever told anyone the truth about anything. One of the Cambridge Five, a communist spy ring of upper-crust Englishmen that included Guy Burgess, Anthony Blunt, Donald Maclean, and a possible fifth person never identified, Philby spied for the Russians throughout World War II and for years thereafter.

*snip*

By the time the public learned of the details that prompted Philby’s defection to the Soviet Union, he’d been ensconced in Moscow for almost five years, where he lived until his death in 1988. He claimed to be unrepentant, saying he missed only some friends, Colman’s mustard, and Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce. In fact, he was kept under virtual house arrest, as the Russians were afraid he might try to return to England. He also drank heavily and attempted suicide at least once. He had gone to Moscow with the assumption that he would be named a colonel in the KGB, a promise that, if indeed made, was never kept.


At least Philby wanted to defect. Evidence suggests that Guy Burgess believed he was only helping Donald Maclean escape when they disappeared in 1951, but the KGB had no intention of ever letting Burgess fall back into English hands. Upon surfacing in the Soviet Union in 1956, he spent the rest of his short life—he died in 1963 at 52—descending ever deeper into alcoholism.

*snip*

George Koval, an American scientist posthumously honored by Vladimir Putin for his work in penetrating the Manhattan Project and ferrying secrets to the Russians that sped their development of the atomic bomb by years, was perhaps the most realistic defector of all. But then, Koval had been to Russia already. He was born in the U.S. to Russian-Jewish parents, and in 1924, when he was 10, the family returned to the Soviet Union as part of the development known as the “Jewish Autonomous Region,” a Soviet settlement project that supposedly mirrored the Zionist movement in Palestine. By the time Koval returned to the U.S. in 1940, he was a communist spy. And a good one. He was never caught. After World War II he returned to Russia, where he got a low-level teaching job. He never lived well or saw honors in his lifetime, but he was thankful, he said, “that I did not find myself in a Gulag, as might have happened.” A realist defector—who knew?

A handful of American soldiers defected to North Korea during the Korean War, and nearly all lived to regret it. Forced to live together, the men were made to spend hours memorizing and reciting speeches by Kim Il Sung. In propaganda films, they were made to play dumb, evil Americans.

*snip*

http://www.thedailyb...rgess-more.html


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—George Santayana

Edited by The world needs you, 23 July 2013 - 07:51 PM.





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