184 replies to this topic

[Kazahel]

Mattshark, on 07 May 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

But Reiki has also completely failed in medical trails, which is not surprising for something created by a man going atop of a hill and starving himself till he came up with it.

Bad article though, Farage is aspiring to be an MP, he isn't actually an MP (thankfully).

And yes, there is nothing wrong with magical thinking, however, it is an extremely weak position to argue from.

My point was that people have different beliefs.. and just because one believes in ki energy does not make it a trolling thread. I was also pointing out that the belief in ki energy was well before the cartoon that was spoken of.  

*Oh and even if Reiki is only a placebo effect it still has value in medicine. Good for anxiety and all sorts of things.

Edited by Kazahel, 07 May 2010 - 02:42 PM.

[HerNibs]

Kazahel, on 07 May 2010 - 02:36 PM, said:

My point was that people have different beliefs.. and just because one believes in ki energy does not make it a trolling thread. I was also pointing out that the belief in ki energy was well before the cartoon that was spoken of.  

*Oh and even if Reiki is only a placebo effect it still has value in medicine.

A belief doesn't make something real.

Nibs

________________________

Re:  Reiki

NO, Reiki has NO place in medicine because it and it's practitioners bill it as real.  If even ONE person goes with Reiki rather than a proven medical treatment then it is dangerous and possibly deadly.

Make-believe and BS can be very very dangerous and deadly.


Nibs

Edited by HerNibs, 07 May 2010 - 02:44 PM.

[Kazahel]

HerNibs, on 07 May 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

If even ONE person goes with Reiki rather than a proven medical treatment then it is dangerous and possibly deadly.

Make-believe and BS can be very very dangerous and deadly.


Nibs

Generally people use both.  You could even think of it as like meditation which does have value especailly with things like anxiety.

HerNibs, on 07 May 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

A belief doesn't make something real.

Nibs

Was that in regards to calling this thread a trolling one.

Edited by Kazahel, 07 May 2010 - 02:51 PM.

[Mattshark]

Kazahel, on 07 May 2010 - 02:36 PM, said:

My point was that people have different beliefs.. and just because one believes in ki energy does not make it a trolling thread. I was also pointing out that the belief in ki energy was well before the cartoon that was spoken of.  

*Oh and even if Reiki is only a placebo effect it still has value in medicine. Good for anxiety and all sorts of things.

Anxiety yes, however, it is not curative and hence is not medicine. Using placebo's for curative purposes is rightly illegal.

Proposing unevidenced or falsified methods as medicine is also illegal and extremely dangerous.

Edited by Mattshark, 07 May 2010 - 02:53 PM.

[Kazahel]

Mattshark, on 07 May 2010 - 02:51 PM, said:

Anxiety yes, however, it is not curative. Using placebo's for curative purposes is rightly illegal.

Nothing really cures anxiety.

So there we have it, it does have some value. Magickal thinking does have some value.

[HerNibs]

Kazahel, on 07 May 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

Generally people use both.  You could even think of it as like meditation which does have value especailly with things like anxiety.

Yeah, so does a warm bath but doesn't cost nearly as much.  Reiki doesn't advertise itself as a "placebo", it advertises itself as  -

Reiki

Quote

Reiki practitioners channel energy in a particular pattern to heal and harmonize. Unlike other healing therapies based on the premise of a human energy field, Reiki seeks to restore order to the body whose vital energy has become unbalanced.

Reiki energy has several basic effects: it brings about deep relaxation, destroys energy blockages, detoxifies the system, provides new vitality in the form of healing universal life energy, and increases the vibrational frequency of the body.

Quote

The whole body Reiki is used to treat the whole body to achieve relaxation. It facilitates the removal of blockages in energy flow and the dispersal of toxins.

Long-term practice of whole-body Reiki will restore the general condition of the body. The energy channels are opened to allow the body to deal properly and naturally with both stress and the build-up of toxins. It will help you to cope with anxiety and depression.

Reiki therapy is also useful when you are recovering from an illness. Reiki will provide the additional energy required to recover from the illness. It will also reinforce the effects of any other method of natural healing. It can be used as a supplementary therapy as it is a truly complementary system of treatment.

If a person is depressed and opts for Reiki rather than counseling and medication, it is dangerous.  

Quote

Was that in regards to calling this thread a trolling one.

Huh?  Don't know what you are talking about.

The statement is just that, a statement.

A belief, regardless of how strong it is or how many believe does NOT make it real.

Easter Bunny as an example.

Nibs

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Paranormalcy, on 05 May 2010 - 08:36 PM, said:

In all fairness to "both sides" here - this is VERY CLEARLY in the "Psychic Abilities" sub-forum, and it has been stated by numerous moderators including Saruman himself that it is all but an official "given" that things here can be discussed from the point of view of taking psychic abilities as "real".

This is for practitioners to discuss, share and learn tips and techniques with and from other practitioners of "the psychic arts".

This doesn't mean skeptics and questioners aren't welcome, but it DOES mean that this is not the place for demands of proof and is not the place for mocking or ridicule (nowhere on UM IS that place!) so stay civil.

No offense to any of the mods, but if all this is true, at what point exactly can someone be considered to be roleplaying, or trolling, or telling the truth??  Both roleplaying and trolling are outlawed on these boards.  How can these be differentiated by someone who truly believes, or even has these abilities, without asking for some sort of proof??  If someone truly can do, or believes they can do what they claim, then some sort of proof should be offered to back up their claims, otherwise how are the rest of us supposed to know who we can discuss the topic seriously with, and who are the roleplayers?  Plus, hasn't the aquatus been gently pumping him for some sort of proof the last few posts??

[Kazahel]

HerNibs, on 07 May 2010 - 02:57 PM, said:

Yeah, so does a warm bath but doesn't cost nearly as much.  Reiki doesn't advertise itself as a "placebo", it advertises itself as  -

I didnt say it was a placebo.. I said even if it was a placebo it still has value. Even matt kind of agrees.

HerNibs, on 07 May 2010 - 02:57 PM, said:

If a person is depressed and opts for Reiki rather than counseling and medication, it is dangerous.

Well where I learnt it they never taught us to only use reiki.  We were taught to use it as an extra helper.

HerNibs, on 07 May 2010 - 02:57 PM, said:

Huh?  Don't know what you are talking about.

The statement is just that, a statement.

A belief, regardless of how strong it is or how many believe does NOT make it real.

Easter Bunny as an example.

Nibs

Well some people that get anxiety for example can actually effect their own body. So the belief in something will fool the body to feel a physical effect. Like how anxiety sufferes get the 'lump in throat' feeling. Its only a belief.. but the body feels it anyway. And it works both ways.. thats why placebos work.

[HerNibs]

Kazahel, on 07 May 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

I didnt say it was a placebo.. I said even if it was a placebo it still has value. Even matt kind of agrees.

Ok.

My point is that the it isn't billed as a placebo.  It is billed as a solution.

From here

Quote

Reiki is a simple, natural and safe method of spiritual healing and self-improvement that everyone can use. It has been effective in helping virtually every known illness and malady and always creates a beneficial effect. It also works in conjunction with all other medical or therapeutic techniques to relieve side effects and promote recovery.

From here

Quote

# Creates deep relaxation and aids the body to release stress and tension,
# It accelerates the bodie's self-healing abilities,
# Aids better sleep,
# Reduces blood pressure
# Can help with accute (injuries) and chronic problems (asthma, eczema, headaches, etc.) and aides the breaking of addictions,
# Helps relieve pain,
# Removes energy blockages, adjusts the energy flow of the endocrine system bringing the body into balance and harmony,
# Assists the body in cleaning itself from toxins,
# Reduces some of the side effects of drugs and helps the body to recover from drug therapy after surgery and chemotherapy,
# Supports the immune system,
# Increases vitality and postpones the aging process,
# Raises the vibrational frequency of the body,
# Helps spiritual growth and emotional clearing

This is not something that considers itself a placebo.  It is advertising itself as a solution.  That is dangerous.

Quote

Well where I learnt it they never taught us to only use reiki.  We were taught to use it as an extra helper.

Ok.

Quote

Well some people that get anxiety for example can actually effect their own body. So the belief in something will fool the body to feel a physical effect. Like how anxiety sufferes get the 'lump in throat' feeling. Its only a belief.. but the body feels it anyway. And it works both ways.. thats why placebos work.

I suffer from panic attacks, OCD, anxiety and a bunch of other little mental tics.  Medication is what helps me.  It is a REAL medical condition that would not be handled without the meds.  

I do meditate but not in any type of spiritual or mystic way.  It is a time where I sit quietly, listen to my breathing and heartbeat and try to relax.  I also practice a variety of other "relaxation techniques" to try to calm myself out of a panic attack or anxiety attack.

A belief that "fools the body" is still dangerous.

I would love for any of this to be of use.  I would love to not have to take pills or to not end up shaking in a ball on the floor of the bathroom because my serotonin levels are a mess.

Nibs

[King Of Agony]

Moonie2012, on 05 May 2010 - 07:05 PM, said:

Nightwalker's claims are just going beyond anything that can be taken seriously anymore. Not only does he have a constantly growing list of insane psi-powers, but so do half the people in his school.

I don't understand why his threads are allowed to continue. It's obvious that he's doing a bit of role-playing at the forum's expense. There are websites that welcome such games, but UM doesn't.

Because some are capable of non linear thinking and that is what metaphysical based forums are for, the topic is posted under the pretense of the subject matter being subjectively tangible yet there continues to be a preponderance of those that feel that is it obligatory that they infuse their redundant, repetitious close minded ideology into the mix over and over and over and over and over and over....

Bad news, I'm back  

[HerNibs]

Just to be up front about this...

I would LOVE for this mystical energy to exist.  I would love to find out that some individuals are actually capable of making energy emit from their hands and that this energy is something that can have an effect on our bodies or physical world.  I have been to various practitioners of all kinds of different beliefs.  NEVER have I had any do anything that made a change in my physical or mental self other than what an average massage does.

I do have to mention that 667 addressed many of my own concerns about posting in this area of the forum.

Nibs

[Kazahel]

Quote

Reduces blood pressure
# Can help with accute (injuries) and chronic problems (asthma, eczema, headaches, etc.) and aides the breaking of addictions,
# Helps relieve pain,
# Removes energy blockages, adjusts the energy flow of the endocrine system bringing the body into balance and harmony,

These were the ones you put in bold.

*Reducing blood pressure is done by calming yourself down yes. Which reiki is good for.

*Can help with breaking addictions and injuries etc... yup it sure can.. like meditation does.

*Helps relieves pain... yup... like meditation.

*Removed energy blockages... well if you dont believe in that stuff anyway then it doesnt matter.


Also you say it is advertising itself as a 'solution' when it seems to be just saying that it helps with, supports and assists with. "It also works in conjunction with all other medical or therapeutic techniques to relieve side effects and promote recovery."

HerNibs, on 07 May 2010 - 03:35 PM, said:

I suffer from panic attacks, OCD, anxiety and a bunch of other little mental tics.  Medication is what helps me.  It is a REAL medical condition that would not be handled without the meds.  

I do meditate but not in any type of spiritual or mystic way.  It is a time where I sit quietly, listen to my breathing and heartbeat and try to relax.  I also practice a variety of other "relaxation techniques" to try to calm myself out of a panic attack or anxiety attack.

I would love for any of this to be of use.  I would love to not have to take pills or to not end up shaking in a ball on the floor of the bathroom because my serotonin levels are a mess.

Nibs

Maybe you should try using reiki with your medication then since you already find meditating useful. It cant hurt.

[King Of Agony]

HerNibs, on 07 May 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

Just to be up front about this...

I would LOVE for this mystical energy to exist.  I would love to find out that some individuals are actually capable of making energy emit from their hands and that this energy is something that can have an effect on our bodies or physical world.  I have been to various practitioners of all kinds of different beliefs.  NEVER have I had any do anything that made a change in my physical or mental self other than what an average massage does.

I do have to mention that 667 addressed many of my own concerns about posting in this area of the forum.

Nibs

Perhaps you have been visiting the wrong practitioners.

although I could visit 10 different gymnastic coaches and still never master the standing back-flip  

some have it, some don't

Edited by King Of Agony, 07 May 2010 - 03:55 PM.

[HerNibs]

*sigh*

Ok, we are reading it differently and going in circles.  Getting nowhere.  There is a reason science doesn't recognize any of this, it isn't real.  It is something people convince themselves is working which is NOT the same as an actual treatment.

My meditation doesn't cost anything nor do I need some specialized guru to teach me how to do it.

Nibs

[HerNibs]

King Of Agony, on 07 May 2010 - 03:54 PM, said:

Perhaps you have been visiting the wrong practitioners.

although I could visit 10 different gymnastic coaches and still never master the standing back-flip  

some have it, some don't

1.  There is no part of human biology that is capable of creating or emitting any type of "energy" that can effect the physical world.

2.  There is no evidence of the existence of ki, chi, psionics or any other kind of mystical energy.

So, it doesn't matter which practitioner I have or have not visited (you're making an assumption that is far from accurate).

My daughter has spina bifida, no matter WHAT coach she sees, she will NEVER do a standing back-flip.  

Some CAN'T have "it".  Biology doesn't allow for it.


Nibs

Edited by HerNibs, 07 May 2010 - 04:06 PM.