28 replies to this topic

[THE MATRIX]

Sean93, on 14 February 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

The humiliation men must traverse through to get laid is a monumental tragedy.

(Assuming it was with a girlfriend date...why else?)

Trust me this isn't the first time i went to hell. The last time I had to sit through Sex and the City the movie.

[Sean93]

THE MATRIX, on 14 February 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

Trust me this isn't the first time i went to hell. The last time I had to sit through Sex and the City the movie.

I can only imagine your plight, brother.

You better have gotten a...reward, at the end of such a predicament.

[THE MATRIX]

Sean93, on 14 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

I can only imagine your plight, brother.

You better have gotten a...reward, at the end of such a predicament.

HECK YEAH I DID! TWICE!

[Sean93]

THE MATRIX, on 14 February 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

HECK YEAH I DID! TWICE!

[coolguy]

Its ok all the cool people are in hell..

[Paranoid Android]

There are actually several words that translate as Hell.

• she'ôl - This is what Jews refer to as "Abraham's Bosom".  It is a place the dead go to rest.  King David and Abraham (possibly the two most influential patriarchs in Israel's history) are both in she'ôl according to the Bible!  Though it must be said that most modern translations of the Hebrew scripture leave she'ôl untranslated, but the older versions of the Bible tended to translate it as "hell".

• Hades - Literally translated it means, "Hole in the ground".  Most often it refers to a grave or burial site.  All people who die are destined to be buried in this place (unless of course one gets cremated - the irony being that the only way to avoid this Hell is to go through a burning fire of cremation).

• Gehenna - The Valley of Gehenna sits outside Jerusalem.  It was essentially a giant garbage dump, where people would take their rubbish and burn it.  Sometimes, mostly for poorer people (those who could not afford tombs), it was also the place where people came to burn their dead.  The Valley of Gehenna still exists today, and if you really wanted, you could make a trip there and visit it.

• Tartaros - This is only mentioned once in the entire Bible (2 Peter 2:4).  This is indeed a place of torture and torment.  However, it is a place set aside for Satan and the demons.  No human is ever described as going to this place (though a hint to the contrary may exist in Matthew 25).  However, it is not described as a permanent eternal place.

One could also assume a reference to this in Revelation's limnē pur (translated as "Lake of Fire"), but I'd argue that this is just what the passage says it is, the "second death", not the "second place of eternal suffering and torment".

Just a few thoughts to consider,

~ Regards, PA

[Ron Jeremy]

Doesn't matter. The Bible was written over many thousands of years and it's more than likely that it contains various and often incompatible ideas of afterlife.

[scowl]

David Henson, on 14 February 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

Its kind of funny, if you think about it. The skeptics and atheists are always saying the Bible isn't true, just a bunch of crap, because when you die, that's it. You are dead. When that is exactly what the Bible says.

Explain Luke 23:42 and 43 to me when Jesus and a couple of other guys were dying on their crosses:

Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.

Is heaven just for people who were lucky enough to die near Jesus when he died?

[David Henson]

scowl, on 15 February 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

Explain Luke 23:42 and 43 to me when Jesus and a couple of other guys were dying on their crosses:

Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.

Is heaven just for people who were lucky enough to die near Jesus when he died?

Its an interesting point. First of all recall that he said paradise. Not heaven. The meek shall inherit, what? The Earth. (Psalm 37:29) Second of all recall that for three days after Jesus died he was in hell. Not paradise. (Acts 2:30-31 / Luke 9:22 / John 20:17) Only a certain number of people go to heaven. (Revelation 7:3, 4; 14:1-3)

Some scholars think that Jesus said it like this: Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." So that the today applies not in being in paradise, but in the telling of it. That sounds plausible, but isn't correct. The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XXIII, p. 16) states: “No attempt to punctuate is apparent in the earlier manuscripts and inscriptions of the Greeks.” The Greek wouldn't have such punctuation until the 9th century C.E.

The Emphasised Bible translated by J. B. Rotherham agrees. In a footnote on Luke 23:43, translator L. Reinhardt says: “The punctuation presently used [by most translators] in this verse is undoubtedly false and contradictory to the entire way of thinking of Christ and the evildoer. . . . [Christ] certainly did not understand paradise to be a subdivision of the realm of the dead, but rather the restoration of a paradise on earth.”

Christ was talking about paradise restored. The man would be one of the meek who inherit the earth, and though it would be thousands of years later, it would seem to the man as if he had only just woke up from a sleep on that day.

[David Henson]

Ron Jeremy, on 14 February 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Doesn't matter. The Bible was written over many thousands of years and it's more than likely that it contains various and often incompatible ideas of afterlife.

It doesn't actually.

[Pssst]

THE MATRIX, on 14 February 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

Trust me this isn't the first time i went to hell. The last time I had to sit through Sex and the City the movie.

Try being stuck on a broken down "It's A Small World" Disneyworld ride with your mother-in-law.  

Edited by Pssst, 15 February 2013 - 12:45 AM.

[Seeker79]

The Silver Thong, on 14 February 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

I will pipe in and say yes the bible is a story book and as all of us and our biology is the same and yes we just die and that is our gift back to the earth that gave us the conditions to live. To pretend anything else is a wish at best. Not a non sequitur.

If there is no spirit, then all we have is chance in infinity. The odds of a big bang happening within any part of the vacuum with the exact set up as this universe might be 1 to 20,000^45,000. It might then the probability of 1 to that number squared that the finite arrangements of matter work themselves out to be exactly as it is now.

The point being the consequence of there only Being chance is that we will be reborn and live this life over and over again in universes far removed from this one. I'm ok with that, I like my life.

Regardless it would seem eternal life or at least fits of eternal life is probably a fact for everyone weather you believe in spirit or not.

Edited by Seeker79, 15 February 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[Rlyeh]

Seeker79, on 15 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

If there is no spirit, then all we have is chance in infinity.

How does a spirit change this?

[Seeker79]

Rlyeh, on 16 February 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

How does a spirit change this?

If there is some sort of spirit/god/universal conciousness it may be directing the creation of universes rather than it being random.

But that's besides the point. If existence  is random and infinite there is no way to avoid the evenchual reconstruction of this very universe with the exact events.  So we have some options.
Really the only two options where you cease to exist are:

1) some sort of god exists that created the universe and will kill you ... Or let you die without resurrection if you are not good enough

2) this universe is a one time deal and nothing like it will ever happen again or has never happened before.

I find both of of these options exceedingly difficult to consider a possibility. It seems to me that in some fashion we truely do live forever.

If you lived a miserable unfulfilling life and indeed you are doomed to repeat it for eternity.... Now that to me is hell.

Edited by Seeker79, 16 February 2013 - 06:04 AM.