127 replies to this topic

[The Silver Thong]

Wickian, on 21 May 2010 - 12:39 AM, said:

I disagree.  Guns don't make people any more violent than they would be without them.  It's still a fact that only criminals will use guns for illegal purposes.

So you must also agree with no gun laws or restrictions it makes people with guns safer? If one has access to a gun it makes them more likely to commit a crime using one. If your an idiot or a complete moron do you take a base ball bat to rob a gas station or a gun, given that a gun is just as easy to get as a baseball bat? Pesonaly I would rather deal with a bat than a gun.

[The Silver Thong]

Just to add. America will never give up there guns, nor should they.

[Wickian]

The Silver Thong, on 21 May 2010 - 05:37 AM, said:

So you must also agree with no gun laws or restrictions it makes people with guns safer? If one has access to a gun it makes them more likely to commit a crime using one. If your an idiot or a complete moron do you take a base ball bat to rob a gas station or a gun, given that a gun is just as easy to get as a baseball bat? Pesonaly I would rather deal with a bat than a gun.

That's true, but you could also say that having access to the outside world(public) makes someone more likely to commit a mugging.  I'm not saying guns aren't dangerous, but the responsibility of violence and crime falls on the criminals, not the tools they use.

[The Silver Thong]

Wickian, on 21 May 2010 - 05:50 AM, said:

That's true, but you could also say that having access to the outside world(public) makes someone more likely to commit a mugging.  I'm not saying guns aren't dangerous, but the responsibility of violence and crime falls on the criminals, not the tools they use.

However when those tools (guns) are made by law to include average citizens to have access then we have an issue. In saying that lets expand the matter and make a bit of an outlandish statement. If the global community, given it just a few (7or8)nations can have the technology for a nuclear bomb shouldn't everybody (nation) have that same right? or now do we pose regulations on weapons to nations that don't seem responsible enough to have them? as we should to the average citizen?

[Halfwolf]

The Silver Thong, on 21 May 2010 - 06:04 AM, said:

However when those tools (guns) are made by law to include average citizens to have access then we have an issue. In saying that lets expand the matter and make a bit of an outlandish statement. If the global community, given it just a few (7or8)nations can have the technology for a nuclear bomb shouldn't everybody (nation) have that same right? or now do we pose regulations on weapons to nations that don't seem responsible enough to have them? as we should to the average citizen?

   There are restrictions on the average citizen. Age, criminal record,mental issues just to name a few. Do you believe Iran does not have some mental issues? They want to kill all people not of the Muslim Faith. North Korea well I think Kim Jong is certifiably NUTZ.
   I firmly believe in the right to carry a weapon if one can pass a safety class, marksman class and have references from their local law enforcement. It has been proven that concealed carry will not result in gun fights in Wal Mart parking lots. 48 States have some form of permit to carry, 48 States can't be all wrong.

[SRCivic98]

Halfwolf, on 21 May 2010 - 06:43 AM, said:

There are restrictions on the average citizen. Age, criminal record,mental issues just to name a few. Do you believe Iran does not have some mental issues? They want to kill all people not of the Muslim Faith. North Korea well I think Kim Jong is certifiably NUTZ.
   I firmly believe in the right to carry a weapon if one can pass a safety class, marksman class and have references from their local law enforcement. It has been proven that concealed carry will not result in gun fights in Wal Mart parking lots. 48 States have some form of permit to carry, 48 States can't be all wrong.

exactly right. just because someone carries a gun doesn't make them a threat. I mean it would be like saying "oh look! they've got a wrench! drop them!" It would be completely insane. Also, anyone that successful teaches a carry conceal class always preaches safety and the laws of carrying a firearm.

[Agent X]

I'm always extremely skeptical at any of these kinds of alarmists claims.

[Startraveler]

Agent X, on 21 May 2010 - 04:18 PM, said:

I'm always extremely skeptical at any of these kinds of alarmists claims.

Good. They're usually bull.

[rashore]

ok... so the article says that the US is ok with going into negotiations that may last two years at least.
These negotiations to decide to negotiate has been going on for a bit now.
And besides...
If I'm not mistaken, article 61/89 is the article the fuss is about- that of not allowing US citizens their right to US guns.
A great bit to note from this article:

"Reaffirming the inherent right of all States to individual or collective self- defence in accordance with Article 51 of the Charter,
Acknowledging the right of all States to manufacture, import, export, transfer and retain conventional arms for self-defence and security needs, and in order to participate in peace support operations,"
and on with the rest of the document....

That sounds like the UN is saying it's ok for US citizens to own their guns.

[keithisco]

danielost, on 21 May 2010 - 12:57 AM, said:

i hate to disagree with you but where gun control has become law violance has increased doubling or tripling.  even in england the unarmed bobbies are now carring guns to protect themselves.

NO THEY ARE NOT!!! *snip*  Learn about other cultures before assigning some "home-made" philosophy to them. Hey Look!! Gun crime in the USA 5 times higher than the UK, that cant be right because there is "Gun control " in the UK.

Edited by Saru, 22 May 2010 - 08:36 AM.
Edited for ad hom

[Sweetpumper]

Antimony, on 20 May 2010 - 10:44 PM, said:

Well, good on him!, is my spontaneous reaction. Americans are crazy with regards to gun laws and I still can't understand how you can fail to see that more guns means more violence, not more protection. It's staring you in the face.

It's scary how ignorant this type of thinking is. And, sadly all too common. All we read in the mainstream media is criminals committing gun crimes and never, ever, the countless stories of normal people saving their lives and properties every day because they are armed and prepared. All because the good stories don't sell and it leads to these types of completely false assumptions. Sad.

[socrates.junior]

keithisco, on 21 May 2010 - 07:56 PM, said:

NO THEY ARE NOT!!!  Learn about other cultures before assigning some "home-made" philosophy to them. Hey Look!! Gun crime in the USA 5 times higher than the UK, that cant be right because there is "Gun control " in the UK. Stupid is as stupid does...

   Okay, citation?

[Antimony]

Sweetpumper, on 21 May 2010 - 08:06 PM, said:

It's scary how ignorant this type of thinking is. And, sadly all too common. All we read in the mainstream media is criminals committing gun crimes and never, ever, the countless stories of normal people saving their lives and properties every day because they are armed and prepared. All because the good stories don't sell and it leads to these types of completely false assumptions. Sad.

Why don't you show me some examples of those countless stories. I am always happy to be saved from my ignorance.

[Wickian]

Antimony, on 21 May 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

Why don't you show me some examples of those countless stories. I am always happy to be saved from my ignorance.

I don't know about countless, but off the top of my head there was a story I read about the LA riot.  Mobs were looting almost every store and house they moved near.  One guy went on his roof with a chair, had his rifle in his hands and would warn any person who came near his house.

He didn't shoot anyone and his home wasn't vandalized at all.  Just the fact that potential home invaders knew he was armed and ready deterred any of them from trying to raid his home.

[Sweetpumper]

Antimony, on 21 May 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

Why don't you show me some examples of those countless stories. I am always happy to be saved from my ignorance.

I'm not gonna search for you but just a small example would be the 10 or so stories written about every month in my Firearms magazine. True stories that you'll never read about anywhere else.

What the hell, start here I guess:

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/

Edited by Sweetpumper, 21 May 2010 - 09:43 PM.