Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 4 votes

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


  • Please log in to reply
5469 replies to this topic

#3226    NO-ID-EA

NO-ID-EA

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 343 posts
  • Joined:14 Oct 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:wherever im at

Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

What for block printing , pre-Guttenburg.........Is it not more likely they are parts damaged beyond reading ?.......Surely we have to surmise that although he says he saved it in the flood that some damage was caused ,he could not have saved it undamaged from the flood , otherwise why did he need to copy it at all



Is there a difference though in being faithful to the meaning , but using updated words with the same meaning , ......and just as double U = W ....could we presume M = double n ?.........That double U being W , is why you might recall i thought the W was the U with the line in the middle of it shown in the full stand and run script .

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 28 March 2013 - 10:00 PM.


#3227    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 March 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Very good observation, No !

Damn, now I am seriously thinking of visiting an optician.

Those wiggly lines are (according to Knul) some sort of notification for a printer: leave this blanc.

They show up everywhere in the MS.

+++

EDIT:

Knul, I think you should edit this too:

30 HJU -TRAGD HELP TO LЄ [p. 134] NANDE ÆND WR
31 - ALDA SKIL JO KREFTA JЄVA - ÐЄR HIPÐ
32 HJU NЄI T KRYL-WOD - GRIPT ELSNE TRЄJON

Like NO-ID-EA said, it should be TRЄON.

Page 96 of the MS (scroll down to bottom of the page) :

http://images.tresoa...php?p=98&pm=212


.

Thanks. I changed it to:  ÐЄR HIPÐ HJU NЄI T KRYLWOD GRIPÐ ELSNE [ELZEN] TRЄON [TAKKEN].

I followed Ottema: Thêr hipth hja nêi t Krylwod , gript elsne trêjon ,

Edited by Knul, 28 March 2013 - 11:32 PM.


#3228    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:25 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 28 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Note also on page 96 of Tresor the word is written treon , and not trejon .( last word on page )


Are the wiggly lines in some parts of page 96 , and in other places ,supposed to indicate that the original document was damaged , and he could not read it to copy it ??
if so which one was damaged the one saved from the flood presumably ,but could it have been the copy was damaged later  ??

Thanks, I changed it. I followed Ottema: Thêr hipth hja nêi t Krylwod , gript elsne trêjon , Besides Ottema did not notice the alliteration between hipth and gripth.  She did not run to the Krylwod, but jumped (in Dutch: hopte).  This gives an idea of the literary quality of the OLB, almost poetry.

In the preceding lines  HWERFON HJRA TOGHATERA MEN .. MEN is a mistake, should be MAR (Dutch maar, slechts).  MEN means but (Dutch: maar), but that is a conjunction. Again Ottema did not notice, else he would have improved the text. For me it shows, that the original text was written in Dutch. By the way at the end of the MS the conjunction MEN (but, maar) is replaced by MAR.  I don't want to make the case more complicated than it is, but the OLB word MAR shows also up as (ANY) MORE (Dutch: meer).  What do you think of that ?

Edited by Knul, 29 March 2013 - 12:23 AM.


#3229    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:40 AM

MS 096:

16 MEN AL WЄRE HJU LEDLIK ÐACH SKOLDE
17 HJU VS DJŮRA WЄSA -
18 [BLANCO REGEL]
19 JEF HJU WYGANDLIK SY -

It looks like the 'translator' could not read the line and left it open. There is no grammatical connection between line 17 and 19. Line 19 should be preceded by a text, which leads to the subjunctive SY. In fact I cannot find any reason to insert a white line.

Edited by Knul, 29 March 2013 - 12:43 AM.


#3230    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostApol, on 28 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

In fact, it might have been branches she fetched, and threw into a heap, so that the children could walk on them.

Right. She was in a hurry to rescue the kids. So she had no time to grasp a whole tree.


#3231    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 28 March 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

What for block printing , pre-Guttenburg.........Is it not more likely they are parts damaged beyond reading ?.......Surely we have to surmise that although he says he saved it in the flood that some damage was caused ,he could not have saved it undamaged from the flood , otherwise why did he need to copy it at all



Is there a difference though in being faithful to the meaning , but using updated words with the same meaning , ......and just as double U = W ....could we presume M = double n ?.........That double U being W , is why you might recall i thought the W was the U with the line in the middle of it shown in the full stand and run script .

He had to copy, because the paper was deterioriating and the ink was vanishing.


#3232    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,070 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:30 AM

Talking about copies....

I always said it is strange that only one copy of the OLB survived.

But according to the OLB several copies were made of the "Book of Adela's followers' , mid 6th century BCE:

Thit send tha nêilêtne skrifta Brunnos, ther skrywer wêsen is to thisre burch. After that tha Adela follistar ella hêde lêta overskryva elk in sin rik, hwat wryt was in vppa wâgarum thêra burgum, bisloton hja en Moder to kjasane.

These are the writings left by Brunno, who was the writer of this burgt. After the followers of Adela had made copies, each in his state/realm, of what was inscribed upon the walls of the burgt, they resolved to choose a mother.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bh

Does "sin" or "his" point to the grevetmen and the areas and cities that were under their command, like we have discussed before? In that case we know where to 'find' these copies.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 March 2013 - 07:43 AM.


#3233    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,070 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:37 AM

About the word "tohnekka":


Hwat hja forth dêdon, hja buwgdon to fâra Adela aend keston thju slyp hyrar tohnekka.
Upon that they bowed themselves before Adela, and kissed the hem of her garment.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bh


Thêre burchfams lov.
THE ELEGY OF THE BURGTMAAGD

Hira hemeth is linnen, hira tohnekka wol, thaet hjv selva spon aend wêvade.[OLB]
Haar hemd is linnen, haar tunica wol, dat zij zelve spon en weefde.[Dutch]
Her shirt/skirt is of linnen, her tunic (?) is of wool, that she herself spun and wove.[English/me]
Her garments of linen and wool she spun and wove herself.[Sandbach]

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bj




P.A.F. van Veen en N. van der Sijs (1997), Van Dale Etymologisch woordenboek

tunica [membraan, gewaad] {1624 in de betekenis ‘membraan’; de betekenis ‘gewaad’ 1734} < latijn tunica [wollen onderkleed], evenals grieks chitōn (ionisch kithōn) uit het semitisch, vgl. aramees kittūnā [linnen], hebreeuws kuttōneth [hemdachtige lijfrok] → chiton, tourniquet.

tunica [membrane, robe] {1624 in the meaning 'membrane'; meaning 'robe' 1734} < Latin tunica [woolen garment], as well as Greek chiton (ionic kithōn) from Semitic, cf Aramaic kittūnā [linen], Hebrew kuttōneth [shirt-like tunic] → chiton, tourniquet.


http://www.etymologi...refwoord/tunica


Ontleening van lat. tunica.
4.  Dameskleedingstuk dat de(n) eronder gedragen rok of japon gedeeltelijk vrijlaat. Gebezigd m. betr. t. zekere vrouwendracht in het verleden.

Borrowing from Latin tunica.
4. Ladies garment that leaves the skirt or dress underneath partially free. Used in relation to a particular women's wear in the past.


http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=M071235


tunic (n.)
c.1600, from Middle French tunique, from Latin tunica (cf. Spanish tunica, Italian tonica, Old English tunece, Old High German tunihha), probably from a Semitic source (cf. Hebrew kuttoneth "coat," Aramaic kittuna).

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none


(Up to now I haven't found anything in an Old Frisian dictionary)

.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 March 2013 - 07:42 AM.


#3234    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,358 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:05 AM

W:

In other Germanic languages, including German, its name is similar or identical to that of English V.[4] In many languages, its name literally means "double v": Spanish doble ve (though it can be spelled uve doble),[5][note 1] French double vé, Icelandic tvöfalt vaff, Czech dvojité vé, Finnish kaksois-vee, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W

Literally double V - so a W written as VV would not be that odd. That it's in Finnish is especially interesting.

Edited by The Puzzler, 29 March 2013 - 09:06 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3235    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,358 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:12 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 March 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Talking about copies....

I always said it is strange that only one copy of the OLB survived.

But according to the OLB several copies were made of the "Book of Adela's followers' , mid 6th century BCE:

Thit send tha nêilêtne skrifta Brunnos, ther skrywer wêsen is to thisre burch. After that tha Adela follistar ella hêde lêta overskryva elk in sin rik, hwat wryt was in vppa wâgarum thêra burgum, bisloton hja en Moder to kjasane.

These are the writings left by Brunno, who was the writer of this burgt. After the followers of Adela had made copies, each in his state/realm, of what was inscribed upon the walls of the burgt, they resolved to choose a mother.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bh

Does "sin" or "his" point to the grevetmen and the areas and cities that were under their command, like we have discussed before? In that case we know where to 'find' these copies.

.

Yes, I think that's right. But the copies might not be there for many reasons. Taken by family members or lost to every other thing the original Frisians finally succumbed to.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3236    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,358 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:17 AM

Tohnekka - funny name - sounds like toe to neck - like bathers had to be once, neck to toe and everbodys clothing was - from your neck to your toe.

In the Frisian dictionary, maybe it's cover: thekkene  - hem of her garment/hem of her covering.

thek-k-en-e




, tek-k-en-e, afries., F.: nhd. Decke; ne. cover (N.); Q.: W, S; E.: s.


thek-k-a; W.: s. nfries. teck; W.: s. saterl. tace, tac; L.: Hh 110a, Hh 176, Rh 1068a

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3237    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,070 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:42 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 March 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Tohnekka - funny name - sounds like toe to neck - like bathers had to be once, neck to toe and everbodys clothing was - from your neck to your toe.

In the Frisian dictionary, maybe it's cover: thekkene  - hem of her garment/hem of her covering.

thek-k-en-e




, tek-k-en-e, afries., F.: nhd. Decke; ne. cover (N.); Q.: W, S; E.: s.


thek-k-a; W.: s. nfries. teck; W.: s. saterl. tace, tac; L.: Hh 110a, Hh 176, Rh 1068a

Thek-k-en-e seems to be a logical choice, but then we have to change -N- for -K- .

But both the 'tohnekka' and the 'tunica' were made of wool, so I don't think people would have bathed wearing these things.


#3238    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,070 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:50 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 March 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Yes, I think that's right. But the copies might not be there for many reasons. Taken by family members or lost to every other thing the original Frisians finally succumbed to.

So every other forgot to make copies but only Cornelis Over de Linden's direct ancestors did ?

From the paragraph I posted I get the idea that it may not have been uncommon to make copies, so if it is all true, then there should be at least another surviving copy, somewhere.

Don't forget, this happened around mid 6th century BCE, so long before the Christian era there may have been many copies.

Or did the need to make copies only arise because of those Christians, but maybe all other Fryans started too late?


#3239    Apol

Apol

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 157 posts
  • Joined:02 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hønefoss, Norway

Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:10 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 March 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

W:

In other Germanic languages, including German, its name is similar or identical to that of English V.[4] In many languages, its name literally means "double v": Spanish doble ve (though it can be spelled uve doble),[5][note 1] French double vé, Icelandic tvöfalt vaff, Czech dvojité vé, Finnish kaksois-vee, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W

Literally double V - so a W written as VV would not be that odd. That it's in Finnish is especially interesting.

In the OLB a W is what it says it is - a double V. You can see it in for instance Hidde Oera Linda's letter, where the same word is written with two V's and one W respectively:

I have vvrskrêven them on foreign paper. If you inherit them, you must also wrskríva them – likewise your children, so that they never become lost.

You see it all the time: Vvl, Wl (vile),  Vvnnen, Wnnen (won), Vvr, Wr (over), Vvrda, Wrda (places) - and Vvral, Wral (over all, everywhere)

Edited by Apol, 29 March 2013 - 10:22 AM.


#3240    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,358 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 March 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

So every other forgot to make copies but only Cornelis Over de Linden's direct ancestors did ?

From the paragraph I posted I get the idea that it may not have been uncommon to make copies, so if it is all true, then there should be at least another surviving copy, somewhere.

Don't forget, this happened around mid 6th century BCE, so long before the Christian era there may have been many copies.

Or did the need to make copies only arise because of those Christians, but maybe all other Fryans started too late?

I'd ask - how many bothered to make copies of a long, unusual, hard to understand, inappropriate and dangerous to have, manuscript that could jeopardize their lives?
Or who had the inclination or yearning to keep it intact as the Oera Linda family had?

In an mmm bop it's gone...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users