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Unbelief, the world’s third-largest religion

unbelief atheists agnostics

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#31    Lion6969

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:12 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 27 December 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:



I see your point, but as an agnostic, I have to disagree.

The agnostic also replaces god with themselves until they come off the fence and decide which side they sit on ;)


#32    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:16 AM

View PostLion6969, on 27 December 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

You see my friend the ones that claim they have not replaced god with themselves ate generally band wagon atheists, they don't actually fully understand it's premises, implications, and philosophical foundations. I was atheist cause I knew and strongly believed in those foundations. Most of them don't realise it, it does not take deep critical thinking and pondering to come to the realisation that removing god from the centre you logically replace him with yourself.

:tu: Well said.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#33    Lion6969

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:16 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 27 December 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:



It does not logically follow. For an atheist, God is a man made phenomenon. It needs replacing with nothing. Maybe you should read about atheists and how they actually see the world rather than just making something up (or simply repeating what someone else made up).

I understand your point, but the notion that god is a man made phenomena is based on a belief unsubstantiated as is gods existence. So because your belief is unsubstantiated, you have nothing to replace god as the centre bit with yourselves. Ie the self becomes god!


#34    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:17 AM

View PostLion6969, on 27 December 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

The agnostic also replaces god with themselves until they come off the fence and decide which side they sit on ;)

No choice is a choice in and of itself.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#35    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:20 AM

True absence of religion and faith is best expressed through agnosticism, but still not fully. As I said, no choice is a choice in and of itself. God's existance can't be proven or proven otherwise, so for aitheists to claim one side is no different than a believer to claim the other. Both take just as much belief and faith.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#36    Rlyeh

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:23 AM

View PostLion6969, on 27 December 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

You see my friend the ones that claim they have not replaced god with themselves ate generally band wagon atheists, they don't actually fully understand it's premises, implications, and philosophical foundations. I was atheist cause I knew and strongly believed in those foundations.
Didn't one time you also claimed to be an evolutionist?

Quote

Most of them don't realise it, it does not take deep critical thinking and pondering to come to the realisation that removing god from the centre you logically replace him with yourself.
God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.


#37    Lion6969

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:24 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 27 December 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:



No choice is a choice in and of itself.

I agree, no choice is a choice. However until one comes off the fence one replaces god with himself.

:)


#38    Lion6969

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:27 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 27 December 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Didn't one time you also claimed to be an evolutionist?

God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.

No I was atheist through and through and as an atheist evolution is essential as it forms the scientific (allegedly) backbone of the atheistic philosophies.

Secondly, at least havoc understands theology and knew god resides at the centre of a devout religious person. You clearly have no idea :)


#39    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 27 December 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.

That is a judgement and claim you cannot make. No one knows the depths of another's sencerity.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#40    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:31 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 27 December 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.

I agree.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
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#41    Rlyeh

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:32 AM

View PostLion6969, on 27 December 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

No I was atheist through and through and as an atheist evolution is essential as it forms the scientific (allegedly) backbone of the atheistic philosophies.
Yet your understanding of it is absolutely pitiful.

Quote

Secondly, at least havoc understands theology and knew god resides at the centre of a devout religious person. You clearly have no idea :)
Pot, meet kettle. :yes:

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 27 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

That is a judgement and claim you cannot make. No one knows the depths of another's sencerity.
I just did. There very foundation is for their benefit, whether it is in this life or the next. Gods that offer little tend to have few believers.

Edited by Rlyeh, 27 December 2012 - 03:36 AM.


#42    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:35 AM

View PostLion6969, on 27 December 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

Secondly, at least havoc understands theology and knew god resides at the centre of a devout religious person.

It's called narcissism-co narcissism (co dependency).  Narcissists are considered natural magnets for the co-dependent.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
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The holy bible
Demonic inspiration

#43    Likely Guy

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:36 AM

View PostLion6969, on 27 December 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:



The agnostic also replaces god with themselves until they come off the fence and decide which side they sit on ;)

No, at least I don't. On the last page Aquila said, "In other words, when you follow no one, you follow yourself."

I follow the rest of humankind, be they religious or atheist. It's central to living in today's society.

Theists can't prove that God exists, Atheists can't prove that God doesn't exist. You descibe it as 'sitting on the fence'. I see it as, neutral. Sort of like Switzerland during WW2 when the rest of the world was going crazy around them.

And Switzerland has never gotten off the metaphorical 'fence'. Nor will it ever. ;)


#44    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:43 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 27 December 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

I just did. There very foundation is for their benefit, whether it is in this life or the next. Gods that offer little tend to have few believers.

Whether God is real or not, to say that one uses that belief only for themselves is a narrow minded statement in and of itself. I'm sure there are many believers who truly do their works for their God, regardless of his existance.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#45    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:46 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 27 December 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Whether God is real or not, to say that one uses that belief only for themselves is a narrow minded statement in and of itself. I'm sure there are many believers who truly do their works for their God, regardless of his existance.

That is what Lion is trying to say about atheists.

Edited by HavocWing, 27 December 2012 - 03:46 AM.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
Jewish gematria # 629:
The holy bible
Demonic inspiration




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