66 replies to this topic

[Rafterman]

orangepeaceful79, on 18 January 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

How long have we been hearing this, now guys?  Something on the order of a couple years at least, yeah?  Always upcoming this, upcoming that.  I'll believe it when I see it come up in a reputable, peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Leonard Nimoy said proof was right around the corner in 1978 on In Search Of.

Here's an interesting piece on "bigfoot" sounds by Ben Radford.

http://www.livescien...nge-sounds.html

Interesting point that such screams should make bigfoot EASIER to find, particularly given the high-tech gear arrayed against him/her by such outfits as the Finding Bigfoot crew.  With the right gear you could easily triangulate in on a screaming bigfoot within a few minutes and once you got an idea of where he/she hung out, installing sound activated cameras is quite simple as well.

[QuiteContrary]

Rafterman, on 29 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Leonard Nimoy said proof was right around the corner in 1978 on In Search Of.

Here's an interesting piece on "bigfoot" sounds by Ben Radford.

http://www.livescien...nge-sounds.html

Interesting point that such screams should make bigfoot EASIER to find, particularly given the high-tech gear arrayed against him/her by such outfits as the Finding Bigfoot crew.  With the right gear you could easily triangulate in on a screaming bigfoot within a few minutes and once you got an idea of where he/she hung out, installing sound activated cameras is quite simple as well.

Good article!

But, again, this kind of logic focuses on finding  a bigfoot, a questionable goal for some footers.

Imo, reluctance in finding a bigfoot is not because a bigfoot discovery would put some out of business. There would be plenty to cash in on for footers and bigfoot experts if a creature is found.

Imo, the problem is they know debunking (using  technology more productively) in say, investigating bigfoot sounds, would destroy their case even more.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 29 January 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[scowl]

QuiteContrary, on 29 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

But, again, this kind of logic focuses on finding  a bigfoot, a questionable goal for some footers.

Why?

[scowl]

Rafterman, on 29 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Leonard Nimoy said proof was right around the corner in 1978 on In Search Of.

Declarations like this one back then convinced thousands of people like me that proof was on the way.

I know absence of proof is not proof of absence but all we've gotten since 1978 is a bunch of hoaxes, some laughable cable shows, and the Patterson footage analyzed a hundred times.

[QuiteContrary]

scowl, on 29 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Why?

Because, imo, for some footers it is just a  way of fooling/controling people, or attempting to make money, or garner a following or earn some kind of power or prestige in their circle.
Imo, some footers do not buy into the existence of bigfoot any more than I do.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 29 January 2013 - 07:07 PM.

[Rafterman]

scowl, on 29 January 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Declarations like this one back then convinced thousands of people like me that proof was on the way.

I know absence of proof is not proof of absence but all we've gotten since 1978 is a bunch of hoaxes, some laughable cable shows, and the Patterson footage analyzed a hundred times.

Exactly - all the while technology has gotten better and better, more accessible, and vastly more affordable.

Folks in 1978 couldn't dream of the technology that I can walk into the woods with in my pocket today.

[bfbeliever]

No Bootstring is just a friend of ours. I would never post it because i was nervous about being bashed for my beliefs or experiences. It was just me, my husband, and whatever made the noises. I believe in them and we tried to find other answers such as maybe campers or someone but in the daylight the area is just so steep  it would be very hard to camp there. Not to mention the temps were in the single digits the night we recorded it.

[joc]

bfbeliever, on 30 January 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

No Bootstring is just a friend of ours. I would never post it because i was nervous about being bashed for my beliefs or experiences. It was just me, my husband, and whatever made the noises. I believe in them and we tried to find other answers such as maybe campers or someone but in the daylight the area is just so steep  it would be very hard to camp there. Not to mention the temps were in the single digits the night we recorded it.

Was ya'll drunk?

[orangepeaceful79]

bfbeliever, on 30 January 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

No Bootstring is just a friend of ours. I would never post it because i was nervous about being bashed for my beliefs or experiences. It was just me, my husband, and whatever made the noises. I believe in them and we tried to find other answers such as maybe campers or someone but in the daylight the area is just so steep  it would be very hard to camp there. Not to mention the temps were in the single digits the night we recorded it.

I think the point that several other posters have tried to make is that if you were out and about in the dark, frigid night, why is it so hard to imagine that there would be someone else out there.  I'm not bashing you or anyone for what you believe.  My issue is that I have a tough time believing in a giant man-ape that breaks all the rules of nature that would cause it to leave behind evidence of its existence.  The other problem I have with ear-witness reports of Bigfoot "calls" is that we've never caught a Bigfoot or studied an actual live specimen of one, which means that we actually have no true idea of what their "calls" sound like.  

Which means that you don't know what made the sound you heard and since Bigfoot's existence is as of yet unverified, it makes WAY more sense to look for known causes than to jump to explanations based on things we have no actual knowledge of.  Its illogical.

[scowl]

QuiteContrary, on 29 January 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Because, imo, for some footers it is just a  way of fooling/controling people, or attempting to make money, or garner a following or earn some kind of power or prestige in their circle.
Imo, some footers do not buy into the existence of bigfoot any more than I do.

I was questioning why the focus shouldn't be on finding a Bigfoot. Are you saying that since this will never happen, it's a pointless occupation for these people?

[orangepeaceful79]

scowl, on 30 January 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

I was questioning why the focus shouldn't be on finding a Bigfoot. Are you saying that since this will never happen, it's a pointless occupation for these people?

I think - at least as I understood QC's point is that it isn't a pointless occupation for those indiviuduals quite frankly because there is a fair amount of money to made off of Bigfoot.  The thing is that in the long run, Bigfoot is worth more cumulatively if we NEVER find him, because skilled individuals can keep duping new generations with pseudo-evidence and keep them buying BF merchandising.  

Certain individuals have doubtless realized this and now their objective isn't to actually find a Bigfoot but to keep the search going as long as possible in order to ride the gravy train.  

For those folks the worst possible outcome would be that a Bigfoot would be actually found, because then their whole career would be up in smoke.  Because once a BF is found (unlikely as it is) then the real work would transition to actual biologists - of which few cryptozoologists actually are.

Edited by orangepeaceful79, 30 January 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[CakeOrDeath]

I love the "if you don't believe, why are you on this site" arguement.  This site, and some of it's posters have been a boon for me personally.  It has greatly increased a fairly mundane person's ability to think "critically" and apply even some basic tenets of scientific method to events that happen even in my day to day life.

I've looked at some other sites and it's laughable.  The funny thing is, I log here daily, hoping one day to see that post that, even after careful consideration by people like Mulder, Boony, Sakari, Hazzard (just to name a few, sorry if I left anyone off) we're still left scratchy our heads wondering, or better yet....we get that one gem thread with REAL evidence of something!  I don't care what, it can be aliens, footy, angels, psi-ballz, frankly any would be awesome.

I think the common mistake "believers" make, is thinking that we "skeptics" don't want this stuff to be true, that is sooo far from the reality of it all.  I can't speak for all these smart folks, but I would be willing to bet they would agree, nothing would be cooler than for some paranormal phenomena to be proven true in our life time.

So yeah, I guess that's the long answer as to why people like Orange are here.

Edited by CakeOrDeath, 30 January 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[orangepeaceful79]

CakeOrDeath, on 30 January 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

I love the "if you don't believe, why are you on this site" arguement.  This site, and some of it's posters have been a boon for me personally.  It has greatly increased a fairly mundane person's ability to think "critically" and apply even some basic tenets of scientific method to events that happen even in my day to day life.

I've looked at some other sites and it's laughable.  The funny thing is, I log here daily, hoping one day to see that post that, even after careful consideration by people like Mulder, Boony, Sakari, Hazzard (just to name a few, sorry if I left anyone off) we're still left scratchy our heads wondering, or better yet....we get that one gem thread with REAL evidence of something!  I don't care what, it can be aliens, footy, angels, psi-ballz, frankly any would be awesome.

I think the common mistake "believers" make, is thinking that we "skeptics" don't want this stuff to be true, that is sooo far from the reality of it all.  I can't speak for all these smart folks, but I would be willing to bet they would agree, nothing would be cooler than for some paranormal phenomena to be proven true in our life time.

So yeah, I guess that's the long answer as to why people like Orange are here.

I couldn't agree more.  I grew up fascinated by crypto and paranormal stuff.  I still am to a certain degree, though now my perspective is very different.  I personally would be thrilled if any one of these creatures or phenomenon were ever verified and vetted by science in order to establish some sort of objective truth concerning them.  That would make my day and then I would come back here and admit I was incorrect about whatever was proven.  

I have apologized and admitted error many times on these boards and I am a better person because of it.  

My message to believers would be to open yourselves up a little to skeptical perspectives.   I have done the same with the perspective of certain believers here on the site and have grown as a result.  There are many valid points to be seen around here, closing one's mind off to them for any reason is an obstacle to growth and knowledge.

[CakeOrDeath]

Way off topic, sorry Bootstrings, but my feeling in the "large crypto" department, is that the ocean is the one place we can still find some pretty neat and new stuff.  I mean we are just now starting to get glimpses of giant squids after all these years.  And scientists have been suprised by the sizes of some deep dwelling sharks they have found.

I think there are still new species and critters out there, just nothing as cool as an apeman or pack of dinos that somehow escaped extinction and then carried on undetected all this time.

It is fun to think about though.

[QuiteContrary]

scowl, on 30 January 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

I was questioning why the focus shouldn't be on finding a Bigfoot. Are you saying that since this will never happen, it's a pointless occupation for these people?

Thank you orangepeaceful!
And just to add, I said for some footers it is a questionable goal, because it is not their goal at all. Imo, some "believers" don't believe in bigfoot anymore than I do and they know it.
Also, for some, the attraction is strictly spiritual, or about comradery, or a few other  things than some actual hardcore belief in bigfoot.

For others, if they want to search with the intent of finding a bigfoot one day, have at it!

As I've said before, at any given point in time there will always be various levels of belief in the body of bigfoot believers (sans a bigfoot body).
It doesn't matter what I think about their actions...you will always have searchers, and experts, and authors, and newbies, and turncoats...

And as NightWalker always succinctly points out, bigfootery is fun and interesting and definitely entertaining! It's a hobby for some of us to discuss, and read about, and look at the "evidence" and even to watch a TV show or two and to get to know the players and current events. So, without those out searching, I wouldn't have this hobby and this Forum of fun debate.  

I looked for bigfoot for a brief time in my life, when I thought a specific group of footers I was dealing with at the time who were telling me facts and stories "couldn't wouldn't lie".

For me ghost hunting and cryptid searches may seem pointless, yes. But, I cannot identify with someone who has had an encounter of some kind. I can't fault them for the effect it had on them. I can't tell them that their personal search is pointless. No one can, really.

I can look over their evidence, and discuss their encounters and give my personal opinion, though.

Okay, raves and fireworks and using teen girls all as bait to attract bigfoot? Yes, I will say that is way off the hiking trail, imo.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 30 January 2013 - 06:41 PM.