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Tantalising Testimony


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#3316    Hazzard

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

View Postzoser, on 09 October 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Steady on Haz; it's far from proven.  If you feel it has been then show me.  The jury is still very much out on Adamski.

Fot the love of &%#¤",... Then what about some of the other liers, what about Billy Meier. There was a time when people believed he was telling the truth.

Then there came a time (now) when he was debunked. What ticked me off was zosers "logic" that debunked frauds like Billy Meier was working with the government all along, instead of seeing these charlatans for what they really are.

Snake oil sales men stealing money from the gullible.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#3317    bee

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:18 PM

View Postzoser, on 09 October 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

  The jury is still very much out on Adamski.

And on Bob Lazar....IMO


#3318    Hazzard

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

Is the jury "in" on any of these clows??

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#3319    synchronomy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:46 PM

View Postbee, on 09 October 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

And on Bob Lazar....IMO

I've read a lot about Lazar.  Watched many video's of him speaking.
My opinion is he is a hustler and a conman.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#3320    Slave2Fate

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:46 AM

View PostHazzard, on 09 October 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Fot the love of &%#¤",... Then what about some of the other liers, what about Billy Meier. There was a time when people believed he was telling the truth.

Then there came a time (now) when he was debunked. What ticked me off was zosers "logic" that debunked frauds like Billy Meier was working with the government all along, instead of seeing these charlatans for what they really are.

Snake oil sales men stealing money from the gullible.

Bingo!

I know it's been said many times before but as long as the field is riddled with these charlatans then the world will always look at UFOlogy as woo woo nonsense. Those serious about the field need to hold their 'proponents' to some sort of accountability.

Edited by Slave2Fate, 10 October 2012 - 01:49 AM.

"You want to discuss plausibility then you have to accept reality." -Mattshark

"Don't argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience." -Obviousman

You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#3321    1963

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:57 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 10 October 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Bingo!

I know it's been said many times before but as long as the field is riddled with these charlatans then the world will always look at UFOlogy as woo woo nonsense. Those serious about the field need to hold their 'proponents' to some sort of accountability.

I cannot argue with that S2F!

The liars and charlatans must be eliminated on 'Both Sides'..I repeat 'Both Sides' of the ETH debate as quickly and unreservedly as possible!  :tu:

Cheers Buddy.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

#3322    Slave2Fate

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:09 AM

View Post1963, on 10 October 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

I cannot argue with that S2F!

The liars and charlatans must be eliminated on 'Both Sides'..I repeat 'Both Sides' of the ETH debate as quickly and unreservedly as possible!  :tu:

Cheers Buddy.

I know that there are those among the skeptic crowd who like nothing more than to deride and belittle UFOlogy as a whole and they need to be singled out as well. I myself have been guilty of knee jerk responses from time to time but I try to be as objective as possible and argue the merits of the case with regards to critical though and logic as much as possible. Honestly although there have been some less than civil exchanges over the years I think that the skeptics here at UM are pretty level headed and mostly objective with those that are the most acerbic weeded out shortly by Mods. In relation to other sites, UM is a pretty easy going environment. :tu:

"You want to discuss plausibility then you have to accept reality." -Mattshark

"Don't argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience." -Obviousman

You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#3323    quillius

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:35 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 09 October 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

Ahw, good to know, you are biased. Duly noted.

PS Just wondering, what you are balancing of, what kind of see-saw?

I didnt say I was biased :)

I said we take on biased stances.


p.s do you really need the see-saw analogy explained? :alien:


#3324    quillius

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:43 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 09 October 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

And what CIA would come up with... Mockingbird... Brilliant... Good work McG. Nation is grateful.

Let me get this straight BMK so we dont have a misunderstanding, you are basically saying project Mockingbird never existed, right?

View Postbmk1245, on 09 October 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

OK, lets make that straight: UFO is UFO, not ET, maybe you think E is equal UF and T is equal O, but in my dictionary its not, period. And yeah, woo woos deserve laughed at.

and let me ask you one more thing, anyone who carries any sort of belief on the ETH is a woo woo in your opinion, right?


#3325    Hazzard

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:18 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 10 October 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Bingo!

I know it's been said many times before but as long as the field is riddled with these charlatans then the world will always look at UFOlogy as woo woo nonsense. Those serious about the field need to hold their 'proponents' to some sort of accountability.

Thats what I was trying to say,... sorry for the rant earlier. :lol:

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#3326    bee

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:35 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 09 October 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

I've read a lot about Lazar.  Watched many video's of him speaking.
My opinion is he is a hustler and a conman.


My opinion is that he is on the level.....


But because he claims to have worked on reverse engineering 'ET' craft...he is someone who is trashed at every opportunity...

basically the message is...'Don't believe Lazar'....

But I have decided that I do believe him (as much as you can believe anyone who you have never met)...


Boyd Bushman, senior research scientist for Lockheed Martin Skunk Works takes him seriously...

Extract from an interview with David Sereda...





.


#3327    bmk1245

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:39 PM

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

[...]
p.s do you really need the see-saw analogy explained? :alien:
Please do :whistle:


View Postquillius, on 10 October 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Let me get this straight BMK so we dont have a misunderstanding, you are basically saying project Mockingbird never existed, right?
[...]
So, cover-uping by allowing printing countless articles in numerous newspapers, publishing countless UFO related books? Rrright. If CIA employs dumbbells, they should had consulted with Glavlit how to run things properly.


View Postquillius, on 10 October 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

[...]and let me ask you one more thing, anyone who carries any sort of belief on the ETH is a woo woo in your opinion, right?
Those with UFO=ET claims.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).

#3328    quillius

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:49 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 10 October 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Please do :whistle:

ok
see-saw is the case
weight on one side (i.e. you and a biased stance)
so now I cannot do the case justice by sitting in the middle of seesaw as the bias that you entered with means it needs re-balancing, hence I take the opposite biased stance.....if you are not there I sit in the middle with no bias. Its basically to counter balance your bias.
:innocent:

View Postbmk1245, on 10 October 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:



So, cover-uping by allowing printing countless articles in numerous newspapers, publishing countless UFO related books? Rrright. If CIA employs dumbbells, they should had consulted with Glavlit how to run things properly.

thats one way of avoiding the question......though the question still stands, straight answer would be nice :alien:

View Postbmk1245, on 10 October 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:


Those with UFO=ET claims.

what about those with beliefs as opposed to claims?


#3329    synchronomy

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:18 PM

View Postbee, on 10 October 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

My opinion is that he is on the level.....


But because he claims to have worked on reverse engineering 'ET' craft...he is someone who is trashed at every opportunity...

basically the message is...'Don't believe Lazar'....

But I have decided that I do believe him (as much as you can believe anyone who you have never met)...


Boyd Bushman, senior research scientist for Lockheed Martin Skunk Works takes him seriously...

Extract from an interview with David Sereda...





.
You will never change my opinion of Lazar.
I've seen that entire interview with Boyd Bushman.  Many of the demonstrations he performs in it are basic physics, nothing new.
His claim that anti-gravity is as simple as jamming two magnets together that normally repel is absolute nonsense.
Do you actually think Skunkworks would permit a retired employee to be talking about their work or handing out photos or engineering diagrams of projects they have worked on?

Although I was born at night...it wasn't last night.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#3330    zoser

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:25 PM

View Postbee, on 10 October 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

My opinion is that he is on the level.....


But because he claims to have worked on reverse engineering 'ET' craft...he is someone who is trashed at every opportunity...

basically the message is...'Don't believe Lazar'....

But I have decided that I do believe him (as much as you can believe anyone who you have never met)...


Boyd Bushman, senior research scientist for Lockheed Martin Skunk Works takes him seriously...

Extract from an interview with David Sereda...





.

His mentor was none other than Edward Teller.  Some feel that this explains his appointment to area 51/S4 and why he has never been taken to task regarding his disclosures.

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