61 replies to this topic

[Beany]

XingWi, on 13 January 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

Or maybe you should attempt to stop being an obsessed stalker and taunting people into arguments. Or how about we both put each other on ignore.


here beany

http://phrontistery.info/worship.html

take it from here. I'm exhausted.

I don't see Seeker as an obsessed stalker, or one who taunts people into arguments. We are each responsible for our own behaviors, and it seems you willingly engaged in dialogue with  him, just as he engaged with you. You don't seem to be a person whom anyone could force to do anything against your will. Thanks for the link, though I'm not sure why it was provided. I think it regard to any spiritual tradition, the use of symbols is common. Cultures that include the yoni & lingam in their spiritual practices are not worshiping the sex organs, instead they are recognizing the differences and complimentary aspects of male & female energy. Symbols are a physical representation of ideas or concepts, which are metaphysical in nature. There are those who see these symbols as literal, when they are not. As for reconciliation, it's not necessary to my spiritual life. I belong to no religion or tradition. My practice is to let spirit inform me, and hope I'm aware and fully conscious when that happens, and understand the intention & meaning.  Best wishes to you.

[XingWi]

Beany, on 13 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

I don't see Seeker as an obsessed stalker, or one who taunts people into arguments. We are each responsible for our own behaviors, and it seems you willingly engaged in dialogue with  him, just as he engaged with you. You don't seem to be a person whom anyone could force to do anything against your will. Thanks for the link, though I'm not sure why it was provided. I think it regard to any spiritual tradition, the use of symbols is common. Cultures that include the yoni & lingam in their spiritual practices are not worshiping the sex organs, instead they are recognizing the differences and complimentary aspects of male & female energy. Symbols are a physical representation of ideas or concepts, which are metaphysical in nature. There are those who see these symbols as literal, when they are not. As for reconciliation, it's not necessary to my spiritual life. I belong to no religion or tradition. My practice is to let spirit inform me, and hope I'm aware and fully conscious when that happens, and understand the intention & meaning.  Best wishes to you.

If someone comes here and out of all the participants picks me and asks me questions that imply that I'm deceived, then I will be forced to respond. Anyway back on topic...

It happens with every single religion in the world (including Christianity)  that, in a certain era, the followers find trouble in presenting certain concepts/rituals to the world and hence they start interpreting things in a new way that can be presented to others, although the ancestors did not interpret them that way. Some of what you said is indeed true but not universal. Live cow is worshipped today and is considered sacred and is not a symbol. Cow urine is drunk as a form of worship as a ritual,  again not a symbol and the urine itself is considered sacred literally. Live snakes are worshipped and their dens are made temples and again not symbols. There is a specific small community in digambara jains where the naked ascetics known as munis are worshiped and some of the religious rituals are directed to their penises (not in all digambara jains and occurs very rarely but it does occur in some regions). Going a step further on the darker side, aghoris perform religious rituals with dead bodies and worship real skulls and bones again not a symbol, a specific art of tantra know as left-hand tantra in which idols are immersed in human urine and feces and then worshipped, urine and feces again not a symbol. In the last two examples the concept is more like rival gods or rival spirits etc. and the worshippers deliberately choose the dark side.

In my opinion, such worships/rituals are just a sort of mid-phase to the opposite side. And by opposite I mean deliberate desecration of the image of God or an insult to Him. I know many here do not believe in the light-dark concept but I do. You are of course entitled to disagree or interpret the things I mentioned in a way that makes sense to you. And I will do it in a way that makes sense to me. Although I see you tend to look at things in a bit overly positive manner and this is a compliment. But I'm happy to embrace the title of narrow minded fundamentalist for now.

Maybe we will discuss more on this someday. Until then...

Take care.

Edited by XingWi, 13 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.

[Blueogre2]

To me, God would have to be greater than just the sum total of the natural world, he would have to be above and beyond everything that we know or could ever hope to know. He is the ALL in ALL, or as the bible puts it the I AM.

[Beany]

there will always be odd and extreme religious practices, but that's not the norm by which any particular religion should be judged. In regard to my optimism, well, I have a firm partnership with spirit. If I come to harm it will be because of my own stupidity than that of spirit. I trust implicitly, and have never personally run into anything that I perceived as negative or harmful, and I've run into a lot of things. I'm not saying that negative entities don't exist, just that I've never personally experienced them, nor do I expect to. I trust in the loving arms of divinity/intelligent energy and live free of fear.

[SpiritWriter]

Beany, on 13 January 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

there will always be odd and extreme religious practices, but that's not the norm by which any particular religion should be judged. In regard to my optimism, well, I have a firm partnership with spirit. If I come to harm it will be because of my own stupidity than that of spirit. I trust implicitly, and have never personally run into anything that I perceived as negative or harmful, and I've run into a lot of things. I'm not saying that negative entities don't exist, just that I've never personally experienced them, nor do I expect to. I trust in the loving arms of divinity/intelligent energy and live free of fear.

Im glad beany... there are negative entities though... there is a lot of diversity in the physical as well as the spiritual. Its hard to imagine the jungle if youve been on a cold mountain all your life for example...

Edit...Or a better example its hard to imagine a robber creeping into your house while your asleep if youve always had armed guards at the entry ways... sounds like youve always been protected... I have too, but ive seen a little bit of it.

God is good

Edited by SpiritWriter, 14 January 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Seeker79]

SpiritWriter, on 14 January 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

Im glad beany... there are negative entities though... there is a lot of diversity in the physical as well as the spiritual. Its hard to imagine the jungle if youve been on a cold mountain all your life for example...

Edit...Or a better example its hard to imagine a robber creeping into your house while your asleep if youve always had armed guards at the entry ways... sounds like youve always been protected... I have too, but ive seen a little bit of it.

God is good

I know where you are comeing from.... But, what if it is such deep evolutionary process for your soul to look past negativity instead of acknowledge it. I'll say this, I have walked the walk.. Negativity is human not spirit. Our job is to put it down in one way or another like many here have done in our own ways, but do we really have to anthropomorphisize it. If anyone here has done an actual vision quest, you would know that in the dark in the woods on your 1st and 2nd night all manor of "demons" come for you. The 3rd night is usually peaceful. This is a deep personal conflict. Just read about when sidartha faced the hords of Mara or when Jesus faced the devil in the desert.  It's the same story time and time again... And im confident because i have been there, and everyone has  access to the same experiences and the same revelation.

I keep writing more then erasing it ... Then more and  earasing it.... I just don't know what to say anymore. I don't want to invalidate anyone's experiences I treasure other people's knowledge, but the whole demon thing is just a part of oursves that we cannot let go. A colossal failure of group conciousness.

[sutemi]

What is God? Answer, everything. God is omnipresent, so giving a gender to ‘IT’ is ridiculous. ‘Nature’ is a good call but perhaps doesn’t fully cover everything. Do we really understand ‘omnipresent’? The fairly recent finding of Dark Energy (1998/9) may give us a hint; it is 75% of everything! And Dark energy is not far off somewhere, it is 75% of the room you are sitting in! What if the answer like many Zen teachings shocked you and challenged your concepts? So bearing in mind ‘Omnipresence’ here’s a Chinese teaching from 4/500bc that might shock you (hope fully not too much) but never the less is true.

Tung-kuo asked the great teacher Chuang Tzu,” This thing called God where does it exist?”

‘Chuang Tzu said, "There's no place it doesn't exist."
"Come," said Tung-kuo, "you must be more specific!"
"It is in the ant." said Chuang Tzu
"As low a thing as that?"
"It is in the grass." said Chuang Tzu
"But that's lower still!"
"It is in the tiles and shards." Said Chuang Tzu
"How can it be so low?"
"It is in the urine and excreta!" said Chuang Tzu

Tung-Kuo made no reply.

The very fabric of time and space is God, everything, everything clean or dirty because all is One. You cannot understand it, but through focusing your attention that goes outward all day long, through practicing a quality meditation you can BE it. As all the great teachers have said, ‘look within’, ‘Know thy self’.

‘The fish are thirsty in the water and when I hear this it makes me laugh’ Kabir

Edited by sutemi, 14 January 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[SpiritWriter]

Seeker79, on 14 January 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

I know where you are comeing from.... But, what if it is such deep evolutionary process for your soul to look past negativity instead of acknowledge it. I'll say this, I have walked the walk.. Negativity is human not spirit. Our job is to put it down in one way or another like many here have done in our own ways, but do we really have to anthropomorphisize it. If anyone here has done an actual vision quest, you would know that in the dark in the woods on your 1st and 2nd night all manor of "demons" come for you. The 3rd night is usually peaceful. This is a deep personal conflict. Just read about when sidartha faced the hords of Mara or when Jesus faced the devil in the desert.  It's the same story time and time again... And im confident because i have been there, and everyone has  access to the same experiences and the same revelation.

I keep writing more then erasing it ... Then more and  earasing it.... I just don't know what to say anymore. I don't want to invalidate anyone's experiences I treasure other people's knowledge, but the whole demon thing is just a part of oursves that we cannot let go. A colossal failure of group conciousness.

I was meditating once and I saw a dead man in my spirit and I was deathly afraid I was about to stop but god told me to continue with the vision. The dead man was pulled out of me, from my guts he came out. I know this sounds nasty but it felt like I just took a (cleansing) number two.... where he came out, in my body there was a giant hole and my body was like the earth. From it a root came and then agiant tree grew...

This is the soul work your talking about and I get it. However I do not believe negativity is not spirit and I know for cettain that these entities, although the have everything to do with influencing us, are not human and not 'ourselves'. I have seen things that are impossible to explain with that rationale. I do believe that all things work together and since you have dealt with your spirituality in your manner there is much to be gleaned from that and that is great. But not all people experience the same things and cant be convinced totally in anothers theory because it cant fit with what the know.

You teach to overcome fear and thats great because I also feel we shouldnt fear them. Anyway im about to type and erase too but I guess I dont know how to impart to you what I know... its ok we view it differently. I think thats just life. I need to be in my possition and you need to be in yours. Many people speak of the truth and say it can only be one way or the other but then we also see there are many truths which held by the believer are 100% justifiable. I really agree with diversity in spirituality, a variety of paths. Each person comes incontact with 'a way' but that way is also made thiers alone. Thats why i use that jung quote down there... my god is the circumference of all those things. Reading your posts ive learned something from you... you probably havent learned anything from me because youve heard it all before (I suppose) this is the first time ive been to a site like this... thankyou for sharing but its impossible for me to believe entities, good bad holy or evil dont exist.. what if their function was the same as what you are talking about but indeed that were true.. that could be...

[Seeker79]

SpiritWriter, on 14 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I was meditating once and I saw a dead man in my spirit and I was deathly afraid I was about to stop but god told me to continue with the vision. The dead man was pulled out of me, from my guts he came out. I know this sounds nasty but it felt like I just took a (cleansing) number two.... where he came out, in my body there was a giant hole and my body was like the earth. From it a root came and then agiant tree grew...

This is the soul work your talking about and I get it. However I do not believe negativity is not spirit and I know for cettain that these entities, although the have everything to do with influencing us, are not human and not 'ourselves'. I have seen things that are impossible to explain with that rationale. I do believe that all things work together and since you have dealt with your spirituality in your manner there is much to be gleaned from that and that is great. But not all people experience the same things and cant be convinced totally in anothers theory because it cant fit with what the know.

You teach to overcome fear and thats great because I also feel we shouldnt fear them. Anyway im about to type and erase too but I guess I dont know how to impart to you what I know... its ok we view it differently. I think thats just life. I need to be in my possition and you need to be in yours. Many people speak of the truth and say it can only be one way or the other but then we also see there are many truths which held by the believer are 100% justifiable. I really agree with diversity in spirituality, a variety of paths. Each person comes incontact with 'a way' but that way is also made thiers alone. Thats why i use that jung quote down there... my god is the circumference of all those things. Reading your posts ive learned something from you... you probably havent learned anything from me because youve heard it all before (I suppose) this is the first time ive been to a site like this... thankyou for sharing but its impossible for me to believe entities, good bad holy or evil dont exist.. what if their function was the same as what you are talking about but indeed that were true.. that could be...

That's not true, I have learned from you aswell.

[SpiritWriter]

[Beany]

Could demons and such be thought forms that are manifestations of one's fears and/or negative thinking? I can't invalidate the experiences of another person because I haven't myself experienced them, but I'm interested in the genesis of negative entities. It's quite common to see demons, djinns, etc. in old paintings, but I think they are considered to be allegoric rather than actual beings, although I've looked at several Christian websites that declare demons to be fallen angels, and are not imaginary or fictitious beings. Here's a definition of thought forms I found on the net: are literally IDEAS and EMOTIONS which have been built-up and so energized by some human mind as to become quite vivid and powerful-enough to impress themselves upon the mind and eye. I haven't been able to find many non-Christian websites that talk about demons, but did find one that talks about early man believing disease was caused by demons. Since Christianity was built on the back of paganism, I'm wondering if the belief in demons was another pre-Christian belief that became incorporated into the religion. Here's what I found on the net, it's not much, I'll need to do more research: Primitive man looked on disease as a curse cast on him by an evil spirit; his treatment consisted of driving out the demon that possessed him.  http://www.pbs.org/w...inghistory.html

Edited by Beany, 14 January 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[SpiritWriter]

Beany, on 14 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Could demons and such be thought forms that are manifestations of one's fears and/or negative thinking? I can't invalidate the experiences of another person because I haven't myself experienced them, but I'm interested in the genesis of negative entities. It's quite common to see demons, djinns, etc. in old paintings, but I think they are considered to be allegoric rather than actual beings, although I've looked at several Christian websites that declare demons to be fallen angels, and are not imaginary or fictitious beings. Here's a definition of thought forms I found on the net: are literally IDEAS and EMOTIONS which have been built-up and so energized by some human mind as to become quite vivid and powerful-enough to impress themselves upon the mind and eye. I haven't been able to find many non-Christian websites that talk about demons, but did find one that talks about early man believing disease was caused by demons. Since Christianity was built on the back of paganism, I'm wondering if the belief in demons was another pre-Christian belief that became incorporated into the religion. Here's what I found on the net, it's not much, I'll need to do more research: Primitive man looked on disease as a curse cast on him by an evil spirit; his treatment consisted of driving out the demon that possessed him.  http://www.pbs.org/w...inghistory.html

I came across um because I was doing a search on demons I was interested in stories af them. I went to a metaphysical book store and asked if they had any books on experiences of these and the lady got highly offended.. apparently according to her demons are a christian concept and because of the mindsef of those that run the store christian experience type books arent what they seek to include there.. not only that but actually I havent seen many books or any books for that matter specific to 'experiences' except for those that seem hoaky...  i dont agree that it is christian experience btw... christian is just a title imo, it is a spiritual experience and now i know that these things have been seen and experienced across the board. I was very excited when I came across the shadow ppl thread here.. thats when I first joined. I finally saw that a lot of people have seen the type of figures that I have seen.. that was a relief and confirmation for me. I am not the only one I know in real life who have come across these things but to see it was such a phenomena was nice.. I dont personally think these are thoughts projected into the physical. I do think they are spirits projected into the physical... I guess we could say this is the wrong thread for this though.... lol


If you havent read the demons or shadow people threads you should have a look at them. They wont answer any questions for you though imo... just something to know that other people have seen or experienced (sometimes very badly). You have to come tour own conclusions about if you think they are projected thoughts, real, hallucinations etc... if you never experienced it probably reads like a star magazine or something...

I havent been there for a while but I think some members posted links to further info about them...


On topic: is god nature???? Hmm. I think so.  

[Beany]

SpiritWriter, on 14 January 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

I came across um because I was doing a search on demons I was interested in stories af them. I went to a metaphysical book store and asked if they had any books on experiences of these and the lady got highly offended.. apparently according to her demons are a christian concept and because of the mindsef of those that run the store christian experience type books arent what they seek to include there.. not only that but actually I havent seen many books or any books for that matter specific to 'experiences' except for those that seem hoaky...  i dont agree that it is christian experience btw... christian is just a title imo, it is a spiritual experience and now i know that these things have been seen and experienced across the board. I was very excited when I came across the shadow ppl thread here.. thats when I first joined. I finally saw that a lot of people have seen the type of figures that I have seen.. that was a relief and confirmation for me. I am not the only one I know in real life who have come across these things but to see it was such a phenomena was nice.. I dont personally think these are thoughts projected into the physical. I do think they are spirits projected into the physical... I guess we could say this is the wrong thread for this though.... lol


If you havent read the demons or shadow people threads you should have a look at them. They wont answer any questions for you though imo... just something to know that other people have seen or experienced (sometimes very badly). You have to come tour own conclusions about if you think they are projected thoughts, real, hallucinations etc... if you never experienced it probably reads like a star magazine or something...

I havent been there for a while but I think some members posted links to further info about them...


On topic: is god nature???? Hmm. I think so.  

It's really kind of a loaded question, because it presumes the existence of God, and kind of sets up the conversation in those terms. I think more of a universal informed intelligence that's contained within us and also exists outside of us, like the soup we swim in and the soup that swims in us. I was thinking about the cells in our body and how we start out as a small cluster of undifferentiated cells that continue to divide and eventually become differentiated and begin to form skin, organs, etc., and maybe what some people call god is like an undifferentiated cell that holds all the potential to create a human being. I'm not saying god is a cell, but that the potentiality is the same, and the setup is the same.

I have never seen any demons or anything that scares me, but most people have never seen any of the things I have, so I have to admit the possibility. I looked at some of the threads you mentioned, some of the posts are interesting, I was hoping for something a little more objective. It seems demons and the like have been present in folklore the same way little people have, or Big Foot, or even ETs. I just can't wrap my head around how or where or if they fit in with humanity, mostly because I have trouble  thinking about how they came into being or what part they have in the "soup we swim in." And when I head in that direction I'm going directly into my own personal ignorance and into the territory of unfounded belief, which is what I'm trying to stay out of, unfounded belief.

[Ciss]

Beany, on 14 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Could demons and such be thought forms that are manifestations of one's fears and/or negative thinking? I can't invalidate the experiences of another person because I haven't myself experienced them, but I'm interested in the genesis of negative entities. It's quite common to see demons, djinns, etc. in old paintings, but I think they are considered to be allegoric rather than actual beings, although I've looked at several Christian websites that declare demons to be fallen angels, and are not imaginary or fictitious beings. Here's a definition of thought forms I found on the net: are literally IDEAS and EMOTIONS which have been built-up and so energized by some human mind as to become quite vivid and powerful-enough to impress themselves upon the mind and eye. I haven't been able to find many non-Christian websites that talk about demons, but did find one that talks about early man believing disease was caused by demons. Since Christianity was built on the back of paganism, I'm wondering if the belief in demons was another pre-Christian belief that became incorporated into the religion. Here's what I found on the net, it's not much, I'll need to do more research: Primitive man looked on disease as a curse cast on him by an evil spirit; his treatment consisted of driving out the demon that possessed him.  http://www.pbs.org/w...inghistory.html

Well, in the book of Revelations there is the beast that was and yet is not, how can it be and not be at the same time? I would think if we could give life to an image of a beast so much so that people have spent decades fearing it to the point some just know it's real, it's not too far fetched to say we can do the same with conjuring images of demons and such...

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not;
Rev. 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not,

[Zaphod222]

KevinT, on 09 January 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

I would like to post a topic on GOD,
Do I believe in GOD, I like to think I do, but I’m not to sure.
Only place I have studied GOD and religion was back in school.
There may be supernatural forces at work, or its just NATURE bringing order and balance to the world.
But over the years, I have basic theorized that NATURE is GOD.

You have just discovered Baruch Spinoza, and all on your own.
Good job. However, if you had done some basic reading on philosphy, you could have saved the effort of re-inventing the wheel :-)