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Forced religion

forced religion

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158 replies to this topic

#151    freetoroam

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Fortuanltely i live in a small country town  without a govt scientist in cooee. I keep my head down and stay off govt lists etc as much as a govt employee can do, I learnt the dangers of disclosure at a very early age when i was first brought to the notice of authorities.  Like lazurus Long i considered hiding my identity as it became necessary for the govt to know more and more about us all, but eventualy i decided i only had to  hide what I am, not who I am.
We were only misbehaving while you were away. :innocent:
PS: when you say what you are? is that like a physical thing or working thing?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#152    Orcseeker

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:26 PM

View PostEtu Malku, on 28 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I agree with you, but let's examine this closer.
There was a time when 'stealing' was surviving, men took other men's belongings, women, residences, countries, etc. Because it was best for 'their' tribe and its survival.

So we have morals & ethics that pertain time periods and we see that these standards change with cultural periods and such. In essence there are no universal ethical & moral standards . . . we make them up as we go along!

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the
time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong. Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.


#153    Sean93

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:39 PM

View PostOrcseeker, on 29 November 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong. Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.

.

Edited by Sean93, 30 November 2012 - 12:22 AM.

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

#154    Sean93

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:48 AM

Sorry about that ^

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

#155    Etu Malku

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

View PostOrcseeker, on 29 November 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the
time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong.
You're not getting it, taking from another was not considered wrong, it was considered "might". Today it is of course because we live in a predominantly pseudo democracy/socialism society around the world.

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Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.
By "who's" Principle? See you are speaking strictly from a religious mindset still.

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#156    Mr Walker

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:44 AM

View PostOrcseeker, on 28 November 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

But your main contention to what you say here has to do with things like teaching a child it is wrong to steal, which in principle it is wrong to steal, that is universally accepted. That it is good to value family and bad to discriminate against certain people etc. All justified universal truths. These are which I am all for.

However, as far as religion goes, I believe that should remain a choice to the individual and solely them once they are capable of making such a decision.
The concept that it is wrong to steal is far from universal. Indigenous australians ahd no concept of personal property and thus no concept of theft. Apache indians and others held the abilty to st.eal as one of the highest attributes a man could have Theft of property only became an issue in "civilised societes" where people bean to accrue personal possessions and property .
This is just another belief system. like religious based beliefs. Most religious based beliefs correspond to the basic beliefs of the society in which the religion exists.

Hence judaeo christian beliefs coresponded to, and formed the basis for western law, for nearly two millenia. That is because  judaism, and settled agrarian civilization, began about the same time in one place. The jews borrowed/adopted, many beliefs and laws from babylon and egypt, both emerging civilizations. Christian laws and rules matched the social and economic realities and expectaions of people in such civilised, agrarian based, societies Hence they were integrated with civil laws and expectaions.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#157    Mr Walker

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

View PostOrcseeker, on 29 November 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

Regardless of moral and ethical standards at the
time, stealing is taking from another without their consent, that is wrong. Perhaps an action to be performed for survival at some times in history but by principle it is wrong.
No. There is no absolute morality like that, not even today. Humans construct ethical beliefs and values, and then base their moralities around them. Ethics are ALWAYS embedded in the social, economic, and other realities of a time and place. There is no universal morality about killing or stealing or any other action.  It depends on the social context. What is  considered wrong today most certainly may not have been wrong 100 years ago or a thousand or ten thousand. It is illogical and ego centric to seek to impose our moralities over those of the past, as if we are superior to them. To ilustrate this point, jump forward 100 or 500 years. Our moralities will be considered wrong, and probably evil and stupid, to those people, because they will live in a very different reality.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#158    Mr Walker

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:00 AM

View Postfreetoroam, on 29 November 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

We were only misbehaving while you were away. :innocent:
PS: when you say what you are? is that like a physical thing or working thing?
I mean i only had to hide my spidey powers from people not the fact that i existed among them :innocent:  so as long as I hide what I am, i can live comfortably and safely among the multitude. But, like lazarus long, if people discovered he was virtually immortal, they would have been all over him, so he had to hide what he was, not who he was.

This probably helps explain my life long interest in marvel comic characters, like peter parker, who are often in the same boat.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#159    freetoroam

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:25 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 30 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

I mean i only had to hide my spidey powers from people not the fact that i existed among them :innocent:  so as long as I hide what I am, i can live comfortably and safely among the multitude. But, like lazarus long, if people discovered he was virtually immortal, they would have been all over him, so he had to hide what he was, not who he was.

This probably helps explain my life long interest in marvel comic characters, like peter parker, who are often in the same boat.
never heard of him before, but see that he lived a long time, sort of like the fictional characters in the beginning of genesis, they lived for a few hundred years.
:innocent:

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.





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