Jackie Kennedy Tapes Released

[Rafterman]

Do you have any idea how many death threats a president happens to receive on a regular basis?

There are thousands.

This is like saying that the Government should have known about 9/11 because of the August 2001 memo, while ignoring the fact that there hundreds of such threat assessment memos in any given year.

[TheMcGuffin]

Do you have any idea how many death threats a president happens to receive on a regular basis?

There are thousands.

This is like saying that the Government should have known about 9/11 because of the August 2001 memo, while ignoring the fact that there hundreds of such threat assessment memos in any given year.

He received three death threats on his trip to Ireland, and the government took maximum security precautions, which were noticeably absent in Dallas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6216973.stm

The KKK made numerous death threats against the president, and the Klansman Joseph Milteer was among those discussing an assassination plot in Miami:

http://www.impiousdigest.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20

There was a plot to assassinate JFK in Tampa, Florida, which the FBI also had on tape:

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Many_US_Government_Files_about_JFK_and_King_Assassinations_Still_Secret

These are justt a few of them, in addition to the well-known threats from the Mafia, Jimmy Hoffa and the anti-Castro Cubans. I can see why JFK was fatalistic about someone getting him eventually.

[unclefred]

Thanks to the documents discovered by the ARRB in the nineties, we now know that Oswald was an FBI informant in 1963, we know that he possessed a Department of Defense ID card when arrested. The same type of card issued to civilian contractors, such as found on downed U2 pilot Francis Gary Powers, CIA. Both facts omitted from the record by the FBI and the Warren whitewash. LBJ, on the record and concealed for years, was advised by Hoover that Oswald was impersonated on the phone at the Embassy in Mexico, and that the photos supplied by the CIA were not Oswald. Those photos are still in the record. Within 48 hours Hoover advised Johnson to stick with the lone shooter story to avoid possible serious international consequences. Hoover was aware of oswalds agency ties, and the threats against JFK in Dallas. We also know that the CIA did indeed infiltrate the Garrison investigation. We also know that Garrisons accusation of Clay Shaw being a CIA asset were genuine. Denied of course, by everyone at trial. We also now have a photo of Oswald and David Ferrie together in the Civil Air Patrol. Also denied at the time, and alleged that Ferrie never met Oswald. The FBI has Carlos Marchelo on secret tape admitting his part in the assassination. He also mentions Ferrie, Ruby and Oswald. This also was withheld from the public for decades. Despite the baffling array of details in the many theories of who the assassins were and how it came together, it is pretty obvious that it was no 'lone nut' and the coverup of the events had been exposed.

Edited August 30, 2011 by unclefred

[Liquidburn]

What happened is very unfortunate. I think the federal government is probably similar to a Hydra. If the Bush family had never risen to power, or were stopped like you say, chances are, another, or two more would take it's place.

The US government is like Hydra? Really? Does that mean Obama is Red Skull?

[WoIverine]

The US government is like Hydra? Really? Does that mean Obama is Red Skull?

LOL! No, I meant the mythological Hydra creature. I digg your Hydra reference though!

[MID]

This FBI document from November 29, 1963 refers to George Bush as a member of the Central Intelligence Agency and also an informant who has provided "reliable information in the past." It also mentions, oddly, that he is close to a pro-Castro group in the Miami area? No, I don't have all the answers, that's for sure, but there it is:

It refers to a "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency...".

Can you show that the George Bush referred to was George H.W. Bush, who was, in 1963, President of Zapata Offshore Company based out of Houston, Texas, and who wouldn't be involved with the CIA until President Ford appointed him to that position 13 years later???

[TheMcGuffin]

It refers to a "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency...".

Can you show that the George Bush referred to was George H.W. Bush, who was, in 1963, President of Zapata Offshore Company based out of Houston, Texas, and who wouldn't be involved with the CIA until President Ford appointed him to that position 13 years later???

Mainly by process of elimination in that the only other George Bush employed by the CIA at that time was a low-level analyst not a field operative, while the George H.W. Bush we know of was involved in Operation Mongoose against Cuba, familiar with the Miami Cubans, warned JFK of an assassination plot in Houston and then went to Dallas on the day of the assassination. Later, he reported to Washington and even spoke with Hoover at the FBI.

This indicates to me that he was much more than just head of an oil company, although his real role in the assassination remains murky. Was he trying to prevent it or taking part in it? Did he have some role in covering it up or trying to figure out what really happened?

We don't know since George H.W. Bush denied he was the man mentioned in these documents and said he could not remember what he was doing on the day of the assassination. We now know he was in Dallas that day, and it seems to me that his memory would have to be extremely faulty indeed not to recall something like that.

[MID]

Mainly by process of elimination in that the only other George Bush employed by the CIA at that time was a low-level analyst not a field operative, while the George H.W. Bush we know of was involved in Operation Mongoose against Cuba, familiar with the Miami Cubans, warned JFK of an assassination plot in Houston and then went to Dallas on the day of the assassination. Later, he reported to Washington and even spoke with Hoover at the FBI.

This indicates to me that he was much more than just head of an oil company, although his real role in the assassination remains murky. Was he trying to prevent it or taking part in it? Did he have some role in covering it up or trying to figure out what really happened?

We don't know since George H.W. Bush denied he was the man mentioned in these documents and said he could not remember what he was doing on the day of the assassination. We now know he was in Dallas that day, and it seems to me that his memory would have to be extremely faulty indeed not to recall something like that.

I was asking if you could show some sort of substantiation for your contention. Not simply the way you interpret what you think you read. Process of elimination?

Who else was eliminated?

It's not really all that important.

I'm just curious where you come off putting out declarative statements without any support?

[WoIverine]

Mainly by process of elimination in that the only other George Bush employed by the CIA at that time was a low-level analyst not a field operative, while the George H.W. Bush we know of was involved in Operation Mongoose against Cuba, familiar with the Miami Cubans, warned JFK of an assassination plot in Houston and then went to Dallas on the day of the assassination. Later, he reported to Washington and even spoke with Hoover at the FBI.

This indicates to me that he was much more than just head of an oil company, although his real role in the assassination remains murky. Was he trying to prevent it or taking part in it? Did he have some role in covering it up or trying to figure out what really happened?

We don't know since George H.W. Bush denied he was the man mentioned in these documents and said he could not remember what he was doing on the day of the assassination. We now know he was in Dallas that day, and it seems to me that his memory would have to be extremely faulty indeed not to recall something like that.

Wow, very Bruce Wayne, nice work, detective.

You must have a substantial understanding of the events.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Spid3rCyd3

[TheMcGuffin]

I was asking if you could show some sort of substantiation for your contention. Not simply the way you interpret what you think you read. Process of elimination?

Who else was eliminated?

It's not really all that important.

I'm just curious where you come off putting out declarative statements without any support?

The only other CIA employee by that name was George William Bush, who denied under oath that he was the person mentioned in the document, or that he had ever received any information about the JFK assassination.

"George William Bush had indeed worked for the CIA, the DIA, and the Alexandria, Virginia Department of Public Welfare before joining the Social Security Administration, in whose Arlington, Virginia office he was employed as a claims representative in 1988. George William Bush told The Nation that while at the CIA he was "just a lowly researcher and analyst" who worked with documents and photos and never received interagency briefings. He had never met Forsyth of the FBI or Captain Edwards of the DIA. "So it wasn't me," said George William Bush. 21

Later, George William Bush formalized his denial in a sworn statement to a federal court in Washington, DC. The affidavit acknowledges that while working at CIA headquarters between September 1963 and February 1964, George William Bush was the junior person on a three to four man watch shift which was on duty when Kennedy was shot. But, as George William Bush goes on to say,

I have carefully reviewed the FBI memorandum to the Director, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Department of State dated November 29, 1963 which mentions a Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency....I do not recognize the contents of the memorandum as information furnished to me orally or otherwise during the time I was at the CIA. In fact, during my time at the CIA. I did not receive any oral communications from any government agency of any nature whatsoever. I did not receive any information relating to the Kennedy assassination during my time at the CIA from the FBI.

Based on the above, it is my conclusion that I am not the Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency referred to in the memorandum. 22

So we are left with the strong suspicion that the "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" referred to by the FBI is our own George Herbert Walker Bush, who, in addition to his possible contact with Lee Harvey Oswald's controller, may thus also join the ranks of the Kennedy assassination cover-up. It makes perfect sense for George Bush to be called in on a matter involving the Cuban community in Miami, since that is a place where George has traditionally had a constituency. George inherited it from his father, Prescott Bush of Jupiter Island, and later passed it on to his own son, Jeb."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=964

Edited September 2, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[TheMcGuffin]

I'm just curious where you come off putting out declarative statements without any support?

You forgot who I am, and that I always know what I'm talking about. If I don't, I say nothing.

There are even people who place Bush in Dallas the night before the assassination, at a party in the home of oil baron Clint Murchison, also attended by Nixon, Hoover and LBJ. For that matter, there is even a picture that places Bush in Dealy Plaza at the time of the shooting, but I don't know if that's true.

http://tomflocco.com/fs/FbiMemoPhotoLinkBushJfk.htm

Is this George H.W. Bush? I don't know. It's just a question, but I do think that he was affiliated with the CIA long before he became its boss.

http://tomflocco.com/Docs/63/BushJfkBookDepo.htm

Edited September 2, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[MID]

You forgot who I am, and that I always know what I'm talking about. If I don't, I say nothing.

Oh...

Forgive me for not remembering "who you are" (someone can help me remember who you are?), and that you always know what you'retalking about.

i think we all know what you're inferring via your interpretations. Official bodies do this all the time when investigating such matters. They are led to believe, they draw inference from circumstances, etc., etc...

None of it proves anything.

It's just a matter of interest...something to discuss over a beer.

I should perhaps know better than to think you understood that, and that the appropriate response to me asking for proof was to say that you had none, because there is none.

Thanks.

Next time, I'll remember who you are!

Edited September 2, 2011 by MID

[TheMcGuffin]

Oh...

Forgive me for not remembering "who you are" (someone can help me remember who you are?), and that you always know what you're talking about.

I forgive you. Forgiveness comes with the press of a button, after all.

[MID]

I forgive you. Forgiveness comes with the press of a button, after all.

Well, that's one way of avoiding addressing my post.

But it doesn't matter either.

[The Silver Thong]

Well, that's one way of avoiding addressing my post.

But it doesn't matter either.

However there seems to be evidience from both sides. One just has the backing of the official case to back it. Kinda makes it easy for those that go with the official story. The JFK assasination by no means went down the way we have been told. Of course it`s just my opinion and the conflicting story to make me think such a thing.

[TheMcGuffin]

Well, that's one way of avoiding addressing my post.

But it doesn't matter either.

Even you think it was a conspiracy, judging by your past posts. I have good reason to think it was as well. We certainly have two documents here that associate Bush with the assassination and with the CIA. I don't know why that seems to bother you so much, since Bush has always been the insider's insider. It was the CIA who said that the man mentioned in the document must have been George William Bush, but he denied it under oath in federal court.

"When the document first surfaced no one paid much attention to it. When the presidential campaigns began for the 1980 election then the name George Bush caught researchers' eyes. When asked about the memo, Bush denied working for the CIA at the time. As evidence built that it was indeed him, the CIA claimed it was a different George Bush although their policy had always been to neither confirm nor deny a person's employment. The other George Bush was tracked down by reporters and said that although he did work for the CIA at the time, he was never involved in that sort of work. The interesting point is that the CIA did not bother to contact the other George Bush and inform him that reporters might soon be calling. Other evidence surfaced that showed the George Bush mentioned in the document was actually George H. W. Bush and had the same address as the famous George Bush.

Another Bush connection involved George de Mohrenschildt, a rich Russian oil man who lived in Texas when Lee Harvey Oswald settled there after his trip to the Soviet Union. De Mohrenschildt was a long-time CIA agent and quite possibly served as a CIA control officer for Oswald. The Warren Commission described him and his wife as being the two people friendliest to Oswald at the time of the assassination. De Mohrenschildt's son-in-law told the Warren Commission that if any- one had helped with the assassination it was most likely de Mohrenschildt. De Mohrenschildt was also the man who moved Oswald to Dallas.

Shortly before the House Select Committee on Assassinations started meeting in the late 1970's a new doctor appeared in de Mohrenschildt's town. De Mohrenschildt started seeing him and quickly became mentally unstable. His wife convinced him to stop seeing the doctor. The doctor then moved away and left a false forwarding address. The very day the Committee tried to contact de Mohrenschildt about testifying, he was found dead of a gun shot wound. His personal address book was found and it contained the entry "Bush, George H. W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland." Bush's full name is George Herbert Walker Bush which matches the initials given and his earlier oil company was named Zapata Petroleum Corp. Why was his name in de Mohrenschildt's book? Is "Poppy" his CIA code name?

It is known that in the early 1960's de Mohrenschildt made frequent trips to Houston, which was the location of Bush's home. He told friends he was visiting the Brown brothers, who were close friends and financial supporters of Lyndon Johnson. CIA documents reveal that during the planning phase of Operation Zapata, de Mohrenschildt made frequent trips to Mexico and Panama and gave reports to the CIA. His son-in-law told the Warren Commission that he believed de Mohrenschildt was spying for the planned Cuban invasion."

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/ohwhy/Bush.html

George de Mohrenschildt, a Right-wing, anti-Communist Russian and CIA agent becomes friends with Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas? How does that make sense at all if Oswald is a pro-Castro Communist who defected to the Soviet Union, divulged classified information, and then was allowed to return to the US without any great fuss?

Does any of that make sense at all? De Mohrenschildt "committed suicide" before testifying to the House Assassinations Committee but was probably murdered. I think he was a CIA guy in the same way as his friend Bush was.

Edited September 2, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[TheMcGuffin]

And Bush's Zapata Oil Company was involved in the covert war against Cuba:

"In 1953, Bush got money from Brown Brothers Harriman and, with partners Hugh and Bill Liedtke, formed Zapata Petroleum. By the late 1950s they were millionaires. Bush bought subsidiary Zapata Off-Shore from his partners and went into business on his own in 1954. By 1958, the new company was drilling on the Cay Sal Bank in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico. These islands had been leased to Nixon supporter and CIA contractor Howard Hughes the previous year and were later used as a base for CIA raids on Cuba. The CIA was using companies like Zapata to stage and supply secret missions attacking Fidel Castro’s Cuban government in advance of the Bay of Pigs invasion. The CIA’s codename for that invasion was “Operation Zapata.” In 1981, all Securities and Exchange Commission filings for Zapata Off-Shore between 1960 and 1966 were destroyed. In other words, the year Bush became vice president, important records detailing his years at his drilling company disappeared. In 1969, Zapata bought the United Fruit Company of Boston, another company with strong CIA connections."

http://www.famoustexans.com/georgebush.htm

[TheMcGuffin]

More evidence that Zapata Oil had CIA connections was the fact that one of Bush's partners, Thomas J, Devine, was also a career CIA officer. Phil Graham had also worked for the OSS and later the CIA, although this wasn't known until many years after his death:

"Later he joined forces with Thomas J. Devine, a former CIA officer, to create Zapata Oil. Other major investors included Prescott Bush and Bill Liedtke.

In 1954, Zapata Off-Shore Company was formed as a subsidiary of Zapata Oil, with George H. W. Bush as president of the new company. According to Bush's autobiography, Eugene Meyer, the publisher of the Washington Post, and his son-in-law, Philip Graham, were major investors in the new company.

Zapata Corporation split in 1959 into independent companies Zapata Petroleum and Zapata Off-Shore, headed by Bush, who moved his offices from Midland to Houston. In 1960, Bush created a new company, Perforaciones Marinas del Golfo (Permargo) with Edwin Pauley of Pan American Petroleum. Pauley is alleged to have had close ties to Allen Dulles. During the Second World War Pauley aided the Dulles brothers former clients in shifting Nazi assets out of Europe.

In 1963, Zapata Petroleum merged with South Penn Oil and other companies to become Pennzoil. In his book Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty (2009) Russ Baker argues: "For Devine, who would have been about twenty-seven years old at the time, to resign at such a young age, so soon after the CIA had spent a great deal of time and money training him, was, at minimum, highly unusual. It would turn out, however, that Devine had a special relationship allowing him to come and go from the agency, enabling him to do other things without really leaving its employ."

Thomas J. Devine later rejoined the CIA under non-official cover (NOC) status on 12th June 1963, as a covert commercial asset for Project WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. Joan Mellen points out that: "This CIA document reveals that Thomas Devine had informed George Bush of a CIA project with the cryptonym WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. It involved CIA proprietary commercial operations in foreign countries."

Mellen goes onto argue that this links George Bush to George de Mohrenschildt and Lee Harvey Oswald. "WUBRINY involved Haitian operations, in which, the documents reveal, a participant was George de Mohrenschildt, the Dallas CIA handler of – Lee Oswald." Russ Baker interviewed Devine in 2008 and he refused to say whether he was involved with WUBRINY. However, another CIA officer, Gale Allen, confirmed in another interview that Devine did take part in the project.

There is strong evidence that Bush was working for the CIA during this period. Bush also provided information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on a proposed assassination attempt by James Parrott of John F. Kennedy. On 29th November, 1963, Bush informed J. Edgar Hoover about a conspiracy involving a group of pro-Castro Cubans in Miami."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbushG.htm

Edited September 2, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[WoIverine]

McGuffin, since Bush was Reagan's VP and successor, how privy to this information would Reagan have been? Do you believe he was also "in the know" as well?

Edited September 2, 2011 by Spid3rCyd3

[TheMcGuffin]

Oh, "Poppy" was not George H.W. Bush's codename. It was a nickname his friends of the Yale baseball team gave him because he was a World War II veteran and therefore slightly older than many of the other boys.

Among the anti-Castro Cubans in Miami, he may have been known as "Don Eduardo". The head of the CIA station in Miami (JM/Wave), Theodore Shackley, was an old friend of Poppy, and later worked on his presidential campaign.

In foreign policy at the time, Bush advocated escalation in Vietnam and an invasion of Cuba, while JFK appeared to be backing off from both of these.

http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=BushBook&C=8.2

The young man in Houston who Bush named as threatening to shoot JFK was a member of the Young Republicans and John Birch Society who had been discharged from the military in 1959 on psychiatric grounds.

[TheMcGuffin]

McGuffin, since Bush was Reagan's VP and successor, how privy to this information would Reagan have been? Do you believe he was also "in the know" as well?

I know for sure that Bush and his CIA friends kept popping up again and again in later years, such as E. Howard and and the Miami Cubans who broke into the DNC offices in 1972. Later, when Bush was supervising the covert wars in Central America as Reagan's vice president, some of these people turned up again, like Felix Rodriguez, a Bay of Pigs veteran and old friend of Poppy Bush.

Certainly this Cuban connection is a constant with Bush Senior, although he always brushed it off and the media never really pressed him on any of these points. What's new?

http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=BushBook&C=8.2

Reagan believed the assassination of JFK was a conspiracy and said so in a radio address. He denied that the CIA did it and stated that the Soviets and Cubans did it. Of course, that was the exact same version of the assassination that the conspirators intended to publicize, and they had gone to great lengths to make Oswald look like a Soviet agent. He even wanted a new investigation, which was the last thing in the world that any of the conspirators would have desired, not unless they could totally guarantee that it came out with the conclusions they preferred:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_k2qGadFU

Edited September 2, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[The Silver Thong]

McGuffin, since Bush was Reagan's VP and successor, how privy to this information would Reagan have been? Do you believe he was also "in the know" as well?

I would say Bush was very much in the know and Regan was fed tid bits.

Former President George Bush was Director of Central Intelligence and head of the Central Intelligence Agency from 30 January 1976 to 20 January 1977.

[TheMcGuffin]

I would say Bush was very much in the know and Regan was fed tid bits.

Former President George Bush was Director of Central Intelligence and head of the Central Intelligence Agency from 30 January 1976 to 20 January 1977.

Poppy Bush knows plenty about all kinds of things, but good luck finding out anything from him. He'll just talk like a golfer doing an orange juice commercial and end up saying not much of anything. Training. He is a very courteous and polite man--so I've been told--a gentleman in the old-fashioned sense, but also as tough as nails.

[The Silver Thong]

Poppy Bush knows plenty about all kinds of things, but good luck finding out anything from him. He'll just talk like a golfer doing an orange juice commercial and end up saying not much of anything. Training. He is a very courteous and polite man--so I've been told--a gentleman in the old-fashioned sense, but also as tough as nails.

You put it so polite. I would call him a traitor.

[TheMcGuffin]

This video has all the usual questions. How many shots were fired and from which directions? Where was the police and Secret Service protection? Why did the driver slow down as the president and Gov. Connally were being shot instead of speeding up and getting out of there?