471 replies to this topic

[TheMacGuffin]

A group of scientists at Los Alamos had a long discussion with Edward Ruppelt about the UFOs, including the "green fireballs" that seemed so bright that they could have been covered in florescent paint.

"The green fireballs, they theorized, could be some type of unmanned test vehicle that was being projected into our atmosphere from a "spaceship" hovering several hundred miles above the earth. Two years ago I would have been amazed to hear a group of reputable scientists make such a startling statement. Now, however, I took it as a matter of course. I'd heard the same type of statement many times before from equally qualified groups.


Turn the tables, they said, suppose that we are going to try to go to a far planet. There would be three phases to the trip: out through the earth's atmosphere, through space, and the re-entry into the atmosphere of the planet we're planning to land on. The first two phases would admittedly present formidable problems, but the last phase, the re-entry phase, would be the most critical. Coming in from outer space, the craft would, for all practical purposes, be similar to a meteorite except that it would be powered and not free-falling. You would have myriad problems associated with aerodynamic heating, high aerodynamic loadings, and very probably a host of other problems that no one can now conceive of. Certain of these problems could be partially solved by laboratory experimentation, but nothing can replace flight testing, and the results obtained by flight tests in our atmosphere would not be valid in another type of atmosphere.

The most logical way to overcome this difficulty would be to build our interplanetary vehicle, go to the planet that we were interested in landing on, and hover several hundred miles up. From this altitude we could send instrumented test vehicles down to the planet. If we didn't want the inhabitants of the planet, if it were inhabited, to know what we were doing we could put destruction devices in the test vehicle, or arrange the test so that the test vehicles would just plain burn up at a certain point due to aerodynamic heating.

They continued, each man injecting his ideas.

Maybe the green fireballs are test vehicles—somebody else's. The regular UFO reports might be explained by the fact that the manned vehicles were venturing down to within 100,000 or 200,000 feet of the earth, or to the altitude at which atmosphere re-entry begins to get critical."


http://www.google.co...9MPjbbPenpdQ2Jw

[TheMacGuffin]

Ruppelt also said:

"Maybe I was just playing the front man to a big cover-up. I didn't like it because if somebody up above me knew that UFO's were really spacecraft, I could make a big fool out of myself if the truth came out. I checked into this thoroughly. I spent a lot of time talking to people who had worked on Project Grudge."

He thought the real UFO investigation had just gone deeper underground by 1949-50, and that's what I think as well.  Only on the surface do you get these people talking all the time about balloons, meteors and so on.

[TheMacGuffin]

Then there were a number of prominent physicists at White Sands and Los Alamos who set up their own groups to study the UFOs and "fireballs".

http://books.google....ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA


They saw many of them, far more than ever made it into the "official" reports, at least as far as I know.  At Mt. Palomar Observatory, one group of UFOs in a "V" formation registered on the cosmic ray detectors.  This all came under Navy auspices, which was running its own UFO investigation, as was the Army.

They might (or might) not inform each other and various outside agencies about what they found.

[TheMacGuffin]

And as Commander Robert McLaughlin told Dr. James Van Allen, these UFOs could accelerate, decelerate, change direction, while astronomer Clyde Tombaugh was telling people that perhaps they came from Mars.  He had seen "anomalies" on the surface of that planet as of course had many others over the years, that he linked somehow to UFO reports.

The Pentagon was not happy with McLaughlin talking so freely about these things, because the REAL UFO investigation was classified Top Secret or above, and only Washington could give permission for any information to be revealed to the press and public.

McLaughlin was literally sent to sea after talking too much, transferred from White Sands to a destroyer.


http://books.google....ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA

[psyche101]

quillius, on 10 December 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

I guess that would depend where the life forms came from

ok, I see where you are going now with regards to the spiritual aspect. I would say that one would have to determine whether intelligence is 'indicated' 'mimiced' or 'real'....

The "Life forms" to use the term, have always been seen here though, what is the connection to space?

I agree with intelligence, it certainly can be mimicked, which leads to all sorts of connotations.

Yes, with religion, the burning bush and so forth, they could be these UAP if the original story is accurate.

Edited by psyche101, 11 December 2012 - 04:56 AM.

[psyche101]

TheMacGuffin, on 10 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

I'm very impressed with her book, but as I have said, I heard about these cases long ago, before they became public.

Leslie Kean is going to get attacked regardless of what she does because she found many important witnesses who came forward with information about UFOs.  Anyone who does that is going to get attacked very ruthlessly.  There are no exceptions.

I recall seeing the DIA documents about the Tehran (1976) and Peru (1980) cases long before they were being discussed in public.  Some people on here deliberately distorted what I said about that as well.  It's unbelievable the lengths they will go to with military UFO witnsses--very ruthless and dishonest with them.

A lot of people like it, in fact Boon suggested it to me, so I downloaded it, but I was not as impressed. And one of the reasons is that which you have stated, she tends to regurgitate a lot, and try to put a scincey spin on it, but IMHO, fails.

[psyche101]

TheMacGuffin, on 10 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

If having a Facebook page makes her paranoid and unreliable, then she certainly has plenty of company.

Sorry I worded that badly, I was not intending the comments to Ms Kean, but Quillius, the paranoid bit is a bit of an "in" joke.

[psyche101]

TheMacGuffin, on 10 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

I have never heard of radioactive "plasmas" or "meteorites", but these were.

The Neagari Meteorite in Japan displayed low levels of radioactivity, but admittedly, it is the only one I know of.

It fell on the boot of a car, and by a rather large coincidence, the car was a "Subaru", "Subaru" is the Japanese word for "Pleiades".

One thing that has me wondering is Pallasite meteorites............ they contain gems such as Olivine Crystal and Peridot.

[mcrom901]

TheMacGuffin, on 11 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

At Mt. Palomar Observatory, they registered on the cosmic ray detectors over ten days--multiple times--so whatever radiation they were emitting must have been similar to that.  I think that's an important clue about what the UFOs really were

Mt. Palomar, Oct 1949 ; Detection of UFOs by Geiger Counter Equipment

TheMacGuffin, on 11 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

and perhaps what was powering them.  

"The sound is coming from a Geiger counter, Which detect radioactive radiation."

http://www.hessdalen...n/stream3.shtml

[TheMacGuffin]

This is what really happened with the Mt. Palomar UFOs on many occasions in 1949-50,  The Blue Book explanation of faulty equipment was completely false, but that's not unusual.  They made those up as they went along.  In reality there was a secret military and Atomic Energy Commission study of UFOs going on at this time and Blue Book had nothing to do with it.

4 October 1949 13:20
Mt. Palomar, California , USA

Perfect "V of V's" formation of 16-18 silver objects was seen near Palomar Observatory. Later a single dark object was sighted, accompanied by 21 off-scale readings of a cosmic-ray detecting Geiger counter. Incidents continued over the next ten days.



Observatory Manager of Public Relations Harley C. Marshall was driving away from the Observatory when he saw a perfect "V of V's" formation of about 16-18 silver round objects without tails or wings traveling overhead at high speed to the northwest. They were emitting a sound like jets "but not quite the same". The apparent location of the sound noticeably lagged behind the visual location of objects in the sky by about 35°-40°. He stopped his car and observed the objects disappear behind cloud cover that extended from the horizon to about 45° elevation.


Marshall phoned Assistant Superintendent-Electrical B. B. Traxler who was on duty. At about 1:20 pm Traxler also saw one dark unidentified object traveling to the southwest while checking the cosmic-ray Geiger counter recording equipment. He saw the needle jump off the scale for several seconds.

For the next ten days, another 21 incidents of off-scale cosmic-ray detector incidents occurred at scattered times, fitting a periodic 1.5-hour time schedule. This phenomenon was not seen before or after.

Unexplainable equipment failure or radio interference from aircraft was also observed. Several Navy aircraft of differing prop and jet types were flown near Palomar Observatory using radio, altimeter and radars on October 21 and November 2 in an unsuccessful effort to trigger the Geiger counter. Ruppelt's account of this story makes it clear that this instrumentation was part of a secret AEC monitoring program. (Traxler, B B; Marshall, Harley C).


http://www.google.co...eeok3yJhEziOtLA

[TheMacGuffin]

Edward Ruppelt later flew out to California to interview some of the scientists involved in the UFO investigation.



I hated to fly clear to the west coast on what might be a wild-goose chase, but I did. I couldn't afford to run the risk of losing an opportunity to turn that old recurrent rumor into fact.

Twenty hours later I met the two people at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel. We talked for several hours that night, and I got the details on the rumor and a lot more that I hadn't bargained for. Both of my informants were physicists working for the Atomic Energy Commission, and were recognized in their fields. They wanted no publicity and I promised them that they would get none. One of the men knew all the details behind the rumor, and did most of the talking. To keep my promise of no publicity, I'll call him the "scientist."


The rumor version of the UFO-radiation story that had been kicking around in Air Force and scientific circles for so long had been correct in detail but it was by no means complete. The scientist said that after the initial sighting had taken place word was spread at the research lab that the next time the instruments registered abnormal amounts of radiation, some of the personnel were to go outside immediately and look for some object in the sky.


About three weeks after the first incident a repetition did occur. While excessive radiation was registering on the instruments in the lab, a lone dark object was seen streaking across the sky. Again the instruments were checked but, as before, no malfunction was found.


After this second sighting, according to the scientist, an investigation was started at the laboratory. The people who made the visual observations weren't sure that the object they had seen couldn't have been an airplane. Someone thought that perhaps some type of radar equipment in the airplane, if that's what the object was, might have affected the radiation-detection equipment. So arrangements were made to fly all types of aircraft over the area with their radar in operation. Nothing unusual happened. All possible types of airborne research equipment were traced during similar flights in the hope that some special equipment not normally carried in aircraft would be found to have caused the jump in radiation. But nothing out of the ordinary occurred during these tests either.


The "rock hounds" checked every possible research project that might have produced some stray radiation for their instruments to pick up. They found nothing. They checked and rechecked their instruments, but could find no factor that might have induced false readings. They let other scientists in on their findings, hoping that these outsiders might be able to put their fingers on errors that had been overlooked.

Now, more than a year after the occurrence of the mysterious incidents that they had recorded, a year spent in analyzing their data, the "rock hounds" had no answer.
By the best scientific tests that they had been able to apply, the visual sightings and the high radiation had taken place more or less simultaneously.

[psyche101]

How did incidents that were not green, and not fireballs manage to get classified as green fireballs?

[quillius]

I hope someone can help shed some light here..........

we discuss plasma as having many elements that UFO's do. Ranging from manouverability and/or sometimes appearing as a metalic solid object...

lets look at this answer by Erling Strand:

9/ In a recent interview, you have stated that “…you have had several daytime observations, where you have seen flying discs, etc…”Even if not related to the HP, could you please provide more details on such sightings? I have had only three daytime observations, so the word “several” is wrong. I have however seen several unexplainable “things”, – such which goes into another category than HP or ufo. Two of those three observations was a flying disc. The third was a “black hole”. I did not get the impression that I was looking onto a black object, it was more like a hole into something completely black. This “black hole” changed size all the time.
Thanks Erling for this interview and you success with your Project Hessdalen

my question is this....why does Erling Strand not treat the flying discs he witnessed as possibly the HP? since the HP can take the shape of a saucer etc etc.........

at the moment I tend to think its a bit premature to try and link solid flying objects (not just light sources) as plasma when there is obviously some distinct differences between metalic particles collecting and appearing as a solid object versus some of the flying objects witnessed around the world. At least an expert in the HP thinks there is a difference......

Edited by quillius, 11 December 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[TheMacGuffin]

psyche101, on 11 December 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

How did incidents that were not green, and not fireballs manage to get classified as green fireballs?

That's why I put "Green Fireballs" in quotes, because only some of them were, and this turned out to be an investigation of all kinds of UFOs.

That term "Green Fireballs" is no more accurate than "flying saucer".

[Quaentum]

psyche101, on 11 December 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

The Neagari Meteorite in Japan displayed low levels of radioactivity, but admittedly, it is the only one I know of.

It fell on the boot of a car, and by a rather large coincidence, the car was a "Subaru", "Subaru" is the Japanese word for "Pleiades".

One thing that has me wondering is Pallasite meteorites............ they contain gems such as Olivine Crystal and Peridot.

No wonder it's so hard to find a Pleiadian.  I never thought to look in a Subaru.