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[Merged]Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon


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#16    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:19 AM

View Posttipotep, on 10 October 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

I will quote Kerry Packer after his NDE ....

Doctor - Kerry are you ok ?

Kerry - Yeah , but I have good news and bad news .

Doctor - what news ?

Kerry - The good news is that there is no hell .

Doctor - And the bad news ?

Kerry - There's no heaven either .


TiP.
Nice job. That solves everything.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#17    Dying Seraph

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:20 AM

View PostZeta Reticulum, on 09 October 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon

A prominent scientist who had previously dismissed the possibility of the afterlife says he has reconsidered his belief after experiencing an out of body experience which has convinced him that heaven exists.

Dr Eben Alexander, a Harvard-educated neurosurgeon, fell into a coma for seven days in 2008 after contracting meningitis.
During his illness Dr Alexander says that the part of his brain which controls human thought and emotion "shut down" and that he then experienced "something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death."
In an essay for American magazine Newsweek, which he wrote to promote his book Proof of Heaven, Dr Alexander says he was met by a beautiful blue-eyed woman in a "place of clouds, big fluffy pink-white ones" and "shimmering beings".


The doctor asserts that the part of the brain that controls human thought and emotion shut down. However, studies have shown that if areas of the brain are not functioning properly, other areas of the brain take over (hence neuroplasticity). So one possibility could be that another part of his brain took over the function. Perhaps the "unconsious" took over. After all he was in a coma. Just possibilities.

SINcerely,
:devil:

Edited by Dying Seraph, 10 October 2012 - 01:23 AM.

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#18    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostDKO, on 10 October 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

The reason most people are sceptical is because they are not as gullible as a lot of people. Sceptics don't just believe everything they hear, they think about it rationally. This 'challenge' you have here can't really be proven true or false. There may be points to it that can be challenged from both sides but never proven either way.
Or... Skeptics have chosen an skeptical mode of processing information... Not at all wrong ,...,. Quit benificial actually... But taken to the dark extremes is just as bad as the fundamentalists.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#19    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:23 AM

View PostDying Seraph, on 10 October 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:



The doctor asserts that the part of the brain that controls human thought and emotion shut down. However, studies have shown that if areas of the brain are not functioning properly, other areas of the brain take over (hence neuroplasticity). So one possibility could be that another part of his brain took over the function. Another is the "unconsious" took over. After all he was in a coma. Just possibilities.

SINcerely,
:devil:
Well then how do you explaine brains that have been cooled below 60. .... Oh I know you will try.., they always do.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#20    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:25 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 10 October 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:


You were hallucinating. It is that simple. As real as it may have seemed, it was still very much a hallucination. Nothing more, nothing less.
Snip

Edited by Seeker79, 10 October 2012 - 01:26 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#21    Alienated Being

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:28 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Well then how do you explaine brains that have been cooled below 60. .... Oh I know you will try.., they always do.
And what's wrong with wanting a logical, scientific answer?

Clearly you embrace ignorance.


#22    Supersquatch

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:33 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Well then how do you explaine brains that have been cooled below 60. .... Oh I know you will try.., they always do.

http://en.wikipedia....itical_analysis

Such is the case of Pam Reynolds who is quite well known in the NDE community. She was having surgery performed to remove an aneurism from her brain. Her body was cooled to below 60 degrees F. and all of the blood was drained from her brain. Her EEG and brain stem response showed no activity, the definition of brain death in many states. During all of this, she reported rising from her body and seeing the operation performed below her. She also reported contact with "The Light" and many of her deceased relatives. Remember, she had no brain activity whatsoever. Even hallucinations register brain activity. It is interesting that upon recovering she recounted accurately many details of her operation, including conversations heard and a description of the surgical instruments. It has been postulated by a NDE skeptic, that Pam overheard the sounds in the room and generated a "mental map" of things around her. What the skeptic failed to acknowledge though is that instruments were inserted into Pam's ears that generated clicks to measure brain stem response. Her brain stem response throughout the surgery was inactive. If conversations were heard, her brain stem response should have registered them.

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#23    Dying Seraph

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:37 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Well then how do you explaine brains that have been cooled below 60. .... Oh I know you will try.., they always do.

Greetings Seeker,
I strongly suggest to you a book suggested to me regarding the power of neuro plasticity and the power of the brain called The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge. In regards to NDE another member presented a few good ones. ;)

SINcerely,
:devil:

Edited by Dying Seraph, 10 October 2012 - 01:38 AM.

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#24    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:44 AM

View PostDying Seraph, on 10 October 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:



Greetings Seeker,
I strongly suggest to you a book suggested to me regarding the power of neuro plasticity and the power of the brain called The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge. In regards to NDE another member presented a few good ones. ;)

SINcerely,
:devil:

I'll read it ... Thanks.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#25    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:47 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 10 October 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:


And what's wrong with wanting a logical, scientific answer?

Clearly you embrace ignorance.
Oh ab.... You have no real intelligent criticism... Only cynicism.  Once you wake up... To actual logic and criticism... You might hang with the big boys. That's not an insult, it's a challenge.

Edited by Seeker79, 10 October 2012 - 01:53 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#26    Alienated Being

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:54 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

Oh ab.... You have no real intllligent criticism... Only cynicism.  Once you wake up... To actual logic and criticism... You might hang with the big boys. That's not an insult, it's a challenge.
There is no logic in an afterlife, my friend. Nor is there logic in providing fantastical explanations for something that already has numerous scientific explanations available for it. It is not my fault that you wish to take the side of fantasy, instead of waking up and smelling the beautiful aroma of reality.


#27    Supersquatch

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:55 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

Oh ab.... You have no real intllligent criticism... Only cynicism.  Once you wake up... To actual logic and criticism... You might hang with the big boys. That's not an insult, it's a challenge.

To be fair, Dying Seraph stated a logical explanation for NDEs and your rebuttal concerned Pam Reynolds. I posted a link of arguments against Pam Reynold's case, though. So we're running in circles.

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#28    Dying Seraph

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:00 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

I'll read it ... Thanks.

Greetings Seeker,
In regards to the 60 degrees issue, there remains a issue. IF an individual is in a coma or declared brain dead that would be a matter of NDE books which another member presented. The one I suggested demonstrates the power of the brain. Just to clarify.
As this is not my profession and only recent hobby I can only speculate  and would leave this arguing madness to those more qualified. :yes:
I posit a question to you, if the brain is cooled or in that "frozen state" does the individual still not feel? They are paralyzed is the impression I get. I could be wrong however if they are in a frozen state it wouldn't negate the brain from having some sort of activity. Again I'll leave it up to those with the qualifications to discuss such.

Edit: This article makes good arguments for spiritual-soul and consciousness in the brain.
Scientist: Mind Continues After Brain Dies
REUTERS Limited
June 29 - A British scientist studying heart attack patients says he is finding evidence that suggests consciousness may continue after the brain has stopped functioning, and a patient is clinically dead.
The research, presented to scientists last week at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), resurrects the debate over whether there is life after death and whether there is such a thing as the human soul.
"The studies are very significant in that we have a group of people with no brain function ... who have well-structured, lucid thought processes with reasoning and memory formation at a time when their brains are shown not to function," Sam Parnia, one of two doctors from Southampton General Hospital in England who have been studying so-called near-death experiences (NDEs), told Reuters in an interview.

Link here, -->http://aleroy.com/FAQz19.htm

SINcerely,
:devil:

Edited by Dying Seraph, 10 October 2012 - 02:07 AM.

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#29    Cybele

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:13 AM

View PostZeta Reticulum, on 09 October 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

...he then experienced "something so profound that it gave me a scientific personal reason to believe in consciousness after death."

Fixed it. :P

I've seen this doctor in an interview before. It sounds like a lovely experience (minus the meningitis part), but it's purely subjective. I don't know if enough's known about the brain yet (though I would think he should know) to say this is outside of the realm of natural explanations.

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#30    tipotep

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:54 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Nice job. That solves everything.

Thanks :tu:   I enjoy sarcasm as much as the next person .

This was what happened to Kerry with his NDE , is it not relevant because he didn't have some sort experience ?

TiP

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