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Bush, Mae and the Financial Crisis


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#16    Merc14

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

Barney Frank denying there is a bubble in the housing market


Edited by Merc14, 08 October 2012 - 11:00 PM.

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#17    Tiggs

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:02 PM

View PostMerc14, on 08 October 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

Ar you serious? Youy want to debate on whetehr or not government backed mortgage debt had anything to do with the housing market collapse and trillions in toxic debt?  You can't just look it up?  It is a 4 year old story with books written on it.  WHat is there to defend?

I'm totally serious.

From the conclusions of the official Government inquiry:


We conclude that these two entities contributed to the crisis, but were not a primary cause. Importantly, GSE mortgage securities essentially maintained their value throughout the crisis and did not contribute to the significant financial firm losses that were central to the financial crisis.


#18    Merc14

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:04 PM

http://www.marketora...Article383.html

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#19    Merc14

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

View PostTiggs, on 08 October 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

I'm totally serious.

From the conclusions of the official Government inquiry:


We conclude that these two entities contributed to the crisis, but were not a primary cause. Importantly, GSE mortgage securities essentially maintained their value throughout the crisis and did not contribute to the significant financial firm losses that were central to the financial crisis.

You are cherry picking data.
A combination of excessive borrowing, risky investments, and lack of transparency put the financial system on a collision course with crisis."
The inquiry found that in the years leading up to the crisis, American households, and institutions, borrowed too much and saved too little.
"When the housing and mortgage markets cratered, the lack of transparency, the extraordinary debt loads, the short-term loans, and the risky assets all came home to roost. What resulted was panic," the report reads. "We had reaped what we had sown."

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#20    Tiggs

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:41 PM

View PostMerc14, on 08 October 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Here is a great summation in 4 minutes


Which part of those video's exactly do you believe proves that the GSE's were the central cause of the financial crisis?.

Because all I'm seeing is clips of Congress discussing accounting reform bills for the GSE's that never made it out of committee.


#21    Tiggs

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostMerc14, on 08 October 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

You are cherry picking data.
A combination of excessive borrowing, risky investments, and lack of transparency put the financial system on a collision course with crisis."

The inquiry found that in the years leading up to the crisis, American households, and institutions, borrowed too much and saved too little.
"When the housing and mortgage markets cratered, the lack of transparency, the extraordinary debt loads, the short-term loans, and the risky assets all came home to roost. What resulted was panic," the report reads. "We had reaped what we had sown."

And what part of that, exactly, do you think refers to the GSE's?


#22    Merc14

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:00 AM

View PostTiggs, on 08 October 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

And what part of that, exactly, do you think refers to the GSE's?

Simple version:  In the 90's it was decreed by congress that mortgages would be made available to people who were not qualified for those mortgages.  The loans would be guaranteed by the federal government through Fannie and Freddie.  Those loans became the seed of the massive housing bubble that grew through the next decade.  Many saw the dangers with this and the GSE's became dangerously overleveraged and little or no oversight was given by the feds.  See the videos above but hey, Uncle Sucker can just print money so who cares.  Derivatives and other strange financial entities came into being and loans that would never be aid back were packaged with government protected debt and traded internationally.  When the bubble finally burst it began the collapse of  the US economy.  There was other factors, of course, but the GSE backed mortgages which became the basis of the overinflated real estate market were a core factor.

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#23    The Mule

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:11 AM

View PostMerc14, on 09 October 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

Simple version:  In the 90's it was decreed by congress that mortgages would be made available to people who were not qualified for those mortgages.  The loans would be guaranteed by the federal government through Fannie and Freddie.  Those loans became the seed of the massive housing bubble that grew through the next decade.  Many saw the dangers with this and the GSE's became dangerously overleveraged and little or no oversight was given by the feds.  See the videos above but hey, Uncle Sucker can just print money so who cares.  Derivatives and other strange financial entities came into being and loans that would never be aid back were packaged with government protected debt and traded internationally.  When the bubble finally burst it began the collapse of  the US economy.  There was other factors, of course, but the GSE backed mortgages which became the basis of the overinflated real estate market were a core factor.

You mean the GOP controlled House and Senate of 94-00?

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#24    Merc14

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:30 AM

View PostThe Mule, on 09 October 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

You mean the GOP controlled House and Senate of 94-00?

Do your own study if you want to play.

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#25    The Mule

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:33 AM

I already know the answer. You just blamed the GOP. Nice playing.

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#26    Merc14

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:43 AM

View PostThe Mule, on 09 October 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

I already know the answer. You just blamed the GOP. Nice playing.

I blamed the act itself and both sides had a hand in it but having lived through the thing, and knowing it was a disaster in the making, the finger pointing you are doing is disingenuous.  The press was crucifying reps who didn't back this Clinton initiative and congress folded.


1977 - Democratic President Jimmy Carter Passes "Community Reinvestment Act," or CRA, designed to encourage banks to reach out to low income communities by offering loans to minorities and the poor.
1995 - Democratic President Bill Clinton revises CRA by making banks meet a quota for a certain number of low income loans. He also increases punishment for banks that dont loan enough money to low income borrowers. This forces banks to write lots of loans that they would not otherwise have written, because the government is forcing them to.
1999 - Democratic President Bill Clinton signs and endorses the "Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act," or GLBA, designed to make banks profitable in good economic times, as well as poor economic times. The bill allows consumer banks (think checking accounts, savings accounts, etc..) to merge with insurance companies and investment companies, so they all can make money. BUT for a bank to qualify to be a part of the program, you had to have a high CRA score, meaning that you had to have a lot of loans written to low income people. The government was effectively telling banks that if they wanted to be allowed to make money off of the investments of the rich, that they had to also be lending money to the poor. Nice in theory, but look where it has gotten us. Now we are a nation with a bunch of people losing homes they never could afford, and a bunch of banks collapsing bc nobody can pay them back! Thanks Democrats!y


Note: Gramm Leach and Bliley are Republicans. This Republican sponsored bill was voted for in the majority by Republicans. It may be therefore disingenuous to characterize this Republican bill as a Democratic leadership failure given that it would not have existed without Republicans.


Now, are you trying to say that the democrats had nothing to do with subprime mortgages?

Edited by Merc14, 09 October 2012 - 01:43 AM.

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#27    The Mule

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:48 AM

You want to go back and blame Columbus while your at it?

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#28    Merc14

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:55 AM

View PostThe Mule, on 09 October 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

You want to go back and blame Columbus while your at it?


Umm what?  Do you have a point to make or are you just trying to...well, I don't exactly know what you are trying to do.   :hmm: Some people's kids, I tell ya.  LMAO

Are you suffering from Post Debate Stress Disorder by any chance??   There is a lot of that going around.

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Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#29    The Mule

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:57 AM

I didnt force you to implicate your idols. You did it all on your own.

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#30    pbarosso

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:32 AM

trying to blame this on one party or another is waste of time and is wrong quite frankly. the american people are to blame for extravagant living which existed on borrowed funds and crazy optimism....a bubble. it happened in japan in the late 80's.

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