131 replies to this topic

[AsteroidX]

mahybe we can stop it by having a small early xmas. Im not much in the mood of the DAY this year. Too much sorrow in heart for that. Im lucky my son wont be here xmas day.  So were doing it early. And shh dont tell him I wrapped none of his presents. Hes got just the clear packaging as wrapping paper.


A sign of the times.

[ciriuslea]

me-wonders, on 22 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

How many cultures have your experienced?

OK to any real extent....just my own, but how many cultures have zero violent crimes or murder rate ?
I understand what your saying some cultures are far worse, South American and South African being two of them in terms of murder rates,

http://nitawriter.wo...ts-of-world/  
Trying to find a definitive study on worldwide violent crime is hard and would probably differ depending on agenda like most studies do, but I liked this one

[docyabut2]

'me-wonders - qoute-

However, for the Ten Commandments, it troubles me that in our culture people of know them but not of Aztec and Buddhist equivalents.  We do not know of Zoroastrianism and Hinduism.   That is to say, we do not realize the good side of our human nature, and therefore, it is hard to manifest.   I think there are problems starting with a religion that claims to be God's chosen people, where preachers preach to their flocks  to be afraid of, and to avoid, the pagans and heathens, and tells them how they must protect their school and community for Christians, and then tells everyone to bring someone new to church next Sunday.    I love shaking these preacher's hands as we walk out of the church, and with a smile informing them, I am one of the pagans.

Wars are wars and there will always a war over something:) however kids should know where we got the laws of  the courts, do not kill, steal, cheat or lie from, that they would be punish for. Even  Buddhisn and other religions agree the ten commandants are a code of behavior. Jesus Christ`s principles are necessary to, love one another. Ive study just about all the religions and like they say there is something good in all of them that could over come all this evilness that would unite people.

[me-wonders]

ciriuslea, on 22 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

OK to any real extent....just my own, but how many cultures have zero violent crimes or murder rate ?
I understand what your saying some cultures are far worse, South American and South African being two of them in terms of murder rates,

http://nitawriter.wo....ts-of-world/  
Trying to find a definitive study on worldwide violent crime is hard and would probably differ depending on agenda like most studies do, but I liked this one

ciriuslea, on 22 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

OK to any real extent....just my own, but how many cultures have zero violent crimes or murder rate ?
I understand what your saying some cultures are far worse, South American and South African being two of them in terms of murder rates,

http://nitawriter.wo....ts-of-world/  
Trying to find a definitive study on worldwide violent crime is hard and would probably differ depending on agenda like most studies do, but I liked this one

I have to applaud your efforts!  I gave up the hurt, because immediately I was overwhelmed by prejudice of links, that were so self centered on ourselves I want to throw up.  Perhaps the search would have gone better before the school shooting.

On the good side, at least plenty of people are thinking about culture and violence.  The down side is the first thing that comes up is not aboriginal cultures.  The portrayal of the aboriginal people in the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" may not be good science, but it let's us know of cultures more different from our own than France and Japan.   The cultures in your link are basically the same competitive, industrialist cultures.   Interesting is the cultures that developed technology, begin with a creation story involving violence.  Often brothers killing each other.   Always humans dominating.  As opposed to non violent creation and deer being our brothers.  These non aggressive people retreat from the aggressive ones, and are eventually are destroyed.  So much as contact with us, destroys their cultures.

[me-wonders]

docyabut2, on 23 December 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

'me-wonders - qoute-

However, for the Ten Commandments, it troubles me that in our culture people of know them but not of Aztec and Buddhist equivalents.  We do not know of Zoroastrianism and Hinduism.   That is to say, we do not realize the good side of our human nature, and therefore, it is hard to manifest.   I think there are problems starting with a religion that claims to be God's chosen people, where preachers preach to their flocks  to be afraid of, and to avoid, the pagans and heathens, and tells them how they must protect their school and community for Christians, and then tells everyone to bring someone new to church next Sunday.    I love shaking these preacher's hands as we walk out of the church, and with a smile informing them, I am one of the pagans.

Wars are wars and there will always a war over something:) however kids should know where we got the laws of  the courts, do not kill, steal, cheat or lie from, that they would be punish for. Even  Buddhisn and other religions agree the ten commandants are a code of behavior. Jesus Christ`s principles are necessary to, love one another. Ive study just about all the religions and like they say there is something good in all of them that could over come all this evilness that would unite people.

Are you understanding the equivalents of the 10 commandments are independent of Christianity?  Jesus Christ's principles are common reasoning, and not dependent on having a Christian understanding of them.  However, there does need to be social agreements such as those once manifested through public education, and also inherent in some of the Native American cultures.   The idealist who risked everything for democracy were literate in Greek and Roman classics and understood the importance of culture and mass education.  Starting with the first world war, education was pulled away from its cultural purpose, and taken completely off its culture purpose, in 1958, when we began educating for a technological society with unknown values, and left moral training to the church.  This was a huge mistake!!!

Unfortunately, Jesus Christ comes with a jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing God, the God of Abraham who has favorites, and King David's war God.  By the way, King David was so powerful because of mines and slave labor that provided the revenue for buildings and a military,  not because of a God.   If we insist one religion is the only true knowledge of God and principles, or the superior understanding of such things, we create some serious problems.  War is one of those problems, and today, our entire nation is a Military Industrial Complex, just like the one we defeated, and religion has encouraged this, instead of leading us away from it.  This is why I brought up the issue of culture.

Another problem with insisting the God of Abraham is the one and only true God, is it prevents people from believing there is a God.   This results in atheist and this is another problem.  

Mostly I dislike Christianity because of what it does to our understanding of morality and democracy.  A moral is a matter of cause and effect, and it is because we are capable of knowing cause and effect, that we can govern ourselves.   Also this understanding leads to the highest moral judgement, because quite obviously that reasoning means we do our best to do the right thing, is knowing bad will happen if we do the wrong thing.  No prayers, burning of candles or sacrifices to a God, can change the law of cause and effect.   I don't think it is a good thing to believe prayers and such can make it possible for us to violate the natures of nature.   I think this thinking has lead to many serious problems.   Such as praying to a God to resolve our problems instead of taking responsibility for resolving them ourselves.  Or supporting war and war machine because our kind has always engaged wars, and not giving this a second thought.  If we think this through, I think we can have a better understanding of what happened to Germany.   The country we have imitated in every important way.  

Right now, we asking what went wrong?  How did we come to a young man entering a school with locked doors and killing so many people?  How might we prevent this from happening in the future? I think it is pretty obvious, the killer and his mother were isolated even though they went to a church!!!!  Many years ago someone wrote a book "The Lonely Crowd".  In 1835 Tocqueville warned us of the fearful conditions of over population and isolation within this mass of humanity.  Falling back on religion and all the beliefs that involves, is not how to discover it is germs killing people and spreading infections, not people possessed by demons, and it is not how to understand and prevent mass murders, but how many Christians are thinking beyond their religious understanding of evil?

[Seeker79]

WoIverine, on 18 December 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Microsoft is also aware...the Xbox has time limits and age limits that can be set via parental controls.  

The most fun I ever had while playing games...didn't come from violent titles, it came from playing Mario Kart with my dad and friends at home. Good times...was so much fun.

Per this conversation, I have purchased a WII, for the kids for christmass. I figure comprimise is always the best option, and ultimately I'd rather be in the loop than out of it. Thanks.

[docyabut2]

me-wonders, on 23 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Are you understanding the equivalents of the 10 commandments are independent of Christianity?  Jesus Christ's principles are common reasoning, and not dependent on having a Christian understanding of them.  However, there does need to be social agreements such as those once manifested through public education, and also inherent in some of the Native American cultures.   The idealist who risked everything for democracy were literate in Greek and Roman classics and understood the importance of culture and mass education.  Starting with the first world war, education was pulled away from its cultural purpose, and taken completely off its culture purpose, in 1958, when we began educating for a technological society with unknown values, and left moral training to the church.  This was a huge mistake!!!

Unfortunately, Jesus Christ comes with a jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing God, the God of Abraham who has favorites, and King David's war God.  By the way, King David was so powerful because of mines and slave labor that provided the revenue for buildings and a military,  not because of a God.   If we insist one religion is the only true knowledge of God and principles, or the superior understanding of such things, we create some serious problems.  War is one of those problems, and today, our entire nation is a Military Industrial Complex, just like the one we defeated, and religion has encouraged this, instead of leading us away from it.  This is why I brought up the issue of culture.

Another problem with insisting the God of Abraham is the one and only true God, is it prevents people from believing there is a God.   This results in atheist and this is another problem.  

Mostly I dislike Christianity because of what it does to our understanding of morality and democracy.  A moral is a matter of cause and effect, and it is because we are capable of knowing cause and effect, that we can govern ourselves.   Also this understanding leads to the highest moral judgement, because quite obviously that reasoning means we do our best to do the right thing, is knowing bad will happen if we do the wrong thing.  No prayers, burning of candles or sacrifices to a God, can change the law of cause and effect.   I don't think it is a good thing to believe prayers and such can make it possible for us to violate the natures of nature.   I think this thinking has lead to many serious problems.   Such as praying to a God to resolve our problems instead of taking responsibility for resolving them ourselves.  Or supporting war and war machine because our kind has always engaged wars, and not giving this a second thought.  If we think this through, I think we can have a better understanding of what happened to Germany.   The country we have imitated in every important way.  

Right now, we asking what went wrong?  How did we come to a young man entering a school with locked doors and killing so many people?  How might we prevent this from happening in the future? I think it is pretty obvious, the killer and his mother were isolated even though they went to a church!!!!  Many years ago someone wrote a book "The Lonely Crowd".  In 1835 Tocqueville warned us of the fearful conditions of over population and isolation within this mass of humanity.  Falling back on religion and all the beliefs that involves, is not how to discover it is germs killing people and spreading infections, not people possessed by demons, and it is not how to understand and prevent mass murders, but how many Christians are thinking beyond their religious understanding of evil?

Jesus said he did not come to change the laws but add to them. Maybe my youth was in the time of the  50`s  when after all the horriable wars,  people placed the ten commandants in society of better behavior, but there was less crime. Ever since they started taking the ten commandants out of the schools ect, crime is at a all time high. After 911 the churchs were  all crowded again,  you talked of cause and effect.

[Render]

Seeker79, on 21 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Interesting, so you are saying it dosnt happen there because they are even more desensitized.

Nobody shoots up schools, because no one is going to be that shocked?  In Mexico, they kill people for more practical reasons and leave the kids alone?

Interesting.

I wasn't saying anything. Merely posting information about Alarma and how they more sensibilized to death and cruelty.
Now, it could be that shootings don't happen there because either they already have enough violence and enough deaths that there is no need for a wacko to go shoot up the remaining population for no apparant reason.
Or either because it already happens so much they don't think it would have any effect to sellfishly kill some extra ppl.

[me-wonders]

docyabut2, on 25 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Jesus said he did not come to change the laws but add to them. Maybe my youth was in the time of the  50`s  when after all the horriable wars,  people placed the ten commandants in society of better behavior, but there was less crime. Ever since they started taking the ten commandants out of the schools ect, crime is at a all time high. After 911 the churchs were  all crowded again,  you talked of cause and effect.

I remember the 50tys.  I was in school when the 1958 National Defense Education Act, replaced liberal education with education for a technological society with unknown values.  The social ramifications of this act have been mixed.  There is so much we could talk about.

It annoys me that the media has talked about the young man's mother, but not the father who walked out.   We know children of divorced parents are at higher risk, yet when something goes wrong, it is only the mother we talk about?   The industrial society took the father away from the family for the work day.  The technological society with unknown values has really devastated families.

[Beany]

I just declared my facebook page a gun free zone. No more in my face postings by gun advocates that consist of pictures of weapons and the paranoid notion that they need those guns for self-defense, that gun control means weapons confiscation, and that armed citizens can do the same policing jobs as trained law enforcement. And the stupid idea we all need to arms ourselves in order to avoid gun violence. I've never owned a gun, I don't expose myself to violent movies & TV shows, I've never believed that arms escalation would ever solve the problems around gun violence. Sheesh, when I made the post i felt like I had just outed myself. But, you know, gotta walk the talk, even if it will tick people off.

Edited by Beany, 29 December 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[sutemi]

It is so sad to hear of the firemen murdered while doing their job, will the US gun lobby call for armed firemen, armoured ambulances/ buses/ delivery vans/taxis, all children to have guns and body armour? What a position for any country to be in, millions of guns in a fractured society where all that matters is money (like most western societies). The saying ‘Up a creek without a paddle comes to mind’. So sad that we have created such a mess of this beautiful world, it maybe that we will not accept the badly needed changes until the consequences are so bad we are forced too, but then it may well be too late. This world needs Peace, wake up world, for the sake of all our children.  

“Its odd how those who dismiss the Peace movement as utopian don’t hesitate to proffer the most dreamy reasons for going to war, to stamp out terrorism, install democracy, eliminate fascism and most delusionally to ‘rid the world of evil doers” Arundhati Roy

Edited by sutemi, 29 December 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Render]

Genetics May Provide Clues to Newtown Shooting

Quote

As people around the world struggle to make sense of recent mass murders like the school shooting in Newtown, Conn., genetic researchers are also getting involved. The DNA of the shooter in the Newtown case, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, will be examined to determine if he possessed any genetic abnormalities that could have led to his violent behavior.
Connecticut Chief Medical Examiner H. Wayne Carver, who carried out post-mortem examinations on the victims of the Newtown shooting, ordered the DNA testing, according to the Daily Mail. University of Connecticut geneticists will conduct the research, which may include sequencing Lanza's entire genome to determine if he had any mutations in his DNA.

http://www.livescien...hooter-dna.html