216 replies to this topic

[Magicjax]

I'm basically just making this post out of curiosity. I know we all have different experiences in life and there's more then one path of experiences that can lead people to the same conclusions. But I'm curious as to how common the path I took from being a theist to a non-theist is. I have talked to a few atheist about this that went through similar phases that I went through, but I'm just curious as to how common it really is. 

Another side thought to this curiosity is that judging by some of the things I've heard or read people say, even here in this section of UM, makes me wonder if some of them are  in one of the phases I've been in on my road to being an atheist. This makes me wonder if some of them/you might eventually end up an atheist. Like I said, I know we're all different and I'm not suggestion everyone will come to the same conclusion I did. But I'm still curious. 

So here's the path I took in a nut shell. 

I didn't grow up in a heavily religious household. We didn't talk about it very often but it was just an unspoken issue that we all assumed we agreed on. That although we weren't heavy church goers and didn't pray before our meals. From time to time it would come up enough that we all just knew that we all believed in god. 

So, in my teens I started to question religion. I didn't like going to church in the least. I had never enjoyed any of the church services I had ever attended when I went with relatives or friends. I just knew I believed in god. 

This brings me to the first phase of my process of eventually becoming an atheist. This is the phase when I'd say, and think, that I don't fallow any religion but I do believe in god. This was the phase where I'd explain it with phrases such as "god lives in me" and "I am my own steeple". It actually annoyed me in these days if anyone gave my religious belief any kind of title such as baptist. I felt no connection to any of these sects of Christianity. I just believed god existed. It just didn't have anything to do with the story's that god was connected to. Basically I believed in god but felt the bible was a man made book. 

Over time, I'd say in my mid 20's. My feelings where that I'm starting not to believe there really is a god. It was a kind of inner battle of the facts that I really want to believe in god, but I saw, felt and thought of no real reason to believe god really does exist. My mind was thinking I really want to believe in god, but I just don't. At this phase I would basically describe myself as agnostic. The "I don't know if there's a god" pretty much described my thought during that time. I saw no reason to believe in god but at the same time I really wanted to. I would rather believe there is a heaven I will go to someday and a hell I never want to see. Admittedly the fear of going to hell was much stronger in my mind as the thought of making it to heaven though. Not going to heaven just meant I'd probably continue like I do right now in the real world. That's not so bad. But the fear of going to hell was a very strong pull toward at least not denying there is a god. Thinking "I don't know" seemed a little safer then outright denying gods existence. So basically I was agnostic. 

Then in about my middle 30's I basically came to a conclusion that I just don't believe in god. I don't believe a word of this book that suppose up be our only clue that there even is a god. I realized that religion was the only place I've ever been in my life where I battled with myself to try and believe in something that makes absolutely no sense to me. I would never put effort like that in any other area when nothing has given me even a glimpse of a reason to believe it. I realized that even if there was a god, which is suppose to be all knowing and all powerful, would be an obvious truth. In short I simply stopped arguing with myself and realized I just don't believe in god. 

It would seem that would be the end of my road to being an atheist. Well it basically is because at that moment that I consciously truly believed god doesn't exist. In that moment I became an atheist by definition. But that's not where my road ends. 

So, I'm now an atheist. But I didn't call myself one. When the subject came up for the first few years I didn't like it when the subject came up and I said I didn't believe in god and they called me an atheist. My response was, "I don't care enough about the topic to have any title". I basically didn't like anything that was remotely linked to religion. Period. Atheism isn't religion. It's the opposite of religion. But it was still connected to religion. You can't be an atheist in a world that has no religion. So I didn't like to be connected to it in anyway. 

This brings me to the phase I'm in right now. And right now I'm proud to call myself an atheist. Do what happened to change my mind about that label?  Basically, places like this section of UM is a big part of the reason. 

I discovered that's there are many more people in the world that have similar thought about religion as I do. We'll all have various opinions about certain aspects. But I realized there are more people then I thought that dint believe in god. That's the only common ground all atheist have though. When I discovered and meet more people that don't believe in god I was pretty surprised. I felt more open to speak my mind about it. I mean it's one thing to just know there are people out there that don't believe in god like I do. Quite another to actually be able to talk about it with someone else. Especially when we discover that we do have different opinions but they all lead to the "atheist" conclusion. 

So I'm now in a phase where I'm glad to be able to talk to others that feel the same way I do as far as not believing in god and all the issues attached to it in the society I live in. I don't go around talking about it in my day to day life but when it does come up I actually enjoy the feeling of freely speaking my mind and not having to just pretend to agree with someone because society for the most part tells us were suppose to. And when the topic does come up and I'm apparently the only atheist in a group. I feel it's important to be open and honest with my views because who knows. Maybe one of them is struggling with it like I did and will learn that they've found someone else that doesn't believe in god that isn't afraid to say it out loud and they could, if they wished, talk to me about it. 

So now I'm openly atheist. Proud of it and if anyone asks me about it I'll tell them. I'd hope I'd at least open their eyes and see that you don't need religion for all the things most people think can only be found through religion. When it comes up I try to show them my point of view and weather they agree with me or not they'll at least learn that at least this atheist is a nice person, has morals and is happy without god. 

Anyway, although this is a kind of long post it really is an "in a nut shell" version of my road to becoming an atheist. I'm curious if anybody you took a similar path. I know not everyone went through the exact process. But I am curious. 

[Seeker79]

Your story is common for both atheists, and Those that continue on and evenchually embrace an open spirituality. There is an area of thuoght that atheism is actually a 3rd stage in spiritual development.  I'm not sure labels like that go any good. Your story is similar to mine, but I'm a little further along another road.

Thanks for sharing.

[Arbenol68]

We're all born atheists so you could argue that you've just been on a trip and have now returned home.

[ZaraKitty]

Religion was never a big part of my family life growing up, my grandmother was devout however. I've always been on the fence with god, he might exist he might not. Whatever, I don't care but I recently got the view of disliking god if he did exist, I was raped multiple times by two different people and the only solice my devout grandmother gave me was 'well thats what you get for hanging around boys.' then proceeded to give me Christianity booklets about why I should love god and all that. I refuse to love a god that would allow such things to happen to me, and I don't deny his existence, but he will never have my love. I've been told it's part of his 'big plan' for me. I had to hold myself back from smacking someone out.

[Seeker79]

Arbenol68, on 10 June 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

We're all born atheists so you could argue that you've just been on a trip and have now returned home.

Born atheists?

[Arbenol68]

Seeker79, on 10 June 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

Born atheists?

That's what it says.

[Seeker79]

Arbenol68, on 10 June 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

That's what it says.

I guess if you cling to the idea that atheism is a non-belief.... Then tie that into young children not having any real beliefs until they are taught. That's a very inacurate analogy. Children have not had time to develop beliefs. Atheists quite obviously have. At young ages, reguardless of what they have been taught, they engage in plenty of magical thinking... Very unatheist like.

I have a non belief that atheism is a non belief. I have a non belief in the axiom of materialism. Yes built on actual logic not wishful thinking.  

I might consider a true agnostic stand point as a non belief.... Ultimately it's the only reasonable option, but atheists returning to a child like or new born like state. Not hardly.

[Arbenol68]

Seeker79, on 10 June 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

I guess if you cling to the idea that atheism is a non-belief....

Yes

Seeker79, on 10 June 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

Then tie that into young children not having any real beliefs until they are taught.

That's right

Seeker79, on 10 June 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

I have a non belief that atheism is a non belief. I have a non belief in the axiom of materialism. Yes built on actual logic not wishful thinking.  
I might consider a true agnostic stand point as a non belief.... Ultimately it's the only reasonable option, but atheists returning to a child like or new born like state. Not hardly.

You think too much.
It wasn't meant to be taken entirely seriously.

[Mr Walker]

Arbenol68, on 10 June 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

We're all born atheists so you could argue that you've just been on a trip and have now returned home.

I wish people would stop making this statement. It is factually untrue. We are all born without belief or disbelief but a potential for both.

Thats not atheism, which is an expressed belief that god(s) does/do, not exist.
Such a belief has to be, and is, formed using the same processes as theism is formed as a belief structure. This construction of belief has been demonstrated by the measurement of neurological processes in the human mind. (not particularly in religious terms but in the construction of any belief system.)
No one's first words or thoughts are, "Gee gods dont exist"

We "all" as a consequence of the nature of our sapience and neurology develop a belief in god(s), and or learn to construct the concept/ idea of gods as a deus  ex machina  at a very early age, (as we learn to speak) regardless of language, background, or culture. Then we have to be taught ,or must learn, NOT to believe in them. If anything, belief is the default position of the human mind, because it is where the way we think  first naturally leads us.

Edited by Mr Walker, 10 June 2012 - 04:21 AM.

[Purifier]

Magicjax, on 10 June 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

I'm basically just making this post out of curiosity. I know we all have different experiences in life and there's more then one path of experiences that can lead people to the same conclusions. But I'm curious as to how common the path I took from being a theist to a non-theist is...................................

.......................................................................*snip*..........................................................................................


Anyway, although this is a kind of long post it really is an "in a nut shell" version of my road to becoming an atheist. I'm curious if anybody you took a similar path. I know not everyone went through the exact process. But I am curious.

Actually started out the same way you did, Magicjax. Yep, believed in God and fell under the label as a Baptist, but didn't really like the religion. Then, later on, became an atheist for a good while in my late 20's and early 30's, then I eventually became what some people today may call a Autotheist. Yet I try not to identify with labels, including that one (Autotheist), which is a funny thing for me, but it's one of my philosophies in life. Anyway, came to the conclusion after many years of research on the early church and watching how religions treat non-religious individuals in this modern era, that God was never the problem, just religion itself and the people who molded that religion (sometimes I call them organized religion) into their worldview as to what they believe is right and wrong. Then I figured out the most important thing of all, concerning these religions, if they don't specifically observe the "Golden Rule" and rather believe or have more in the "eye for an eye, tooth for tooth" mentality, then they really don't have a loving God and their religion is corrupt. Also, there is one other thing that Gandhi said, which made all the perfect sense to me in the world "God has no religion".

And finally, out of all of this...I had also come to another conclusion not too long ago, that Reincarnation, Karma and the "Golden Rule" all go hand in hand, like a triangle, which explains (to me at least) all the $%#t that happens in this world; especially with people. And why we need to better ourselves, no matter what our beliefs or non-beliefs may be.

[libstaK]

Seeker79, on 10 June 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

I guess if you cling to the idea that atheism is a non-belief.... Then tie that into young children not having any real beliefs until they are taught. That's a very inacurate analogy. Children have not had time to develop beliefs. Atheists quite obviously have. At young ages, reguardless of what they have been taught, they engage in plenty of magical thinking... Very unatheist like.

I have a non belief that atheism is a non belief. I have a non belief in the axiom of materialism. Yes built on actual logic not wishful thinking.  

I might consider a true agnostic stand point as a non belief.... Ultimately it's the only reasonable option, but atheists returning to a child like or new born like state. Not hardly.

Environment informs our beliefs that is well established.  If you were born into a tribe of canabalistic head hunters, you will grow into a canabalistic head hunter unless some change in your environment occurs and you are exposed to an alternative line of potential.

There is an entire tribe in the islands of Vanuatu that worships Prince Philip as a God due to a change in their environment for instance:

http://www.neatorama...-prince-philip/

[Arbenol68]

Mr Walker, on 10 June 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

I wish people would stop making this statement. It is factually untrue. We are all born without belief or disbelief but a potential for both.

See above. Some people are very sensitive tonight.

Mr Walker, on 10 June 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

If anything, belief is the default position of the human mind, because it is where the way we think  first naturally leads us.

Having took exception to my post, you've gone and done the same thing.

[Seeker79]

libstaK, on 10 June 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Environment informs our beliefs that is well established.  If you were born into a tribe of canabalistic head hunters, you will grow into a canabalistic head hunter unless some change in your environment occurs and you are exposed to an alternative line of potential.

There is an entire tribe in the islands of Vanuatu that worships Prince Philip as a God due to a change in their environment for instance:

http://www.neatorama...-prince-philip/

I was not arguing that... That's all perfectly reasonable. But this is not the state that atheists operate from. Not at all.

[Seeker79]

Arbenol68, on 10 June 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

See above. Some people are very sensitive tonight.



Having took exception to my post, you've gone and done the same thing.

Ehhhhh? Not sensitive. Board Mabey. It's not sensitive to challenge posts that we don't agree with on um. It's just what we do. It's entertainment. Better than television not as good as a good book... Somewhere in between.

[ZaraKitty]

We're not born with faith in god already inside us, it's usually parents that indoctrinate their children. So I spose we're all born athiests.