10148 replies to this topic

[Harte]

Lord Vetinari, on 05 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

So it doesn't actually say that, you mean? So was it faked, or is it a (deliberate?) mistranslation?

It absolutely says that, or words to that effect.

The description given does not include how "mecury" can be used as a power source.  Mercury was a very mysterious thing back then, and all sorts of crazy things were attributed to it, and not just by the Hindu culture.

Harte

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Harte, on 05 January 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

It absolutely says that, or words to that effect.

The description given does not include how "mecury" can be used as a power source.  Mercury was a very mysterious thing back then, and all sorts of crazy things were attributed to it, and not just by the Hindu culture.

Harte

So what is the accepted explanation of the references to flying machines & so on? Is it an anticipation of Leonardo da vinci? Obviously the "mercury" might well be associated with alechemy and that kind of thing, so is "flying machines" of the manner of a metaphor or or allegory?

Edited by Lord Vetinari, 05 January 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[Harte]

Lord Vetinari, on 05 January 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

So what is the accepted explanation of the references to flying machines & so on? Is it an anticipation of Leonardo da vinci? Obviously the "mercury" might well be associated with alechemy and that kind of thing, so is "flying machines" of the manner of a metaphor or or allegory?

Seems like a good question.

I think (this is me) that you can attribute the concept similarly to what the Greeks considered to be flying chariots - the Sun, etc.

In the earliest Ancient Indian texts, vimanas were chariots pulled by flying animals such as elephants.  They were used by gods to travel around.

I suppose if you're gonna postulate that gods travelled around, then you'd need a superior conveyance by which they would do their travelling.

I've read that the Mahabharata attributes the invention of the vimana to the "clever Greeks" (Clive Hart, "The Prehistory of Flight,"- no relation, BTW .)  It's listed there for 79 cents.  If you buy it, let me know if he references that claim and how.

Checking the Mahabharata itself, I've found some quotes attributing things to the "clever Greeks," but I've never seen the vimana so attributed.

Harte

[nopeda]

psyche101, on 03 January 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Sadly, to start the year I have to strongly disagree on this point mate. This is exactly what is wrong with UFOlogy, and why it has so little respect. With this sort of tomfoolery being entertained, I am really nor sure it deserves any better until this sort of outright ridiculous nonsense is ousted for what it is. This is an embarrassment to the human race

Hilarious! That's exactly the way I feel about people who think so small that they've put their faith in the one possibility that no beings from other star systems have ever been to another one, or even been to this one I think of people like that and hamsters as being similar in their abilities to think realistically about the possibility that there are beings in the universe who are good at space travel, since neither hamsters nor such humans are able to. With the hamsters it's more understandable though, since they're not in a position to try while the humans are.

[nopeda]

psyche101, on 04 January 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

As far as I can tell, the main rebuttal seems to be "I don't get it so it must be wrong"

You don't get how any beings could develop interstellar travel, so none could have been able to HILARIOUS!!! Maybe the history of the entire universe will change if you ever get some idea of how it could have been done?

[nopeda]

Oniomancer, on 03 January 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

How would you expect them to look?
See three above. You have been shown how they form 2 sets of legible glyphs in a way which far less coincidental than the entirely superficial resemblance to vehicles. And again, That they line up to form what is interpreted as such is an artifact of the linear nature of hieroglyphics, and in in fact virtually all script in general . Over, under, side by side in regular, predetermined rows. 2 overlaying scripts using regularly sized and centered pictograms then are almost guaranteed  to form some regular, none random looking shapes. The fact that the further to the right you go, the random nonsensical  overlays you see has been consistently ignored by you.

I'd expect them to look as they do, which they do, because they were carved to look that way. You can't even comprehend how it would be different if some plaster was still left, than it would be if none was left. That's pretty bad. On top of that there's no reason to believe they were ever plastered over or carved over, except that some people guess it possibly happened. So far I've seen no reason to believe it did though.

[nopeda]

Wearer of Hats, on 03 January 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

well the first thought that leaps to mind is that "those" humans did indeed do it, the second one beinf "a different group of humans did it". The later gets me labelled as much a fringie as you and your aliens because it's "lost civilisation theory" etc.
Why did aliens do it? Stuffe if ny of us could know.
Why did humans do it? The usual human reasons, defence, because they could, penis waving, those sort of things.

Most of the time from what I've been led to believe they did it to honor and sometimes worship beings who if they existed were/are almost certainly xts. So, you think the most likely thing if the humans who used the places couldn't create them is that they went and found other humans who could. Maybe. The likelyhood of that would be below the likelyhood of xt influence imo, of course especially in cases where the people tell us gods and/or xts have been around.

[nopeda]

DBunker, on 03 January 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

Bolded is the kicker..... not to your knowledge.

If you think yours is different then try saying what you think you know better. If/When you can't it will show that you're in the same position he is.

[nopeda]

Harte, on 04 January 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

Quote

nopeda, on 03 January 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:
There is question about what the glyphs are. Just because you have faith in a possibility doesn't mean there aren't others, or even that your favorite one is correct. Were you unaware of that?

Mine is no "possibility" or mere interpretation, as you have been shown several times.
It is a translation.  Those are words, not pictures.  You've been shown the glyphs and what they mean - several of them individually and in other contexts.

They look like they were carved to appear as they do and nothing anyone has done so far has been able to change that. So so far I'll go with what they do look like instead of trying to put faith in something they do NOT look like, like you apparently have done. They DO NOT appear to have been carved over, and DO NOT appear to have been plastered over, in any pics I've seen so far.

[the L]

Harte, on 05 January 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Unlikely, unless you think they were flying around in the sky as recently as 1000 AD, approximately when that book was written.

Harte

Unlikely-meaning I dont know but I BELIEVE that isnt true. Because it cant be true.

To respond on your previous post as well.

So what if is about architecture? Architecture is in us. You seems like a person who like history. History is connected with architecture. When you think on Egyptians on what do you think first? On their architecture. Their Pyramids. When think on Paris what do you think? Effiel tower,Sacre Coeur, Notre Dam, Arc de Triomphe, Louvre and so on.
Architecture is 3D art. It is designed by us. Its our living space. And from art, design, idea we can conclude a lot.

Also to draw parallel. Im quite sure you know about Vitruvius and his De Architectura. It isnt book just about Architecture no matter how one want to describe it.
It also said about steam engienes. So we can conclude that our ancestors connected Architecture and Engineering more then we.

[Harte]

You and nopeda both enjoy the fallacious straw man argument i see.

Harte

[Oniomancer]

nopeda, on 05 January 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

I'd expect them to look as they do, which they do, because they were carved to look that way. You can't even comprehend how it would be different if some plaster was still left, than it would be if none was left. That's pretty bad. On top of that there's no reason to believe they were ever plastered over or carved over, except that some people guess it possibly happened. So far I've seen no reason to believe it did though.

You said, "Let's not forget that it doesn't LOOK LIKE they were plastered over."  I repeat, How would you expect them to look?

I'd like to know how I "can't comprehend" when I just brought it up. Given the amount of space we've got to work with, they could look like almost anything.

I've just given you several very good logical reasons to believe just that, all of which you've ignored in favor of an oblique attack. There is no guesswork involved. As you say, either they look like two overlapping sets of legible hieroglyphs or they don't, and since they do...

[Harte]

the L, on 05 January 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Unlikely-meaning I dont know but I BELIEVE that isnt true. Because it cant be true.

To respond on your previous post as well.

So what if is about architecture? Architecture is in us. You seems like a person who like history. History is connected with architecture. When you think on Egyptians on what do you think first? On their architecture. Their Pyramids. When think on Paris what do you think? Effiel tower,Sacre Coeur, Notre Dam, Arc de Triomphe, Louvre and so on.
Architecture is 3D art. It is designed by us. Its our living space. And from art, design, idea we can conclude a lot.

So, you're so interested in it, did you spend the 125 bucks for the book yet? Remember, this was the reason I gave when you stated  "Btw nice try for providing that UM link because there are none answer on it. You could wrote in Vimana thread about Little redhood and wolf. That doesnt mean you find answer."

Harte

[zoser]

seeder, on 05 January 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Of course there is a big chance that any vitrified rocks..were quarried that way...and not vitrified after a structure was built

No.  This can be seen in the caves; the vitrification is only apparent when cutting has taken place such as ledges etc.  The same can be seen with the open rock outcrops.

[the L]

Harte,
You want to say that Hakatha is invention?
Or Samarangana Sutradhara?

I know they exist. They are real. Weather is written what I posted in them I dont know. I didnt read them because I couldnt find it. If I did I would read them.
Personally my incomings doesnt allowing buying more books then I actually buying. Right now on my waiting reading list I have 26 books.
So I asked question here. But not just here. Everywhere where I ask people dont know.

Allow me to post quote from wiki:

http://en.wikipedia....gana_Sutradhara

Verses 95-100 mentions bird-shaped aerial cars (Vimanas), and verses 101-107 mention a sort of robots acting as guards.

Robots and flying cars.

Who can say this is boring.

Edited by the L, 05 January 2013 - 09:12 PM.