31 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

www.dailymail.co.uk said:

With her steering jammed and her speed slashed by torpedo attacks, the Bismarck and her crew of 2,200 were a sitting duck for the Royal Navy.

And in two hours the German battleship was a helpless wreck of twisted metal,  raging fires and dead and dying crew.

But the ship’s agony was not over.After the bombardment by British battleships, she was finished off by torpedoes, slipping under the Atlantic with all but 200 of those aboard.

For the Royal Navy it was a triumph –  revenge for the Bismarck’s destruction of the pride of the fleet, HMS Hood, days earlier.

But the son of one of the British sailors who saw Bismarck’s end 70 years ago today has come forward to claim that the battle might have ended very differently – because the German crew tried to surrender at the height of the bombardment.

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[The New Richard Nixon]

No should of blown it up.

[bulveye]

Yes, the Germans made it sound like an unsinkable fortress, once we sank it then it took a chunk out of their national pride and huge chunk out of their navy fleet. Besides, some reports say we only crippled it, I think 2 of the 3 survivors said they rigged explosives and blew the ship up from the inside to stop it being captured.

[danielost]

in one of the docs.  one of the engineers of the bismark gave credit to both navies.  ie the british had hit it enough that it was going down and they skuttled it themselves.

[aquatus1]

"Should" they have sunk it?

They were in the middle of a battle in the middle of a war.  "Should" isn't really the operative word.

They had orders to sink it, and they had excellent reasons for doing so.  The PR value alone was incalculable.

[danielost]

aquatus1, on 27 May 2011 - 09:55 PM, said:

"Should" they have sunk it?

They were in the middle of a battle in the middle of a war.  "Should" isn't really the operative word.

They had orders to sink it, and they had excellent reasons for doing so.  The PR value alone was incalculable.

besides they didnt know it was disabled.  they may have thought it was, but they didnt know for sure.

[Robbie333]

That is a great question. I think the answer should be marked by another question. What would the Germans had done if the position was reversed?

[danielost]

Robbie333, on 27 May 2011 - 10:16 PM, said:

That is a great question. I think the answer should be marked by another question. What would the Germans had done if the position was reversed?

dont know, the only ship the germans sunk with the bizmark was sunk basically by a single shot and it blew up.

[Doctor_Strangelove]

We'll find the German battleship that's makin' such a fuss
We gotta sink the Bismarck cause the world depends on us
Yeah hit the decks a runnin' boys and spin those guns around
When we find the Bismarck we gotta cut her down

The song speaks for itself.

Robbie333, on 27 May 2011 - 10:16 PM, said:

That is a great question. I think the answer should be marked by another question. What would the Germans had done if the position was reversed?

It's interesting, because there were instances of German U-boats rescuing the sailors of the ship they had just torpedoed. Not saying that means they would have spared the ship if it were the British, but just something to consider.

[hetrodoxly]

I've never heard a Bismark survivor mention the ship had surrendered.

[danielost]

Doctor_Strangelove, on 28 May 2011 - 02:53 AM, said:

We'll find the German battleship that's makin' such a fuss
We gotta sink the Bismarck cause the world depends on us
Yeah hit the decks a runnin' boys and spin those guns around
When we find the Bismarck we gotta cut her down

The song speaks for itself.

It's interesting, because there were instances of German U-boats rescuing the sailors of the ship they had just torpedoed. Not saying that means they would have spared the ship if it were the British, but just something to consider.

they did, until a slight communcation snaffu in which an american unit attacked a sub rescueing crew from a ship they had just sunk.  after which hitler ordered no more rescues.

[Robbie333]

Doctor_Strangelove, on 28 May 2011 - 02:53 AM, said:

We'll find the German battleship that's makin' such a fuss
We gotta sink the Bismarck cause the world depends on us
Yeah hit the decks a runnin' boys and spin those guns around
When we find the Bismarck we gotta cut her down

The song speaks for itself.

It's interesting, because there were instances of German U-boats rescuing the sailors of the ship they had just torpedoed. Not saying that means they would have spared the ship if it were the British, but just something to consider.

      Hmm, that is interesting Dr. I was not aware of that bit of info, thanks.

[bunji]

well all i gotta say is acting like this was some sort of atrocity is ridiculous. its war not to mention the anger and outrage at the time about the holocaust. even if they did try to surrender i don't think the people manning the other ships would have cared. trying to make a scandal out of it now is just plain stupid.

[danielost]

bunji, on 29 May 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

well all i gotta say is acting like this was some sort of atrocity is ridiculous. its war not to mention the anger and outrage at the time about the holocaust. even if they did try to surrender i don't think the people manning the other ships would have cared. trying to make a scandal out of it now is just plain stupid.

we didnt know about the holocaust at the time of the war.  we didnt know until we entered the first death camp.

something i just learned, the last battle was a two day event. meaning the bizmark had plenty of time to strike her colors.


Bismarck continued to fly its ensign. With no sign of surrender, despite the unequal struggle, the British were loath to leave the Bismarck. Their fuel and shell supplies were low - a demonstration of how difficult it was for a battleship to sink a similar unit in a balanced engagement. However, when it became obvious that their enemy could not reach port, Rodney, King George V and the destroyers were sent home. Norfolk had used its last torpedoes; therefore, Dorsetshire launched four torpedoes which may have hit the Bismarck at comparatively short range. Although the battleship's upper works were almost completely destroyed, her engines were still functioning and the hull appeared to be relatively sound; therefore, rather than risk her being captured, Captain Lindemann gave the order to scuttle and then abandon ship[citation needed]. Most of the crew went into the water, but few sailors from the lower engine spaces got out alive.

Bismarck went under the waves at 10:39 hours that morning. Dorsetshire and Maori attempted to rescue survivors, but a U-boat alarm caused them to leave the scene after having rescued only 110 Bismarck sailors, abandoning the majority of Bismarck's 2,200 man crew to the mercy of the water. The next morning, U-74, dispatched to try and rescue Bismarck’s logbook (and which heard sinking noises from a distance), and the German weather ship Sachsenwald picked up five survivors.



http://en.wikipedia....of_the_Bismarck

Edited by danielost, 29 May 2011 - 02:52 PM.

[Doctor_Strangelove]

bunji, on 29 May 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

well all i gotta say is acting like this was some sort of atrocity is ridiculous. its war not to mention the anger and outrage at the time about the holocaust. even if they did try to surrender i don't think the people manning the other ships would have cared. trying to make a scandal out of it now is just plain stupid.

Almost no one knew about the death camps, Allies or Axis. They were aware of the prosecution of people, and a few had knowledge of the camp's existence, but the majority of the public had no clue. Contrary to what Hollywood wants you to believe, WWII wasn't solely about the Holocaust.