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Is proof of alien life a risk to society ?


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#256    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:12 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 04 April 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

I agree, I am not sure why any anthropologist would not take an interest in a life form. Geologists find rocks fascinating, most people do not. An alien species would not have to only have one mindset. I do not see why such beings would not also have a sense of individuality and individual interests, and I do not understand why many take offence to the idea that we might be interesting to another species. I though only angsty emo teens were down on the world and thought we were the bottom of the barrel? Is it cool to be emo if one believes in ET perhaps?
So you're equating "not making their presence known" to those you're studying with not taking an interest? That really doesn't follow in any logical way at all, I'm afraid. So finding something fascinating would necessarily mean interfering with it? Even if that was considered to be a good scientific way of doing it (which it really wouldn't be), we're yet again assuming that just because you've never heard of anyone not doing it, every race in the Universe would do it that very unscientific way? yet again, I'm afraid that realy is way too much of a leap to draw that kind of conclusion.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#257    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 April 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

That no society ever would be interested, when the only one we know about exhibits abundant interest, is the leap too far.  You are in the situation of having to deny something that is perfectly reasonable only to rationalize your position.  

You don't demonstrate that they are out there by doing nothing but find excuses for why we don't see them.
i really don't understand your line of logic. Why do you assume that not interfering with what you're studying indicates lack of interest? Surely your appreciate that proper scientific study of something means not interfering in it, but letting it take its course?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#258    psyche101

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:21 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 04 April 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

So you're equating "not making their presence known" to those you're studying with not taking an interest? That really doesn't follow in any logical way at all, I'm afraid. So finding something fascinating would necessarily mean interfering with it? Even if that was considered to be a good scientific way of doing it (which it really wouldn't be), we're yet again assuming that just because you've never heard of anyone not doing it, every race in the Universe would do it that very unscientific way? yet again, I'm afraid that realy is way too much of a leap to draw that kind of conclusion.

No, you made that connection only a couple of posts ago when you said:


And Anthropologists coming here? Once again, that seems to be assuming that we're so remarkably fascinating that they'd flock from all corner of the galaxy to see us.

What I said is that it is impossible to speak for an entire species. Some of them might not be interested, fair enough comment there, but that does not mean all aliens are or would be, such as our own Geologists who find rocks fascinating, yet most people do not share that passion. Heck, some still do not even have a most basic understanding of them as we have both seen. I do not think we can say "we would be uninteresting" because I do not think an Aliens species is going to be a bunch of clones with the same hive mind. Some might find us fascinating, some might find us dead boring. But not all of one species is likely to have the same opinion if we are speaking of life as we know it.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#259    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:41 AM

It is of course impossible to say what a given species of alien might or might not be interested in, nor how they might or might not proceed.  Its just that their utter absence (except for some of the nonsense we get around here) speaks loudly that they aren't there.  All the theories as to why they might not be interested or why they might want to hide and so on are weak rationalizations when the simple thing is they should have shown up long ago notebooks in hand.


#260    psyche101

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:42 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 April 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

It is of course impossible to say what a given species of alien might or might not be interested in, nor how they might or might not proceed.  Its just that their utter absence (except for some of the nonsense we get around here) speaks loudly that they aren't there.  All the theories as to why they might not be interested or why they might want to hide and so on are weak rationalizations when the simple thing is they should have shown up long ago notebooks in hand.

Indeed, I agree, it is alos absurd I feel to say that the rest of the Universe is using radio waves we do not recognise. And it is indeed impossible top speak for an entire species, with individual minds, there is no point is considering all aliens act in the same manner. Yet nothing, no fledgling species, no advanced species, just some dubious tales.

What you are saying pretty much is the Fermi Paradox. LINK

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#261    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:20 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 04 April 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

No, you made that connection only a couple of posts ago when you said:


And Anthropologists coming here? Once again, that seems to be assuming that we're so remarkably fascinating that they'd flock from all corner of the galaxy to see us.

What I said is that it is impossible to speak for an entire species. Some of them might not be interested, fair enough comment there, but that does not mean all aliens are or would be, such as our own Geologists who find rocks fascinating, yet most people do not share that passion. Heck, some still do not even have a most basic understanding of them as we have both seen. I do not think we can say "we would be uninteresting" because I do not think an Aliens species is going to be a bunch of clones with the same hive mind. Some might find us fascinating, some might find us dead boring. But not all of one species is likely to have the same opinion if we are speaking of life as we know it.
I'm just not sure that just because we've developed language and a (to them) modest degree of technological devlopment, then we'd be so astonishingly fascinating that they just couldn't wait to communicate with us.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#262    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:22 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 April 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

It is of course impossible to say what a given species of alien might or might not be interested in, nor how they might or might not proceed.  Its just that their utter absence (except for some of the nonsense we get around here) speaks loudly that they aren't there.  All the theories as to why they might not be interested or why they might want to hide and so on are weak rationalizations when the simple thing is they should have shown up long ago notebooks in hand.
Why should they? Why they be so fascinated in us? That's what you haven't explained yet, you just seem to assume that they'd want to show up with notebooks in hand. Not to mention that that assumes that they'd know already, without any preliminary recconnaisance, that we were here and that we were so fascinating. How would they know that if, as you argue, they've never even sent so much as a probe here?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#263    psyche101

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:39 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 05 April 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

I'm just not sure that just because we've developed language and a (to them) modest degree of technological devlopment, then we'd be so astonishingly fascinating that they just couldn't wait to communicate with us.

In turn, I do not see how anyone could possibly speak for an entire species. If only 2% of a species is interested in human development, that is still a significant contribution. Another species might well consider us as boring, but that does not mean every member of said species, just the vast majority. Again, I offer the nuances of humanity, unless we are assuming every life form that is not human is a clone connected to a hive mind?

Edited by psyche101, 05 April 2013 - 07:46 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#264    psyche101

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:45 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 05 April 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Why should they? Why they be so fascinated in us? That's what you haven't explained yet, you just seem to assume that they'd want to show up with notebooks in hand. Not to mention that that assumes that they'd know already, without any preliminary recconnaisance, that we were here and that we were so fascinating. How would they know that if, as you argue, they've never even sent so much as a probe here?

Why not? we are a complex life form. Any zoologist worth his salt gets rather excited at new life forms, even variations of existing ones, which many species happen to be.

Why do geologists stare at rocks for hours? Why do people study poop? Some of the most inane things to the average citizen can be fascinating. Personally, I find geology fascinating, and I even have quite an interest in Poop, as I design treatment plants often, and am still amazed at the bio treatment processes. That bacteria is some amazing stuff. Yet look at others, they look at a rock, and do not wonder how it came to be, but how an alien might have softened it. People are different, and I suspect Aliens are too. I see no reason to think otherwise. Some may well find us very mundane, but just as many stars in the sky offer odds that life must exist, the individuality of life as we know it suggests aliens will have a sense of individuality as well. Just a part of the process of evolution and striving a species forward.

They would not have sent a probe here for the same reasons we do not have probes in the Sombrero Galaxy. Space is unimaginably big.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#265    Starseed hybrid 1111

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:18 PM

people i read this one already and please know this you have nothing to fear its the corrupt governments and etc,these Illuminati,new world order and etc.so if you are one of them and you know who you are.anyway the governments in the world especially the u.s.a government is the worst and one that is especially truing to put fear into peoples heart and lives.why so they could fight them instead of loving them and interacting with them.why?because these so called leaders in the high governments of all the world want to remain in control,have power over the people,manipulate humanity and etc.also there are many types of benevolent E.Ts already here among earth and in the universe watching over us at this moment people.there is like anything else there are good and bad E.Ts of course.but do not fear the all of them like the ones watching over us from above are the benevolent E.Ts most of them they keep away the evil ones.another reason why the governments want to keep their existence a secret are because most E.Ts have humanities best interest at heart and do care for us not like the governments they have no interest in that whatsoever nor have humanities best interest at heart.they could say these things in the public and etc but no they are liars,liars,deceivers and etc.


#266    psyche101

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:57 AM

View PostAndromedan Starseed 333, on 09 April 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

people i read this one already and please know this you have nothing to fear its the corrupt governments and etc,these Illuminati,new world order and etc.so if you are one of them and you know who you are.anyway the governments in the world especially the u.s.a government is the worst and one that is especially truing to put fear into peoples heart and lives.why so they could fight them instead of loving them and interacting with them.why?because these so called leaders in the high governments of all the world want to remain in control,have power over the people,manipulate humanity and etc.also there are many types of benevolent E.Ts already here among earth and in the universe watching over us at this moment people.there is like anything else there are good and bad E.Ts of course.but do not fear the all of them like the ones watching over us from above are the benevolent E.Ts most of them they keep away the evil ones.another reason why the governments want to keep their existence a secret are because most E.Ts have humanities best interest at heart and do care for us not like the governments they have no interest in that whatsoever nor have humanities best interest at heart.they could say these things in the public and etc but no they are liars,liars,deceivers and etc.

I was not in fear of marauding aliens, but thanks anyway.

I am not a US citizen. The US Government has no control over me. The US government has no control over China, Korea, The MIddle East, India or Vietnam, all capable of detecting Interstellar traffic into the US, and would not keep the US Governments "secret" under wraps.

The Government scenario just does not work on a global scale. Sorry. The entire might of the UN cannot stop France, Korea or Vietnam testing Nuclear Weapons, they cannot find some WMD's in the middle east, hell, they can't even ground the Sea Shepherd. No way I believe the Government claims, they make no sense at all.

Edited by psyche101, 10 April 2013 - 12:58 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#267    DONTEATUS

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:41 AM

Well Now theres an Idea psyche101 ! Alien`s take over the Sea Shepherd and replace the crews,Keep filming ,stay with me on this on !
THe Big Grey Salt Alien can be played by William Shattner . ANd the rest of the Crews will be filled upon there massive vote to whose the best B.B.Q Human Cook ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#268    psyche101

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:33 AM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 10 April 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

Well Now theres an Idea psyche101 ! Alien`s take over the Sea Shepherd and replace the crews,Keep filming ,stay with me on this on !
THe Big Grey Salt Alien can be played by William Shattner . ANd the rest of the Crews will be filled upon there massive vote to whose the best B.B.Q Human Cook ! :tu:

Was always quite partial to this ending myself..........




Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#269    kcchris727

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:37 AM

The idea of intelligent life somewhere in the universe seems to me almost a give in. It would be typical human arrogance and short sightedness to assume otherwise. However, the notion that aliens are popping in once in awhile to grope cows or fondle hillbillies is preposterous. If these aliens are indeed that advanced technologically, they would have no need to hide, we would be powerless regardless of what they did.


#270    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:18 AM

View Postkcchris727, on 12 April 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

The idea of intelligent life somewhere in the universe seems to me almost a give in. It would be typical human arrogance and short sightedness to assume otherwise. However, the notion that aliens are popping in once in awhile to grope cows or fondle hillbillies is preposterous. If these aliens are indeed that advanced technologically, they would have no need to hide, we would be powerless regardless of what they did.
perhaps they don't hide deliberately; maybe they are Extraterrestrial probes, carrying out their business of studying the fauna of the planet (including us), indifferent to whether or not it'd be see as 'rude', since their technology would mean that they were all but uncatchable if the creatures they were studying did take offence. Given the number of UFO sightings, a proportion of which at least do seem to be unexplainable, they don't seem to deliberately set out to hide; I'm sure if they did, there'd never be any UFo sightings at all.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:





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