Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

On the road to reason


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#16    101

101

    PA's Girl

  • Member
  • 4,992 posts
  • Joined:21 Mar 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida

  • One half of the perenially, perpetually, purpotratedly, proudly, perfectly, placidly, pleasantly, purposely, presently promised couple to be on UM.

Posted 05 May 2005 - 08:47 PM

[quote=Quicksand,Apr 29 2005, 09:24 PM]
[color=blue]
The other immediate response I had was fear too, I remember my early vivid, sweaty nightmares of Hell that my Church elders and my parents told me about.  I cried and cried. I imagined what it would be like to burn and burn forever. As a child, I knew that my mind would always get the best of me, it did time and time again, and that Hell was my only fate. But it bothered me, why did Jesus die for me again? I could never resolve this at this time in my life.


[right]View Post[/right]
[/quote]

Do you not speak of Fear here Quicksand? Fear of what burning in Hell would be like?

[right]View Post[/right]
[/quote]
I'm sorry, but I am not afraid. Where do you read that? Where did I state my fear 101?

I can tell you didn't bother to even read my testimony above.

The God you speak is of a personnel God that you've only picked and choosed what you admire about "it" as a reflection of yourself. I can tell you've never read the damn Bible and make the fallacy of selective reading.

Anyway, other that, I don't understand the rest of your rant there.

____

[right]View Post[/right]
[/quote]

I did read your testimony I found it interesting to tell of your life story like that.
Can a person not have a "personal" relationship with God? So are you saying what I admire about God is what I admire of myself that I have a light that shines so brightly that you need sunglasses. ha ha ha. I do read the Bible and continue to learn in grow in his word. Just because I am not as well educated in my verses as others on here. Does it mean I don't read it. I read it. I shouldn't even have to explain myself to you. And what I was trying to tell you or my ranting as you say. Is that I think you still LOVE God. And you still know of him. I mean you were raised in church and the teachings you heard are still within you. 101

Posted Image


Just remember, you can do anything (that is physically possible) that you set your mind to.  All you have to do is believe in yourself.- Mako

#17    JennRose

JennRose

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,284 posts
  • Joined:05 Oct 2004
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

  • All power rests on hierarchy: An army is nothing but a well-organized lynch mob.
    --Edward Abbey

Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:07 PM

Thanks for that, Quicksand.  I completely understand where you are coming from (raised in a super-Conservative Christian home), and have ended up in almost exactly the same place.  I, too, study religions, but for their historical merits and how they have shaped cultures, not because there is some profound hidden truths.

I hate that most of the people here read your post and rather than trying to understand why you felt and thought the way you did, they just wanted to disprove the tiny discrepencies of your doctrine and compare it to their own.  The fact of it is, it doesn't matter whether the Catholics believe the bread of Communion becomes flesh and the Baptists believe it stays bread, that's not the point.  It's about what you can come to terms with accepting in your own mind as a universal truth.  And I'm sorry, but for some people, that does not include the teachings of the Bible.  This is not because of a lack of trying, or understanding, or moral substance: it just is.  I reject it and I know fully the arguements from people on the other side.  It doesn't mean I don't have joy or peace or love in my life.  I am actually MUCH more content with my life now that I feel I am being true to myself and not forcing myself to believe something I just can't rectify with common sense.

Edited by JennRose, 06 May 2005 - 02:08 PM.

Posted Image

#18    antiaging

antiaging

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 449 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2005
  • Location:New Orleans, LA,

Posted 20 May 2005 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE(Quicksand @ Apr 29 2005, 03:24 PM)
Note: I orignally posted this on exchristian. Since I've been hanging out on this site and probably will for sometime you might as well know something about me. I am not going to comment very much, unless you have pointed questions. /Taylor


At one time, I was very capable of believing in the whole Jesus story and even God (and later butt-plugging aliens from outer-space); children tend trust their parents and elders after all. So this is my story, why I am now incapable of believing this religion or the supernatural because of applied reason and research, and innate skepticism.

Prior to the 3rd grade and moving out to the suburbs of Milwaukee, I attended religious private schools. A Catholic and and a Lutheran one. I had very early Bible instruction and was fairly well integrated into the life and community of the Church. I had emotional and learning problems as kid, so this necessitated my parents sending me to private schools. You see, I was expelled from Milwaukee public schools for a number of years and that Catholic school, well they expelled me too. Ha ha! So nice to sit back and laugh at it now. I was way too much to handle! Anyway, I still look back at my years at the Lutheran school quite fondly, despite the beatings I received when I smarted off. I was a great student and of all my studies and required things I should memorize (which I forget what now), the Bible I excelled in because I enjoyed it the most.

But I get ahead of myself here. Born in the early 70's, I was baptized Serbian Orthodox – on the behest of my Mother's grandmother and confirmed Lutheran in the early 80's. The first time I ever learned about death, was Jesus. I was touched deeply by that. How could a person that would never know me, die for me? The response was immediate – of course I loved this person back and without condition. The other immediate response I had was fear too, I remember my early vivid, sweaty nightmares of Hell that my Church elders and my parents told me about.  I cried and cried. I imagined what it would be like to burn and burn forever. As a child, I knew that my mind would always get the best of me, it did time and time again, and that Hell was my only fate. But it bothered me, why did Jesus die for me again? I could never resolve this at this time in my life.

Regardless, I was so indoctrinated into the faith. Motivated by my natural instincts to love, and to fear, I was a Christian. Never questioned it. Never thought different. 

Once we left the city, I started attending the public schools in our new community. I lived near a town of 300 people and the nearest large town was around 10 thousand strong. Milwaukee was still close, about a 40 minute drive away. But in terms of my location, it was light-years away. I really had no friends (except my brother, who to this very day is my best friend – I love you J!) so I spent lots and lots of time reading alone and getting on by myself just fine. Also, being a spaz still made people avoid me – don't blame them a bit. We found a Lutheran Church, signed up for Sunday School, and I even became a Lutheran Pioneer. (Well, until they kicked me out of that. Sense a theme here? LOL)

It was at this time, I began to look at life a bit different, between the years of 3rd and 6/7th grade, when I was confirmed. I was no longer in that constant environment and was learning all new sorts of things in school, expanding my knowledge base. And Church really got in the way of G-Force, a sunday cartoon, that I loved. But really, with the new things I was learning, I was developing my budding skepticism.

I was basically chided and forced by my folks to get confirmed. Our Pastor from the Lutheran Church in which we (irregularly) attended at this time, came over and impressed upon us that our spiritual health was at stake (although in my young and inarticulate mind, no one could tell me exactly what a "spirit" was to my satisfaction) and that I may want to get married someday (although I knew that I never wanted to) and it would be important for some reason when that happened.

So, my parents (for review), my brother, and myself packed up for evening confirmation classes. I have commented before that my Pastor was a YEC, and I found his explanation and support of such a young Earth utterly ridiculous and false. Children know how to lie. We do stupid things and have to cover up for it. Natural and part of the learning process. I could sense his justifications as false from the discord in his voice. I also remember my Pastor and my Sunday school teachers teaching us that even if a person does good, yet without the Christian GOD, they have not done any good at all and would not receive the reward of Heaven. I rejected that teaching right off the bat. Why would a God care, if – after all, he knows how many hairs are on my and my parents head, who was doing good and for whatever reason?  Good is good no? This seemed like such a petty distinction to make for something as so benevolent, that I was assured over and over again, that this God was. I mean, Jesus was his son after all, that died for all of humanity sins, making all us equal. Non-christians doing good, yet burning in hell?   I wrestled with the unfairness of it all, and rejected that teaching.

It was during these confirmation classes, and the study and reflection I did, that I renounced and apostate from the religion. I knew it what was false. My brother had a similar experience as well, and rejected the religion upon the YEC teachings of our Pastor. He's three years younger than me too. This is also why we are both so fascinated by Atlantis and other Lost Kingdom stories.

About God, I was up in the air about. But, I have always thought, that if such a being exists, He would know what to do to convince me that [iIT[/i] exists. And if it were the Christian God, God has but no choice to intervene directly. My soul is at stake is it not? 

Back to Confirmation. The day finally came. I said the words, and I drank the wine and ate the bread along with my brother as our folks smiled on. My Pastor assured us that it would become the actual blood and flesh of Christ. (Back of my mind I was like Gross!) But it did not. It was the same assurance that I got if I asked God or Jesus to answer me if I had problem, he would do so. No voice came. And I knew what my own voice sounded like ringing in my head. Nothing came. So I tested what my elders said, and nothing came of it. I knew my decision was sound.

Confirmation was the last time I was in Church as a Christian.

Since then, I have developed my knowledge base, read the Bible, researched other religions and the evidence behind lost kingdoms as well, peered back through history and the formation of the religion itself, paganism, art history, hermeneutics, language, philosphy, world history and so much more. I spent several years reading and learning – on my own, and not necessarily at college, trying to answer questions, probing for reality. I worked hard, partly as an obligation to myself, but if God did exist, I owed it to Him to come of full reason and dedicated myself wholeheartedly.

God does not exist. The supernatural does not exist.
If it does, it is beyond any human possible way to access it.

Now, I want to do good is all. If your God burns me for the good I do because I reject his contradictory religion, then this God is really a beast.

I will take that punishment.

I will not sacrifice my integrity.

View Post



You named yourself appropriately: Quicksand

He who hears the teachings of Jesus and does them not, I will show you to whom he is like. He is like a man that built his house on the sand. And the wind and the waves beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.



#19    Quicksand

Quicksand

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Joined:22 Mar 2005
  • Location:Milwaukee

  • Worldview:
    Strong Atheist, Materialist, & A Skeptical Non-Believer of Uppity Annoyance!

Posted 20 May 2005 - 02:03 PM

Antiaging,

Removed offensive content...flaming and name calling are against the rules Quicksand anymore will result in an official warning

Btw, I took the name Quicksand after a favorite band of mine oh profane one.

Edited by Kismit, 22 May 2005 - 09:07 AM.

To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin.

Cardinal Bellarmine -  Attributed (During the trial of Galileo)

#20    antiaging

antiaging

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 449 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2005
  • Location:New Orleans, LA,

Posted 21 May 2005 - 12:17 AM

QUOTE(Quicksand @ May 20 2005, 08:03 AM)
Antiaging,

Removed offensive content
Btw, I took the name Quicksand after a favorite band of mine oh profane one.

View Post



You called me what?
I have a track record of asking God to take vengeance against people that deal unjustly with me, and watching something bad happen to them.
You mess with the wrong person.
2 Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
It won't be by my hand. Remember me in the future when your life starts to fall apart.

Matt.7:
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
fall Heb 10:31, 2nd Pet 2:20

Edited by Kismit, 22 May 2005 - 09:05 AM.


#21    hyperactive

hyperactive

    abu gaia

  • Member
  • 5,691 posts
  • Joined:21 Mar 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 May 2005 - 12:37 AM

@Antiaging,

how nice.

Edited by hyperactive, 21 May 2005 - 12:38 AM.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#22    GIDEON MAGE

GIDEON MAGE

    MASTER PSYCHIC

  • Member
  • 3,813 posts
  • Joined:01 Feb 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DANIA BEACH, FLORIDA

  • I ONLY BELIEVE WHAT I PERCEIVE WITH MY OWN PSYCHIC POWERS, OR MAKES LOGICAL SENSE. SHOW ME SOMETHING THAT WORKS AND I'LL AGREE.

Posted 21 May 2005 - 02:31 AM

oh, antiaging-
let us read jeremiah (17.5) together:
Thus sqaid the lord:
cursed is he who trusts in man,
who makes mere flesh his strength,
and turns his thoughts from the lord.
so all xians are cursed, because they have turned AWAY from the lord.
since, like most xians, you might not have read the bible other than the n.t, maybe daniel and isaiah, maybe even proverbs and psalms,
you probably have never read this prophesy by jeremiah, which clearly curses all xians.how dare you pull this on quicksand?


   GIDEON MAGE


Is a shameless act of self-promotion vain, or merely a good, practiical idea? Click here to find out!
http://www.examiner....ew-Age-Examiner

#23    antiaging

antiaging

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 449 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2005
  • Location:New Orleans, LA,

Posted 22 May 2005 - 06:15 AM

QUOTE(GIDEON MAGE @ May 20 2005, 08:31 PM)
oh, antiaging-
let us read jeremiah (17.5) together:
Thus sqaid the lord:
cursed is he who trusts in man,
who makes mere flesh his strength,
and turns his thoughts from the lord.
so all xians are cursed, because they have turned AWAY from the lord.
since, like most xians, you might not have read the bible other than the n.t, maybe daniel and isaiah, maybe even proverbs and psalms,
you probably have never read this prophesy by jeremiah, which clearly curses all xians.how dare you pull this on quicksand?

View Post



For  over 26 years I have been listening to the whole bible being read by Alexander Scourby on a tape player. The real bible, the King James version.
I covered the whole old testament well over 95 times; that's an estimate. I know the Old Testament better than the average Jewish rabbi; a lot better.

Christians have not turned away from the Lord. Jesus Christ is the Jewish Messiah, and the Jewish Messiah is the Lord.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.

Messiah is God, and Jesus is the Messiah.

If you don't believe in the Messiah and the new covenant prophecied in Jeremiah 31:31, then it is you that is not following God.
[Othodox Jews don't sacrifice animals anymore and have no atonement for sin.]
Christians have the atoneing death of Messiah on the cross as an atonement for sin.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Jesus (Yeshua) the messiah (ha moshiach) said this:

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.





#24    Kismit

Kismit

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,680 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2001
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New zealand

Posted 22 May 2005 - 09:15 AM



Antiaging,
threats against any member of U.M. will not be tolerated. Please read the lovely p.m I am sending you very carefully.


#25    Xenojjin

Xenojjin

    Absurdity

  • Member
  • 2,753 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • Life is not meaningful, therefore it is.

Posted 22 May 2005 - 03:14 PM

QUOTE
whether you accept this or not, every person deserves hell.


hellis eternal punishment for sins .For a person to deserve it in its eternity they would have to be 100% evil , which no one is . In fact even psychotic murderers have a good person somewhere inside them .

QUOTE
If you don't believe in the Messiah and the new covenant prophecied in Jeremiah 31:31, then it is you that is not following God. [Othodox Jews don't sacrifice animals anymore and have no atonement for sin.]
Christians have the atoneing death of Messiah on the cross as an atonement for sin.


When will the pious arrogance stop ? Cant this board be a little more ... spiritual ?
Think about what your saying for a second antiaging , what you just said basically translates to "Im right and your wrong because Im right and your wrong and Im saved and your not."

Do you honestly think this approach is going to convince anyone otherwise ? No ... it never will , and I can guarantee based on quicksands OP that he has heard what you have to say many many times from the mouths of others . Why not try stating why you believe what you believe rather then taking the arrogant position of being "holier then thou" ?

Edited by Xenojjin, 22 May 2005 - 03:22 PM.

In the way, the supernatural is what's behind the curtain. Normally, you only need to see what's happening in stage. That's how reality works. If you don't know then it's for the best. Actually, learning about the supernatural only increases the number of things you don't know.

Posted Image


#26    GreenmansGod

GreenmansGod

    Bio-Electric sentient being.

  • Member
  • 10,539 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Hurricane State

  • May the laughter ye give today return to thee 3 fold.

Posted 22 May 2005 - 03:35 PM

QUOTE
Since then, I have developed my knowledge base, read the Bible, researched other religions and the evidence behind lost kingdoms as well, peered back through history and the formation of the religion itself, paganism, art history, hermeneutics, language, philosphy, world history and so much more. I spent several years reading and learning on my own, and not necessarily at college, trying to answer questions, probing for reality. I worked hard, partly as an obligation to myself, but if God did exist, I owed it to Him to come of full reason and dedicated myself wholeheartedly.

God does not exist. The supernatural does not exist.
If it does, it is beyond any human possible way to access it.

Now, I want to do good is all. If your God burns me for the good I do because I reject his contradictory religion, then this God is really a beast.

I will take that punishment.

I will not sacrifice my integrity.


Everyone walks their own path.  My own Path started with things happening in my life I couldn't explain.  I looked at science and found that the Universe is not as we see it.  I found that Paganism fit with what I had experenced and with my science studies and put them together.  I am happy with who I am.  Walk your Path Quicksand you will find what you are looking for.  When you post" there is no God" among the Christians expect to get them in "Save him mode."  rolleyes.gif They can't help it.  It is part of their Path.
Peace

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#27    Quicksand

Quicksand

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Joined:22 Mar 2005
  • Location:Milwaukee

  • Worldview:
    Strong Atheist, Materialist, & A Skeptical Non-Believer of Uppity Annoyance!

Posted 22 May 2005 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE(Quicksand @ May 20 2005, 09:03 AM)
Antiaging,

Removed offensive content...flaming and name calling are against the rules Quicksand anymore will result in an official warning

Btw, I took the name Quicksand after a favorite band of mine oh profane one.

View Post


Removed second barrage of insults
Oh dear Quicksand, dear, dear , dear..... I really dislike having to police grown ups.
Please read the p.m. I am sending you very carefully before posting again.


Edited by Kismit, 22 May 2005 - 11:55 PM.

To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin.

Cardinal Bellarmine -  Attributed (During the trial of Galileo)

#28    Amalgamut

Amalgamut

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,535 posts
  • Joined:10 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:33 AM

This thread is filled with Christ love.

Why tiptoe quietly through life just to arrive safely at death?




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users